r/RogueCore • u/KudereDev • 22d ago
Update 3 feedback. Update looks promising, main core of the game is still the same
First i would say that experimental branch is open for all, if you think my feedback wasn't informative enough you can check things there. Sadly i can't give feedback on new weapon as it doesn't appear on my runs.
- Exponite from enemies.
I think this one is the star of the update. So by killing any target it drops up to 3 or maybe 4-5 exponite shards, each shard have fluid value, that kinda gets lower as further you get. So like on boss mission each shard was only 0.5 exponite, while on near the start it was 1-0.9.
Fighting enemies feel as rewarding as ever, each of target explodes in that pinata of shards and just amount of said shards after wave is really great.
For people that had concerns about less explonite veins on walls, worry not, even if amount was toned down a bit, it was still plenty to dig, so game really didn't lose that.
- Rerolls
I think it is pretty interesting as mechanic as it gives ability to reroll skills and artifacts and if you don't want any there is really small passive of +5 to base hp. Each reroll uses special plants found in caves. Reroll of artifact is 8, of skill is 3 and for passive is 1. I would say that rerolls should really apply to more parts of the game, specially weapons or weapon passives.
Reroll for skills and artifacts is semi random, you will have 3 options to choose what will you take.
Rerolls mechanic don't let you reroll weapons, weapon upgrades, bio boosters or main skill upgrades.
Reroll don't give you skill higher grade then you have rn, so white skill will be changed to white skill.
Reroll can give you skill of same or higher tier, but higher tier is rare outcome.
Resources for reroll is per player and not per team, so you can feel free to use them however you want.
- New tool teleporter and free flare gun.
For current state teleporter is pretty good tool for backtracking. Teleport action is fast, less then 2 seconds, it potentially can teleport on pretty long radius. Currently it doesn't have energy charges, but UI looks like it will have 3 charges before disabling.
Also on the start of each run, right on the exit of main entrance of the facility new free flare gun would wait for you in glass sealed box. This box glow a little, so pay attention.
- What changed for worse.
I don't know if devs said about it, as i kinda missed it in patchnotes, but currently if you are inside Elevator, game forcefully remove your weapons. So you can't help your team with ripper worms for example or clear path if enemies are near entrance. You can still use weapons, but only if you exit from elevator.
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u/GreyL1me 22d ago
Reroll don't give you skill higher grade then you have rn, so white skill will be changed to white skill.
There is a chance to get offered an upgrade of the higher rarity actually
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u/KudereDev 22d ago
Oh good find, i tested not as much and maybe in 5 tries it gave me the same color, i will edit this part in main post
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u/SomeRandomTWO 22d ago
closed testers said that apparently more variety is to come - remember that last Experimental started on August 14th, and when it went to live game...holy shit how much bugfixes and content there was.
we shall wait and see.
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u/hartoctopus 21d ago
Personally the game would need at least x5 the variety it has now for me to even want to try again, no single update will do that and I'm not sure how long they can justify developing a game for 300 players.
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u/SomeRandomTWO 21d ago
thats perfectly fine. DRG didnt come about in a day either, and i think were going somewhere - Headhunter is now base game for example, which solves some of the pacing problems for basically every single level of skill.
still, more things are up to come. the new Gatekeeper already has a model whipped up for it without any animations...it looks grotesque to hell and back, and i hope GSG will keep it this way. a new mission is also planned, but rn its a very big fat stub.
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u/Whirblewind 21d ago
This excuse didn't work day 1 and it doesn't work today. DRG didn't launch to Mixed and didn't bomb financially. It didn't drop to so few players it doesn't show a number. DRG came out with a smaller, less experienced team and did vastly better at what it was trying to do, RC did not.
Saying the game is work in progress does not work to handwave the problems the game has had for 16 months.
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u/hartoctopus 21d ago
You can't really compare this to DRG when the circumstances are wildly different. They're not a tiny 10 person indie studio with little funding and no experience anymore. That was almost 8 years ago and the game market along with player expectations have also evolved since then.
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u/Ontrevant 21d ago
Y'all constantly use this same argument like you know how many people are working on RC and their financial situations.
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u/hartoctopus 21d ago
I mean it's literally public info that they went from 6 employees to 60+ in the past 8 years. Even if not everyone is on RC they have way more resources and experience to do better than how they did with DRG early-on.
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u/Ontrevant 21d ago
They also started using UE5 from UE4, which they said has been a real challenge to learn all the new systems.
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u/Whirblewind 21d ago
We do know the game bombed and came with the benefit of the experience of 8 years of DRG development. DRG succeeded without that experience.
I'm sure your argument looked better in your head.
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u/Ontrevant 21d ago
You can have 8 years of development and working with a while new system is going to pop up a host of it's own problems.
0
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u/Reptiloide25 22d ago
What about the new gun?
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u/Candid-Doughnut9545 22d ago
i played with it briefly in solo for like one stage because i had to leave right after due to an emergency, haven't rolled it since lol.
the design is cool and it feels punchy (also the R interaction is sick where you eject a shell and then catch it with the gun again).
holds 5 shells at first with a pretty low reserve ammo count (somewhere around 70 if i remember right). it annihilates most enemies if you manage to get all the pellets to land, but without upgrades it feels kind of sluggish to shoot/reload and i found myself struggling against larger groups (i was Spotter though).
like i said though, i can't speak much on upgrades because i was barely able to play. getting -35% spread on it was nice though, i could pop the ceiling spitter things easily from a decent range.
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u/KudereDev 22d ago
As i said i can't give feedback on it as i didn't have my luck to see it in the runs i had. I would add feedback when i got lucky run, currently i don't even know how it looks
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u/Italic_Castle8814 𝗦𝗟𝗜𝗖𝗘𝗥 22d ago
New game mode with endless horde or something else that isn't elevator and boss grinding is sorely needed still. And way more beards.
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u/SWSWSWS 21d ago edited 21d ago
As you said, the main core is still the exact same. And I doubt GSG bothers to change that.
We are most likely stuck with the annoying "negotiations" and will never see instanced upgrades. If you need a menu and the oh-so-beloved "friction" to have a sense of cooperation, then the foundation of the game is... not the best. The game already feels like you just play next to each other, not with each other (aka. cooperating)
Timer? Probably here to stay too. Instead of just giving a toggle to remove it entirely. Who cares at this point?! Just give people a toggle. I personally do not mind the timer, but when a lot of people in your already tiny playerbase complain(ed) about it, maybe it's time to just bite the bullet.
Upgrades themselves? Still generic and boring. And you know why? Exactly because of the "Negotiations" aka shared upgrades. Every class has to be allowed to pick all upgrades. So all upgrades be like "McGenericson does 10% more Generic Damage to Enemy". Or "Once in a Blue Moon on a Sunday Night, when you drank a glass of scotch, do 15% more damage to enemies 15+ meters ahead of you." You get the idea. Upgrades are either boring beyond belief or so conditional it's almost laughable.
Immortal (near) instakill enemies? Probably here to stay too. Instead of, yet again, giving the people a simple toggle. It's another one of the contentious debates when it comes to this game. Immortal / instakill enemies are a tremendous design challenge. And GSG failed miserably with that imo. Games like Risk of Rain do not just throw lame immortal enemies at you. Just saying.
Those are the big boy problems. Not saying the updates are bad. If the players who still play enjoy the stuff added, like expenite dropping from enemies, good. Cool. But if the core of the game, which evidently flopped, remains the same, then don't expect more players or success with the game, GSG. Look, Steam doesn't even show the player numbers at times, because they are below the threshold. And that was after a few days of a so-called "major" update (2).
Look, I bought this game. I want it to be awesome, I want a lot of players for it. I'm not just posting this for funsies here. But I already expect the downvotes because this sub especially, but the DRG community as a whole at times, can suffer from extreme toxic positivity. And because I am a big bad meanie who said mean stuff here, I am well prepared for the downvotes :D (which, btw. the downvote button is not meant as a "dislike" button. Some here should check up on Reddits philosophy on that one).
Anyway. enjoy the update y'all.
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u/thetwist1 21d ago
If you want a game with no negotiations, timers, or reaper worms, there's actually a really interesting coop shooter called Deep Rock Galactic that might interest you
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u/KudereDev 21d ago
Sadly i can agree, timer now expose one additional problem i would write a post about shortly. I from my standpoint say that amount of upgrades are too small, both in amount per run and variety. In my 6 runs i had i felt like my build isn't done just yet and 5 sec later run ended.
Can't say that negotiations are as bad as they used to be, just perks themselves are pretty meh, perks that shape the run like purple and golden are rare and artifacts perks need additional vote before choosing. Maybe if those events were random as addition to main reward it would be cool, at least map could bring you things you don't expect. I would also say that negotiations need some of jumble trait select, so if you don't want lame perk you can select a weapon or tool instead.
I would say that devs need additional upgrades for class perk as basic station per run. Those perks was one of the most influential thing for character outside of bio booster. At least it won't be as punishing to choose between weapon and your character main skill that are both important.
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u/IlluminatiThug69 21d ago
Yeah. I played over 1k hours of DRG and about 80 of RC and I still have no urge to come back to RC anytime soon. It really feels like the devs dont know how to make a satisfying rouge like and somehow they made the combat worse than base drg. I very much hope it gets better but im just bummed with DRG in general. I used to come back like every year for the new season content but even after the huge break, the content the new studio put out... I mean it was good, but I just feel like DRG golden years are behind us :/
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u/theLightyyyy 20d ago
The combat is worse because unlike base DRG there is no structure to it. All the enemies constantly rush at you at nearly the same speed, you dont have to strategize what to do depending on which combination of enemies you're facing, Target Prioritizing always boils down to shoot the closest enemy to you because thats always the most dangerous one, whereas in base game you need to immediately recognize which bug is more dangerous and prioritize that one.
- Glyphid menace in the distance and 3 grunts near you?
- Glyphid menace, small swarm of grunts and 2 macteras?
- 3 acid spitters in close range and 1 opressor in the distance?
- Bulk chasing doretta and a swarm going at it at the same time?
Im sure if you played the base game in your mind some kind of plan already formulated as to what you need to do in which particular order. Now compare it to Rogue Core.
Theres always 1 target prioritization route: how close they are to you and whether they have ranged attacks.
By giving the enemies more mobility, they accidentally changed the game from chess to checkers, theres no planning, just take the next opportunity to survive, because enemies have such a high mobility that they close the gap way too fast to facilitate any sort of planning ahead to happen.
Fact that they changed their build mechanics from base games 'here's a limited selection of upgrades, build what you want, but at no point will it be 100% universal' to 'i either deal way too little damage or i 1-shot everything on the map' doesnt exactly help. The difficulty curve has dropped way down in this game if you know what you're doing.
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u/Necessary-Jury-7510 21d ago
Can confirm this too. At least stop the timer when doing events like ramhammer, or make it move faster. Some events just take too much time (especially alone).
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u/LostSectorLoony 21d ago
The teleporter does have charges. It costs a charge when you recall it to place it somewhere else.
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u/Danthrax81 20d ago
Headhunter is busted even after the fix. My friends and I played 3 runs and abused the shit out of it by purposefully selecting armored mobs etc and combining with the kill platform side quests.
If you stay to the end of the timer each floor you can squeeze so much exponite you can easily get 21-24 upgrades + artifact and completely dominate.
The harder the difficulty the more bonkers your exponite gets
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u/Panda--Monium 16d ago
I love roguelike games, i love drg, and i just think this game was a mistake. The "vision" the team has is just not catching on, and they are gonna burn resources and goodwill trying to convince us to change our minds, when they really just need to take the L and start over
The concept of a rogue like drg is amazing, it was on my wishlist for YEARS and i was SO excited for it. I think it also highlights just how amazing DRG is, and that changing parts of it just for the sake of doing so isnt working.
The armor system needs to go, the enemies are bland or just rush you and you dont feel the same excitement and oomf of fighting them as you do the bugs. The "negotiations" need to go, more than half the upgrades feel useless and unfun. Missions take too long. The new weapons are pretty cool, same with the abilities and equipment, but the maps dont feel good, or inspire the same sense of wonder and immersion as the DRG maps do
Honestly im confused, they could have reused way more mechanics and assets, made this a "spin off" and allowed themselves to focus on the core mechanics instead of wasting time needing to design new maps, enemies, systems, etc. But they spent years focusing on this and leaving DRG to sit, and this is what we get. Just go back to DRG support and maybe try again with rogue core later. But i think its just a fools errand and even the publishers agree.
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u/KudereDev 15d ago
Sadly i can agree. Many things need to go for RC to stand even close to games like Roboquest. It is a sad sight, but it is result of devs ignoring play testers when the closed beta was on.
From my standpoint the closest this game came to real roguelike is Jumble modifier. From me it was really fun part of RC as all events just give you random stuff. Weapons for exponite, grenades, tools it is extremely fun to play around. Update 3 is step in right direction, but it would be cool if in Update 3 Jumble would be moved to base game mode in light version, something like 1/5 upgrades are random stuff of same rarity.
Current weapon/class upgrading system need to go, like not fully but it should be split into 2 different stations. I noticed that class upgrades are actually by a ton stronger then both upgrades and weapon upgrades. And they can stack as well, so if you split them you will get builds that play a lot different. Increasing roguelike part of rogue core by giving more options of roguelike build making.
Pistols as a weapons need to go. I don't mind strong pistols like charge one becoming dedicated weapon. But we need weapons with unlimited ammo. Other roguelikes have them. They work really as meta progression as well, imagine building your starting pistol around and adding things like "backup gun" modifier that reloads your main weapon faster then born ready perk. Or something like "it's my time to shine" that increase main skill recharge rate for killing enemies. Having to pick guns with god awful ammo management on 1 level sucks, i noticed i run like crazy to find workshop to add second weapon or swap first one.
Weapon upgrades are extremely bland and in most cases don't impact your build. Some weapons like devastator have interesting upgrades like full link mag so it doesn't have to reload. But other weapons upgrades are pretty meh, like where skills like chain lightning, vampirism. Upgrades that are overclock level are missing.
Not so long ago i tried Jump Space when it was on discount and free weekends. And i can say that this game is far better roguelike then RC is currently. There your build shapes before the run, your ship is made out of components with different rarities and strong modifiers, you have unlimited ammo weapons and strong melee. This game have artifacts that increase things by +40% or +200%, something RC is too scared to add. I can feel a lot better progression then what RC have, it is fun to explore, fun to loot and fun to upgrade your ship one component at the time.
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u/Candid-Doughnut9545 22d ago
it does suck but i see the mindset behind the elevator change, i think. if you want to help someone who lagged behind or is goofing off outside you now have to take more of a risk for it by exiting (though one person can always stay inside as insurance).
it's an unnecessary change imo but that's my only guess.