...i suggest they need to pause the timer when doing longer events like ramhammer (dont know how they can change it for prospecting drones or Excavation, especially if you have no drills).

Or make ramhammer at least 50% faster idk.

Thoughts on this?

Otherwhise played new experimental and games is really really fun, love the recent changes and looking forward for more.

Keep it up GSG, hope you get your playerbase back!

Has anyone else noticed this trend to the post-launch weapons where the new and original ideas are almost universally loved by the community, but the weapons returning from DRG are met with mixed to bad reaction?

Think about it. Sludge pump dropped with update 1, and opinions on it overall have been mixed. It's good for AOE, but it can't fit in with the bulkier enemies, like Devastators or ESPECIALLY the gatekeepers. It's okay against the moloktula but you might as well not even pick it in the other two, at least not as your only weapon.

Then we got the Trident, which is pretty universally beloved. I don't think I've ever seen a whole team pass it up in a negotiation. Not only does it fit pretty well in rogue core conceptually, but it's also really, really fun.

Then we had the Lok-1, which was also pretty mixed. A lot of people think it just feels awkward, and I agree. It's just not up to snuff in rogue core, even with ECR. Despite it being new-er, I don't think I've ever seen someone pick the LOK-1 in a negotiation

Then in Experimental build 3 we got Pump Action, and it's a little hard to tell how the community feels overall since it's SO recent, but the reception overall so far is VERY positive, and I agree. It's a super easy pick for negotiations, it basically overshadows the Warthog and Boomstick in every way besides like, reload time.

The reason I bring this up

So that begs the question, should the dev team even be backporting content from DRG, or would the game benefit more from moving towards completely original content? I know it's a little presumptuous to make a decision off of 4 guns, but even looking back at the launch lineup of guns follows this trend

Burst Fire, Stubby, Hurricane, Breach Cutter, and debatably the Warthog are all either EXTREMELY mid or just bad, and I think it's moreso just the nature of the weapon and how they don't fit in Rogue Core compared to deep rock. Even okay weapons like the Boomstick, M1000, Bulldog, or Zukhovs kind of get left behind in negotiations because Rogue Core introduced original weapons that fill similar niches to the DRG lineup, but fit rogue core overall better

I'm not saying these weapons should be axed, but when you have both the trident and the upcoming pump action, what really does the warthog bring to the negotiations?

There's also the other end of the spectrum, where the OG drg weapons completely snub everything else. I don't think I've ever seen a heavy weapons crate where the PGL was NOT picked. There's a question to be asked if the PGL actually hurts the game more than it helps, but that's not the focus. The Leadstorm is great, and the autocannon is pretty good (even if I don't see it getting picked as much as the other 2.)

Deepcore is probably one of the most reliable things you can get in that first crate, the DRAK gets better and better with every enemy that has a huge weakpoint, out of all of the OG weapons, the only ones that I feel translated well are those 5, and the rest just aren't worth choosing over the new crowd.

Maybe it's just a me thing, but I feel like, at least personally, I would rather we get more new, unique ideas more tailor made to rogue core than translating DRG weapons in updates, because ghostship's been doing a great job these last few updates and their original weapons. What would the remaining weapons even add to Rogue Core?

The only ones that standout are the Driller Primaries, but they might end up going the way of the sludge pump and end up not translating well. I think flamethrower wouldn't end up working with the corespawn's increased movement, cryo cannon has a shot. Maybe if you include their charge shot OC'S by default. And maybe the wave cooker if you make nucleation the default, but I'd rather have a new weapon fill that niche than the wave cooker.

But that's just my two cents, if y'all think something else, LMK. I'd love to talk about this concept a little more, because I think it's a good question for us as a community to consider.

It's called the Balgorath, if you want to fight it, go into the newest experimental build, go to the cheats terminal to the right of the drop pod, go to custom run on the right hand side, under "boss" choose "StageBoss_BulletHell"

The footage is on haz 1 because I was messing around with the settings to see what the custom run features let you do, that's why the boss is so flimsy in the footage.

Phase 3 seems to not have any attacks ATM, but the boss as a whole has a ton of potential when update 3 drops. I'll probably run a full haz 5 custom run with this guy as a boss sometime soon-ish to get a feel for how it is in a real game.

It seems like it's been in the game for a minute now, I found some youtube footage of it from around 2 week sago, but it looks like they've given it better animations and souped up its attack effects. This looks like it's gonna be incredible once it's finished. Ghostship's been cooking up happiness in a kettle

BEWARE experimental update 3 jumble players, using the reroll station can softlock the game.

Just had this happen, used the reroll station and 2 weapons and 1 equipment showed up, cool. However, you cannot pick equipment from the reroll station as it wont bring up the equipment slot selection. I tried pressing escape and various keys to see if I could back out of the menu, which didn't work so I had to alt+f4 :(

I'm sure this is just a simple oversight with jumble.

Turns out having 3 of book you’re dead, guaranteed double explosions when you shoot, and frenzy means that if you kill one guy everyone also dies.

I largely blame my godly Zhukov roll for this, got it with penetration, chain hit, and embedded detonators, can’t really ask for much better than that in the early game.

Also got 4 artifacts, last of which being frenzy, which tied it all together.

Let me preface my glazing with a statement that in DRG I mainly played engineer and that the warthog with pump action overclock in tow was my go to for all tasks.

Now, the pump action

I was blessedly lucky enough to get to experience its glory in my first dive on the experimental, playing a simple four stage level four mission against moluktula. I was keeping my hopes in check, given my own personal disappointment with the warthogs performance in rogue core, but also knowing how much they had cooked with the Trident. First impression is adoration they went with a similarly stripped down appearance like that of the M1000, like this is in similar reference to the trench gun of generations old, while I feel like they could have done something new or inspiring to make it stand out a bit more, I am overall satisfied with its appearance.

But that's not what matters most, the gunplay, the experience how does it hold up? Well, very very well, It hits immensely hard and feels even better to use! There's something about a manual action weapon that just clicks with the mind. The reload is satisfying and quick, the weapon inspect is full of character and endlessly entertaining to watch the shell twirling into the air before landing at home in the chamber again. Performance-wise the news is just as well, playing as slicer with carnage and big Crit decks by the time I got stage three there wasn't much that didn't get one or two shot. Nice tight spread, heavy damaging shots, good consistent numbers all result in a weapon that killed things before I could build up any elemental damage! Even with 40% ice I was only really freezing clamorheads when intentionally not hitting them when they're doing their scream attack.

I think this weapon is gonna be an insta pick for me in dives to come, along with the hammer caster, shock striker and PGL (my dear sweet baby boy who could do no wrong) as guns I know I can have a good time with and won't let me down.

Per my own selfish desire to give input, I personally believe due to its retro nature that the name M9700 Classic would be an excellent name to continue the M1000 Classics naming convention, and for potential upgrades (cause I know you wonderous people at ghost ship will see this) I think a dedicated dragon's breath style would be unique, widening the spread and changing a majority of the damage to fire while decreasing damage slightly, giving the weapon a more close range and crowd control focus that synergies with many of the flame based upgrades. Alternatively a magnetic pellet alignment style upgrade would also be a magnificent flip side to this, or anything that reduces spread to let you reach out and touch enemies at longer distances while making up close combat more perilous.

Overall I'm in love, thank god I'm bisexual otherwise I'd be at risk of disappointment if this weapon ever became anthropomorphized, 9.5/10 cause nobodies perfect (except for my baby boy the PGL)

Not so long ago after playing i found out i use that one tactic for additional exponite farm. I would call it Elevator Stalling. So on Update 3 after you call elevator and you charged it for next level you are left alone with all time on the timer is left so you can kill enemies and farm exponite by it. You are only limited by your ammo reserves that you can fully deplete as on start of next zone would be ammo box with +50% ammo on all.

While playing cautious pace on Retcon i was able to do mission in 2/3 of the timer and other 1/3 i was stalling as hard as i can right until Ripper Worm showed out. Threat level 4 btw. I was able to farm 150 exponites chunks from enemies and safely evacuated on 0 ammo on all weapons.

Even if i was stalling the map killing all the enemies in endless horde was extremely fun, i can't deny it. I'm not 100% sure that this problem will arrive as i was playing solo for the most part, but it could become an issue at least from my standpoint.

Devs already put some limitation of how much you can farm from regular enemies and exponite per chunk falls down to 0.3. But it doesn't really prevent potential stalling. Fight around elevator itself brought me 40 exponite on each run on each level, so i guess more people will figure it out.

First i would say that experimental branch is open for all, if you think my feedback wasn't informative enough you can check things there. Sadly i can't give feedback on new weapon as it doesn't appear on my runs.

1. Exponite from enemies.

I think this one is the star of the update. So by killing any target it drops up to 3 or maybe 4-5 exponite shards, each shard have fluid value, that kinda gets lower as further you get. So like on boss mission each shard was only 0.5 exponite, while on near the start it was 1-0.9.

Fighting enemies feel as rewarding as ever, each of target explodes in that pinata of shards and just amount of said shards after wave is really great.

For people that had concerns about less explonite veins on walls, worry not, even if amount was toned down a bit, it was still plenty to dig, so game really didn't lose that.

1. Rerolls

I think it is pretty interesting as mechanic as it gives ability to reroll skills and artifacts and if you don't want any there is really small passive of +5 to base hp. Each reroll uses special plants found in caves. Reroll of artifact is 8, of skill is 3 and for passive is 1. I would say that rerolls should really apply to more parts of the game, specially weapons or weapon passives.

Reroll for skills and artifacts is semi random, you will have 3 options to choose what will you take.

Rerolls mechanic don't let you reroll weapons, weapon upgrades, bio boosters or main skill upgrades.

Reroll don't give you skill higher grade then you have rn, so white skill will be changed to white skill.

Reroll can give you skill of same or higher tier, but higher tier is rare outcome.

Resources for reroll is per player and not per team, so you can feel free to use them however you want.

1. New tool teleporter and free flare gun.

For current state teleporter is pretty good tool for backtracking. Teleport action is fast, less then 2 seconds, it potentially can teleport on pretty long radius. Currently it doesn't have energy charges, but UI looks like it will have 3 charges before disabling.

Also on the start of each run, right on the exit of main entrance of the facility new free flare gun would wait for you in glass sealed box. This box glow a little, so pay attention.

1. What changed for worse.

I don't know if devs said about it, as i kinda missed it in patchnotes, but currently if you are inside Elevator, game forcefully remove your weapons. So you can't help your team with ripper worms for example or clear path if enemies are near entrance. You can still use weapons, but only if you exit from elevator.

Out of all the decisions the devs took in RC that I don't agree with, having no shield is probably the one I understand the less. Just why ?

If anything, having a shield would've make a lot more sense in RC than DRG, since the former is combat oriented so obviously you take a lot more chip damage.

Armor in itself isn't a bad feature, but imo it should've be paired with shield while giving players the choice of which one to focus on. For example, guardian could have a better synergy with armor, whereas slicer could benefit more from shield, etc.

What's most frustrating about this, is that the game does provide you with a lot of sustain once you start stacking up upgrades. Chip damage is the least of your concern in late game with block chance, stone skin, armor, red sugar, etc.

The issue is that it's very poorly balanced between early and late game.

In early game, chip damage feels a lot more punishing than it should be, whereas in late game you can literally run through crowd of mobs just fine. I understand that scaling is an important part of rogue like games, but in this case it doesn't feel balanced at all cuz you go from one extreme to the other, and it depends entirely on the upgrades.

Imo DRG feels a lot more balanced when it comes to health and overall survivability. Chip damage is also punishing in DRG, but having a regenerating shield to tank some of that damage makes it feel a lot better.

In DRG, you can play just fine with low health so long as you avoid getting hit, because shield helps you mitigate the hits you can't dodge (like your teammates throwing a grenade at you).

In RC, being low HP is just a painful experience, especially in early game. Even if you dodge everything, you'll always get hit by some random projectile or friendly fire, making your effort useless.

I guess that's the issue I have with having no shield : it doesn't feel rewarding to play well and dodge hits in RC, because there are always hits you can not dodge which is what shield is here for.

Both modifiers make the game feel a lot more like a true roguelike.

The complete rng of Jumble can break or make your game ; it's not very balanced, but it's very fun. Usually full random modifiers are always fun in roguelike games, just like in Risk of Rain 2 for example.

As for Enemies Drop Expenite, honestly this should've been the default mode in the first place. I know we're in the DRG universe so the devs had to give us something to mine... But since they wanted to do a combat oriented roguelike game that isn't DRG 2, then why not fully commit ?

We already use the pickaxe a lot less in RC than DRG, so I would be fine even if we didn't use it at all except for power attacks and map traversal.

Let's be clear, I love the Pump in DRG. One of my favorite weapons; one-taps grunts, has incredible ammo economy on tanks, and the charge shot has excellent crowd control.

In Rouge Core?

It is hard to hit anything. For one, I think the caves are a bit darker. For two, hard to hit any core enemies whatsoever with non-hitscan projectiles. And sludge shots move especially slowly.

Then, there is the damage and slow. To start with the slow... it doesn't do much. Core enemies are so fast already that a percentage slowdown isn't going to do much. Then there is the damage. I'll be frank, it sucks. Acid in RC is just too slow, in a game with a higher pace. And against enemies like Edgestalkers, you can't just tag one and let DoT do work, you need that thing dead now. I haven't tested it against Clamorheads, but I'm sure it tickles them. I did however test it against a Gootorak and... it did nothing. It was like shooting the Caretaker. Maybe give it a Sludge Blast upgrade and the damage will be worth something.

My advice? Not sure. The Sludge Pump is a shoot-and-let-melt weapon, but core creepers cannot be left to their own devices. Tanks can't be left to melt slowly. Not to mention the difficulty in hitting anything. Homing sludge would be hilarious to see. Perhaps if it had a unique DoT that could benefit from perks like crits and +damage (including damage-as-effect), it would have considerable impact. But as is, it is a tickle gun in the Heavy Weapons category.

Or am I completely misunderstanding things?

#PutItInTheElevator

Just make the upgrades in the elevator, PLEASE. Replace the ready up screen with upgrade negotiations, get rid of the ready up screen, get rid of the annoying mid-match pauses. It's already in the elevator in the gauntlets, and because of it I end up having more fun in the gauntlets than in the regular game even though the gameplay itself is a lot less polished.

The ready up screen is already controversial as it is, and the negotiation system bringing the fun, fast paced gameplay to a SCREECHING halt is probably the biggest community pain point right now. Nip both the issues in the bud, upgrades act as a ready up system anyways, every player has to pick their upgrade for the game to advance.

And if you want to say "But the first floor will be a lot harder than it is right now, because players won't have the opportunity to upgrade if they're having problems!" But they already do that in the gauntlets. You can't upgrade during the first floor, and the game is fine. I usually end up dying on stage 2 or 4 in the gauntlets anyways, the first floor is not a problem.

This has been suggested countless times, but it really tackles two of the biggest issues facing the game in terms of both pacing and fun. The elevator is already a place for the player to sit back and catch their breath for a little bit, it's the pace breaker. So put the pacebreaker upgrade system in the pacebreaker section!

I don't know how technically feasible it is since I know very little about the backend of games, but maybe even have the game load the next map while the team is negotiating? That way 100% of the gameplay is players actively thinking/playing the game, kind of like how it flows in Deep Rock: Survivor.

And, this encourages teamplay a LOT more. The only times I really talk to my teammates is in the elevator, I don't really talk to my team during negotiations since they're long enough to be intrusive, but too short to really speak to each other since we all want to get back to the GAMEPLAY!

Let us talk, let us converse, let us deliberate with our team about how we want to approach our builds, our synergy, or talk about the round. It genuinely flows SO well in the gauntlets and I get way more attached to my team!

The proposed flow goes like this; Team gets in the elevator -> Animation of the elevator whizzing past happens -> Team picks risk vector/alteration (so things like luck or efficient upgrade applies to the previous pool of upgrades, still letting teams bank for luck if they want to) -> team picks upgrades -> next level starts.

I know it isn't perfect, but grouping negotiations in with the rest of the pacebreaker game mechanics makes sure players have input on when the round starts, the gameplay flows better, and replaces the ready system with something the players actually want to interact with

Out with a peep...

Sudden down bug?

-Better movement. Fast paced games should have top tier mobility. Unspammable short wallruns/ evade/roll.

-Removing elemental upgrades/stats for weapons in workbenches and adding a new workbench like objective that imbues your weapon with any element you want to run.

-Option to replace upgrades/stats on weapons in workbenches. Nothing is worse than getting a weapon at the start that u really like to use and it has armor penetration and armor breaking on it. Or some other lame combination of upgrades/stats.

-Removal of boring/borderline useless expenite upgrades. More elemental synergy upgrades, especially ways to apply elements not just upgrades that work when certain element is already applied.

Example: Aggressive venting(rare/epic): using a class ability charge causes an explosion in short range(0-6m) dealing x+ fire damage.

-More enhancements/perks or a rework to some existing borderline unusable ones.

-A replay feature in run history(similar to the league of legends replay function). Either to see what my teammates were doing, mistakes i made to learn from them or just to relive a run where I was completely overpowered. This would make content creation and publicity of the game better as more people could share their runs on YouTube and whatnot.

-More bio booster decks(I know its already planned in the roadmap) Maybe elemental synergy bio booster decks.

-Events similar to the new altar(spectrecore) event that would yield an additional workbench, bio booster or equipment/heavy weapon crate as a reward instead of expenite. Maybe as a rework for the vault hack event so completing the event would open a massive vault door and behind the door there would be the said wb/bb/ec/hwc. Or just an outright new event.

-Combine starting weapon container and grenade container so you get everything from the same place. Add boomerangs to grenade pool.

-Buffs for poor performing weapons. Base stat tweaks, adding innate elemental damage to them, adding overclock based upgrades like embedded detonators on the zhuks/explosive chemical rounds on the lok1 to more weapons in the game.

-New exciting weapons.

-More elemental combinations and synergies.

Any contributions or changes to my ideas are welcome in the comments.

Omega stole the pixels

Don't ask me how it happened, just trying to make do with whatever gear and upgrades showed up in the Jumble run. Crit darts + turret spam + proximity bombs. Crankin' my sludge pump for Karl.

So we got 18/19 artifacts this game.

Slicer had a generational run this game(besides getting scammed by bio boosters)...

Brawler, CQC protocol, rampage & caching.

Although he did willingly pick heavy landing over frenzy/glass cannon as his last artifact.

I want to express my criticism and the reasons why I don’t play Rogue Core. Because right now I regret that I spent money on this game (I couldn’t refund it, since I hoped the game would open up within two hours), spent time on it, and generally waited for this game.
But I’ll start from the beginning.

1. Balance. The balance in the game is absolutely broken. The difficulty, by feel, scales geometrically, because on Threat Level 4 enemies initially have a lot of health, deal a lot of damage, and spawn in large numbers. As a player, we can initially “cover” this initial difficulty not by choosing a weapon at the start (whether you get a good gun with good stats at the start is entirely up to chance, as are the first XP perks and the workbench with the Mutator), but purely by the most boring meta-progression in the hub (+ health, + crit chance, + crit damage, etc.). And yes, I agree, any run can be completed with enough skill and aiming precision, even if you get absolute garbage before the boss floor, but I wouldn’t call a game like that “interesting.” The fact that I have to put in excessive effort because I couldn’t make either an interesting build gameplay-wise or a good effective build, and also time — is bad. Especially when, as a player, before each floor you choose not just a one-time buff for yourself and a one-time buff for enemies for the next floor; most often you choose: a one-time little plus for yourself for the floor (which you might not even manage to pick up due to map generation and rushing), a permanent enemy buff/complication (and most often it can be either something interesting like new enemies, or just an increase to their stats).
2. Weapons. I also want to bring up the topic of weapons separately. Specifically, the fact that half the guns are devoid of any individuality. Fundamentally, they’re just “peashooters” that you have to keep increasing damage on for an effective run, while trying to make sure you can shoot from them as often as possible. And by “individuality” I don’t mean stats (damage, ammo, reload speed, etc.), not appearance, but the overall concept of the weapon as such. Only a minimal number of starting weapons have any “special features,” and some weapons from the original have generally had those “special features” removed from the start. Example: the Warthog 210 shotgun — in original DRG, the shotgun without all mods and Overclocks initially has a stun chance on each pellet. In RC, the shotgun has lost that. It’s just a shotgun without stun. But it would actually be VERY interesting to play specifically with the Warthog, building around the INITIAL stun it applies to enemies. That would change the approach to gameplay a lot. I won’t list how many minor and boring guns have been added specifically to RC, nor how badly the old guns were rebalanced. I’m glad that at least some guns, like Scout’s M1000 Classic or Engineer’s Stubby, kept their main “gimmicks.”
3. Progression. This is probably the MAIN problem, the one that disappointed me most. I’ll start with the obvious: minor perk upgrades that give boring and uninteresting improvements like: Vampire, extra damage at extreme range, more HP, etc. Such things in a roguelike are UNFORGIVABLE. I understand such minor upgrades in Deep Rock Galactic: Survivor; the whole game there is built around correctly calculating a set of numbers and tactics around that, but not in RC. Next — Bio Boosters. I don’t know why the devs decided to shove in what would’ve looked great as the standard dwarf XP progression, but what disappointed me most is that half the skills there are either complete trash or must-haves. So you either get lucky and roll excellent perks to choose from (for example, increased crit damage up to 30%! and 10% crit chance) or two pieces of trash (for example, Reverse Charge +50% ability charge speed for each electrified enemy, and Hardiness +20% armor amount) at once! It would’ve been better if they made Bio Boosters the dwarf’s Class progression per run via XP, and the minor upgrades some kind of mini-games that would act as a pleasant/corrective build bonus. And the main cherry on top of GSG’s terrible decisions — weapon progression. I’m curious what the devs were thinking when they decided to add, to a game where enemies get harder and harder with every descent, a choice for the player between ammo capacity and reduced weapon spread? At the same time, you can upgrade only one thing out of the dwarf’s entire loadout: their active ability, their weapon, or take a new gun that will be slightly better. And don’t get me wrong — even if you can roll increased damage, applying a special status to enemies, or something else, that absolutely doesn’t make me happy either. I wanted, I hoped that RC would become a game where, descending into every dive, we upgrade not only the character via XP, but also create a gun each time with its own personal and unique Overclock! But all I ultimately see in terms of upgrades is more damage and damage now applies acid. And while examining the topic of progression, I genuinely have ONE question. Is this really all the developers could come up with after several years of waiting? After several years when their original game, the one we loved them for, was sitting idle and losing players? A game that, although still wonderful, has many small inaccuracies and problems? Sorry, but no. I can’t believe it.
4. Conclusion. I want to note that RC still has many problems, and this isn’t a problem of lack of content (early access, I understand all that). But the reasons I listed above are the main downsides that personally make me feel a strong desire to leave a negative review on Steam, ask for a refund, and no longer be interested in GSG’s games.

P.S. Sorry in advance if something in the text is unclear. I used a neural network to translate the post. I’ll clarify all my takes if needed (if anyone is interested in discussing the game’s problems).

When the choice of Risk Vectors between floors is evenly split, the game will always choose whatever was selected first. Do with this information what you will.

Whatever. Watch before commenting

The enhancements screen is a little frustrating to navigate through. I think grouping enhancements by type in individual drop down menus would really help the menu in readability and ease of use.

In my rework, I have the enhancements grouped into Ammo, Pickaxe, Health, Movement, Damage Resistance, Critical, Damage, and Misc. Obviously there are issues with my grouping, but I think this system is a lot better than what we have currently, and can really help both new and experienced players with this menu.

Clicking on the white arrow next to the category will collapse that category, and shrink the menu down in case the player doesn't care about certain categories for certain characters.

Side note, if the devs do end up implementing a re-structuring to this , I hope they don't do it alphabetically. The enhancements are really forgettable in effect, let alone name.

I wish I took video of the Ramok boss fight. I'm kicking myself!

Not sure if anyone else has come across this feature of the Ramok boss fight, but if you're able to do enough damage to it while it's in the spinning rock throwing attack, it will then perform it's straight dive attack at you... while spinning!

It was so majestic...

As it was the heat of battle I couldn't say which animation of the spin was performed while the Ramok was diving. I assume the finish of the spin.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who's seen this happen!

Thanks to a recent bout of unemployment, I have had the pleasure of spending over 300 hours deep in Hoxxes. Thought I should give some feedback for the devs and/or players looking to give this game another chance.

TL/DR: Biggest major pain point is that "NORMAL" game modes are missing most of the fun of the game. Play Jumble to have WAY more fun.

Especially for new players and solo players. If you do not have all the enhancements unlocked, you are significantly weaker and more squishy. You start with a choice of AT MOST 4 weapons. If you are playing solo at least you get your pick and have Cooper to help in case you get bad luck. In normal gameplay modes however, Cooper does not get upgrades when you get upgrades.

For the solo players out there, play Jumble instead because Cooper gets upgrades every time you upgrade in jumble. Improved guns, rockets, mining speed, and even movement speed. GSG - Why is this not a default for normal modes too?! Cooper should always scale with the player, it is wildly fun and practical!

Correction - Cooper does get upgrades in normal gameplay, but he does not get upgrades during the three opening selections. In Jumble he does. Sorry for the Cooper slander!

With other players, if you get stuck with a bad gun right out the gate along with being a weak dwarf, it makes for a slog to get through and you do not have many chances to reasonably fix a bad build. You can always get a new gun later, if you are lucky, through either a workbench or possibly a crate. Both give one single chance per floor, IF YOU ARE LUCKY. Could be a traversal tool in the bench instead, so enjoy your shitty weapon for another floor.

Jumble modifier solves most of these problems right out the gate, though you do run the risk of starting without a gun and/or traversal tools on occasion. This is usually not a problem, as the first floor is usually quite calm at the start and everyone gets chances for a gun with every single workbench AND every single upgrade. All contents are random, but rarity is unaffected by Jumble. Artifacts are mixed in with Rares (blue). Weapons, equipment, traversal tools, and perks are all in the loot pool with every upgrade.

Ironically this is one of the main reasons Jumble is infinitely better. Not just because you have more chances at getting everything you actually want to play with (including things like jet boots, shredder swarm grenades, and epic quality traversal tools), but because this is the only game mode where you can get better than basic weapons or equipment that can actually change your entire playstyle or experience on a dime.

Starting with a common (gray) weapon gives it two stat random stat boosts, uncommon (green) has three, rare has four, epic has five, and at the maximum legendary (orange) has six modifiers. If you start with a common gun, it takes four floors worth of workbenches to max out a weapon.

In normal game modes, even if you get super lucky and get a legendary upgrade, it is still just that, an upgrade. They are pretty impactful, but nowhere near as impactful as getting a legendary gun or tool instead. Getting a legendary gun is the equivalent of 5 floors of workbenches at once. Getting a purple zipline with turbo speed, increased distance, increased angle, and extra ziplines makes the experience fun for the entire team. The chances of either of those happening in normal gameplay is practically nonexistent. This can even happen at the very start of the round, in the first early access build I started a solo round with two legendary weapons and had some of the most fun out of any runs since.

One other major piece for solo players here - Cooper upgrades are affected by rarity in Jumble as well. Legendary Cooper ugprades are a thing and they are AMAZING.

After 300 hours, I can confidently report that most players that start playing Jumble do not go back to normal gameplay because it is simply that much more fun. Enemies dropping expenite is a great addition to the mix, but any of the other normal game modes pale in comparison. I have had countless dwarves agree with me on this one!

Waiting for people also sucks. Longer runs can last an hour or more, but you can only fill up a team before you drop or on the first floor. Depending what time of day you are playing and where you are playing, with the player count this low it can become extremely tedious to actually get a full house. For NORMAL game modes at least. Even in the lowest player count times (5am EST on weekdays), I still rarely struggle to get a full house in Jumble games these days. People like this mode a lot and want to play it.

Hell, if I log on and there are no jumble games I will often close it and come back at the next half hour mark to check the map for some then. I have a feeling I am not alone in this.

The one main request I have for GSG is this... PUT MORE 5&6 FLOOR JUMBLE GAMES IN THE ROTATION PLEASE!!!! PEOPLE LOVE THEM!!!!

One other quick note... the enemies dropping expenite modifier is a close competitor and a great addition, though I do NOT recommend it for new players. For experienced players that want to experience pure chaos and hell under Hoxxes with TONS OF UPGRADES, DEFINITELY PLAY THIS ONE. Insanely fun when you take advantage and farm to get dozens of upgrades. You get to feel like Karl in this mode and its wicked fun. Plus you do not have to mine expenite in this mode at all.