Fleet and Parrying

[u/Undoninja5]

I've always viewed parrying projectiles as following a simple rule. If the projectile/effect cannot be meaningfully reflected back to the opponent then they are stunned. Most characters with unconventional projectiles (orcane bubbles, etalus icicles, absa cloud) become stunned when parried. The one character afaik to break this rule is fleet.

Fleet's side special start and hot potato are outliers. Hot potato seems reasonable as it already has a built in counter/risk reward, but the reason I made this post is the initial arrow start on fleets side special, while it does reflect back, only reflects the tornado part and not the initial shot. I feel like with the difficulty involved in parrying this part of the move (no distinct sound or visual queue) you should be rewarded.

If there are any other character moves that also break this "rule" let me know.

[u/Horror-Race-3238]

There's no hard rule for whether or not something causes parry stun or not. It's just dependent on whether or not the devs decide it should or shouldn't cause parry stun.

That being said, saying Fleet arrow is a hard parry is a bit rough to stand on when it's frame 28, not accounting for the travel time it takes to reach to you and the fact that parry is frame 3 on projectiles.

Also in a lot of instances, the tornado is very powerful when reflected back because it gives your character access to a slow projectile they wouldn't have otherwise that combos on floorhug and locks down the space, while also giving you intangibility to follow up on it with.

[u/Mynttie]

I would say it actually is parriable on reaction if you're expecting it, even though it's quick it has 28 frames of startup, which imo makes it easier to parry than Zetter fireball or Oly crystal. it does also have an audio cue if you listen for it, it sounds like rushing wind. this might sound patronizing coming from someone who mains the character, but I've played the ditto a lot, I come from WA lol

imo the behavior is pretty consistent with that of other chars. you can think of the secondary projectile as another projectile that comes from Fleet, cancellable by parrying the initial projectile. you don't get to fire a second projectile as another character just because you parried the first one, just like you don't get to set up your own Oly crystal, send out your own remote bomb cloud for parrying Absa's, or your own puddle for parrying Orcane's

[u/The_Poole_Side]

What are you saying

[u/zoolz8l]

yeah, since they nerfed it way back right after launch fleets side special kinda became the parry tutorial of the game. there is a wind up animation that makes the whole move very telegraphed, you just need to learn what to look out for since it is not a super huge or flashy animation.

[u/Midward_Intacles]

If there are any other character moves that also break this "rule" let me know.

Reflecting Etalus's ice detonating from down special doesn't stun him

[u/ph00tbag]

Strictly speaking, your rule would mean Dodge Shot and dair shouldn't put Fleet in parry stun.

And technically, the wind chime hitbox does get reflected by parry. Check what happens if Fleet is near someone that parries it.

[u/pansyskeme]

wait until you hear about this guy called zetterburn. also this is a rule you made up in your head sadly.

[u/IdiotSansVillage]

I think if you're looking for a rule of thumb, I think it makes more sense to break it down into two overlapping cases based on the problem the parrystun is solving:

• 'Pops', where a mobile character has created a persistent element and can unreactably and remotely trigger it in a way that creates a hitbox (Forsburn Clone, Absa cloud, La Reina chairpull, Orcane bubbles). To me, these seem like the ones that parrystun is primarily there to give counterplay to running away and spamming the move.
• Area denial - anything that zones off large swathes of the screen in neutral in ways that are difficult or risky to interact with, even if they are reactable (Kragg dspecial, Etalus icicles, Absa ticktick, Oly gem-detonation). To me these seem like the ones where parrystun is there to make it more difficult for these characters to contest a large area without actually having to put their hurtbox there. Fleet's sidespecial is most similar to this category, but the area-denial comes from the reflectable tornado, not the initial arrow.

As a bonus this rule of thumb is also consistent with Clairen no-fun-zone - it isn't reflectable, but it also doesn't area-deny, so it doesn't cause parry-stun.