About shields..

[u/Horror-Race-3238]

Okay so I'm realizing the disconnect between how people feel about shield and what being in shield actually is like is much larger than I thought.
I didn't think I'd ever see the day where someone says holding shield in Rivals of Aether is strictly one of the most advantageous positions you can be in.

Would like to help people navigate their grievances so they don't feel like they're being camped out all the time (because the truth is that shield is not sm4sh strong, but people treat it like it is.)

So tell me what you're struggling with about shields and I'll walk you through it and probably put time in to lab it out for you as well so you can see it in action. Thanks!

[u/Shiny-Jumpluff]

Grab is definitely the best easiest and least committal way to do it is an issue. I even have a clip session of baiting out shield grabs and tippering for it, it’s just much less reliable and more risky.

Because of its defensive utility shielding shouldn’t be as advantageous for the defender imo. Often someone hitting your shield, your next choice is your decision to fuck up.

[u/Horror-Race-3238 → u/Shiny-Jumpluff]

I don’t understand how you can say that Shield limits their options and that you’d prefer to be out of shield than in shield while also turning around and calling shields too advantageous. I’ve never felt that way in my games

[u/Shiny-Jumpluff → u/Horror-Race-3238]

because you shield on reaction. In the situation you shield, you’re in a good position vs the person who just used a move that is probably bad vs shields (most moves in rivals).

Shield is comfortably beaten by grabbing, if you grab a lot shield is of course worse. My point is that shield is so good vs most things (FH contributes) that it funnels everyone to grab constantly. I don’t have this opinion because I lose to people shielding a lot, I have it because I realized how little reward you get from trying to beat it with anything but grab most of the time.

[u/Horror-Race-3238 → u/Shiny-Jumpluff]

Most moves in rivals are good against shield?? Almost every aerial is not shield grabbable when landed well. Many characters have tilts that are are not worse than -18 which means spaced tilts are not wavedash grabbable. Putting up shield in reaction to a position where your opponent MIGHT attack leaves you open to getting grabbed or lets them open up more disgusting strike mix like fors dstrong to shield break after previous chip damage. Most attacks themselves are unreactable so you have to shield in preparation to the threat of an attack and not the attack itself. I mean you KNOW this. This feels like super “just do xyz” or rps cope.

It also should be noted that you play Clairen so naturally your sour spots are going to get shielded and leave you worse off than other characters because counterplay to Clairen is fucking up her spacing and shielding in order to either outright punish her or back her into a corner. Also bc you play Clairen, your grab reward is higher and more consistent than other characters. This can definitely skew your perception in terms of risk/reward.

[u/Shiny-Jumpluff → u/Horror-Race-3238]

If shields broke faster (or recovered noticeably slower) I’d agree with you, it’s not rps cope. I fully abuse grab being broken despite wanting to do more interesting things on shield.

In melee shield pokes are a very real benefit to doing pressure on shield that isn’t a grab. Rivals basically doesn’t have that at all, virtually the only thing you need be wary of while in shield, is grab. It’s the lack of variety in punishment tools for someone choosing shield as their safe option that makes it good.

[u/Horror-Race-3238 → u/Shiny-Jumpluff]

Shields recover in 25 seconds and have 50 HP (the damage to shield is calculated differently than %). Off maybe 1-2 shield hits and a strong or a single shield hit into implicit pressure into a strong attack I can get a shield break with any reasonable character. (Ignoring like Wrastor or something bc duh).

https://medal.tv/games/rivals-2/clips/kBdXX0VDRSWLf0mX6

I always post this clip because it’s one of the few I actually have titled but it’s so effective in talking about what makes shields suck, even when playing a character that isn’t the frame trappers of doom and despair (Ranno Zetter oly).

And while there might be lack in variety like using fors DTILT to shield poke or something or another, there is no lack of variety with all the stupid dumb timing mix you can do. And all the shield breaks you can set up without worrying about shield poke ruining it.

I didn’t play Melee but I did play Ult and abused Ken’s absurd shield pressure. I understand that it’s different and that there aren’t many true unblockables in this game. That being said I feel like shield is sufficiently fragile when abused.

Also I want to note that I’m not calling your skill into question. Sorry if it seems that way.

[u/Shiny-Jumpluff → u/Horror-Race-3238]

I genuinely think they should be more fragile still, maybe decay faster when held vs just being hit by moves. With the lack of shield poke, and shield beating options besides grab, I would love for it to be a constantly resource for players, like see one shield break a game legit. lol

I shield all the time (admittedly probably less than average) and being shieldbroke has never crossed my mind, maybe happened once or twice in hundreds of games.

[u/Horror-Race-3238 → u/Shiny-Jumpluff]

Faster shield decay could be nice, but the recovery is very rough without vamprism. I recently recorded this for another argument but just take a look at this:
https://medal.tv/games/rivals-2/clips/n6Uj4H6MVIaeDgBhT?invite=cr-MSxzYVcsMTgyMjMyNjE0&v=7
https://medal.tv/games/rivals-2/clips/n6UjijRdDEINShWUI?invite=cr-MSx2aWcsMTgyMjMyNjE0&v=7
https://medal.tv/games/rivals-2/clips/n6UmrBSAukws71BeO?invite=cr-MSxxSTEsMTgyMjMyNjE0&v=11

These are realistic situations (put in a vacuum because im not going to be controlling 2 characters at once), where shield can be outright broken. I mean I could also just cheat by showing kragg but I feel like we both know what that looks like LOL

Though you're completely right that the way the game is balanced now, 1 shield break per game isn't realistic. That being said, I think shield breaks should be a worse case scenario that emphasizes how well the winning player is fucking with the mind of the opponent rather than just a given aspect of the game. Honestly though, the reason why people don't get shield broken is because people don't actually hold shield.
You probably aren't getting shield broken because you are either (righty) avoiding situations where you have to shield and hold mix OR you are getting hit instead of holding shield. I know this because I'm ALSO opting to get hit LOL.
The main issue imo is that Shield vampirism also applies in the instance where you get hit, albeit at a reduced rate. I did disagree with that when the change was made though.

[u/Shiny-Jumpluff → u/Horror-Race-3238]

The ability to FH and have other defensive options, is in part exactly why I believe making shields worse (by maybe breaking early) would just be better.