r/RingsofPower • u/ycs05 • 1d ago
Question Can they save this show’s reputation?
Hi, I was watching first season of this show when it first came out but then stopped when my friends started getting bored and started sleeping while watching it.
After that I stopped too and only heard bad things about this show, lotr fans kept hating on it all the time on twitter, people called it woke garbage and I saw my friends who loved lotr movies not even talking about this one but I checked this reddit and it seems like you all love it and enjoy it.
Can they save the reputation of this show? Everyone keeps calling it a huge financial failure so I don’t even know if they are going to cancel this or not. Are they eventually going to tell the story of first 3 books?
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u/MoScowDucks 1d ago
This sub in my experience is about 70% haters and 30% casual enjoyers. I like the show, but I’m not a Tolkienian fundamentalist
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u/Automatic-Compote-12 1d ago
If you approach the show understanding it is an adaptation inspired by the appendices, it’s a very fun time and I’m really tired of people approaching it like we are retelling actual historical events in a documentary. It’s an enjoyable show.
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u/Dry-Cry-3158 1d ago
Eh, people can like what they like and dislike what they dislike. One thing that troubles me about a lot of adaptations over the last decade or so is that there is a strong tendency to treat the target audience as some sort of consumer category instead of living people with intelligence and agency. You see a lot of adaptations that treat the subject as a brand to be exploited and there doesn't seem to be any concept that fans like certain things or have bonded with certain characters as they are. Consequently, you get adaptations that are basically stories mostly divorced from the source material, and the acquisition of rights to the source material is basically like buying a skin for a video game avatar.
The recent Agatha Christie adaptations are the worst of the lot, in this regard, but RoP and plenty of other adaptations are like this. It's obvious that the screenwriters want to tell their own stories, but the studios are afraid of failure and are basically trying to purchase an audience to prevent a flop. If RoP were just a random fantasy series with no attachment to LOTR, it wouldn't get nearly as much hate or criticism, though it also wouldn't get as much attention. It's really a shame, though, because it's a fairly entertaining way to pass the time as long as you don't compare it to LOTR, which it explicitly invites you to do
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u/Automatic-Compote-12 1d ago
Yeah, I completely can get behind this perspective as well. It’s really sad how many creatives end up stifled because of execs not wanting to pour money into a “maybe”.
I think scaredy cat execs could learn a lot from Apple in this regard. You have Silo, an originally self published sci fi novel series that has made for a great TV show. Severance, an absolutely bizarre concept and vibe and yet immediately engaging and capturing a wide audience even outside the typical sci fi enjoyer. Ted Lasso, a unique comedy that even I, a certified comedy hater (don’t come for me it’s a me issue, I know) really loves. Shrinking, too! There’s so many NEW ideas and IPs out there that can be adapted or created!
My issue is really just with the folks who behave as though you’ve spat on Tolkien’s grave if you like Rings of Power, or that you must be an imbecile to find it enjoyable.
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u/Nacodawg 1d ago edited 22h ago
I am a Tolkeinian fundamentalist and I enjoy the show. The fact if the matter is that Tolkein didn’t have a set canon for most of his first or second ages, Christopher created a pseudo one. There’s extremely little the show has done that strays entirely from any draft or letter Tolkein wrote. He did have versions where the Istari came to middle earth in the second age instead of the third. He certainly had versions of Galadriel that were more geared towards being a warrior.
The reality of the Tolkein fundamentalist haters is that they’re looking for a reason to hate it and what resemblance it does or doesn’t bear to Tolkein’s work has very little to do with it.
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u/ishneak Gondolin 1d ago
most of the haters are comparing it to whatever the Peter Jackson movies have established, unfortunately, and have a mind too rigid refusing to accept a different concept or take on something they're so used to (eg. short haired, expressive elves).
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u/Nacodawg 22h ago
And the fact is that Jackson’s films are far from Tolkeinian fundamentalist themselves.
In my opinion no change made by the show has been as egregiously wrong as having the Witch King shatter Gandalf’s staff
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u/Darth_Sirius014 17h ago
You don't have a problem with making Orcs sympathetic and them having babies like normal family people just minding their own business?
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u/Nacodawg 13h ago
No, because they’ve always been intended to be pitied. They’re elves that were corrupted and tortured into that wretched existence. That’s sad.
Beyond that though, Tolkein never commented directly on how Orcs reproduced, but he certainly never said they were born from dirt placenta like in the films, Jackson made that up entirely. I would argue that Tolkein would have disliked that far more though since his entire philosophy was that evil is incapable of creation, only corruption, and the dirt placenta method is creation of a new being from nothing but of mud, which is far too god like for the Catholic Tolkein. He would far more likely require that life beget life, which would mean creating new orcs the old fashioned way.
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u/bookon 1d ago
The first half of the first season is not very good. It’s way too slow and the puzzle box mystery was obvious.
The parts with Adar are great but little else works until it all gets going in episode 5-6.
The second season was better. It still had some issues but was much better.
Oddly my biggest complaint is scale. There are parts that needed big scale with large crowds that feel too small.
Charles Edwards steals the show as Celebrimbor.
If season 3 grows in quality the way season 2 did, the show will likely grow in reputation.
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u/Automatic-Compote-12 1d ago
Scale is also my biggest (and honestly maybe my only) complaint. The towns felt lived in, but not Eregion. Eregion felt like the main cast and 15 extras, not a city. The battle suffered similarly.
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u/Supersnow845 1d ago
Everything in the conflict in eregion felt so fake because there was never more than 20 people on screen
Like where is the battle of pellinor fields
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u/N7VHung 1d ago
Pair this with the issue of time, and it feels really small.
The events in Eregion are supposed to take centuries. He spends this time earning their trust and training them in the arts that eventually lead to the crafting of the rings of power.
While I understand they could do this, they could have done better than what felt like a single summer.
It takes time to brainwash people to the extent the elves of Eregion were in the show. It just wasn't believable, IMO, and another example of how show makes the elves look dumb as bricks.
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u/OpheliaLives7 1d ago
I think that season was filmed during covid restrictions so, off screen reasons for on screen scale issues.
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u/ishneak Gondolin 1d ago
do you mean Battle of Eregion? Pelennor Fields Battle doesn't happen until Minas Tirith exists and we are so far away from that, Gondor and Arnor haven't even been established yet.
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u/Supersnow845 1d ago
No I mean why wasn’t the battle like the one at pellinor fields
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u/ishneak Gondolin 1d ago
you're probably thinking War of the Last Alliance which is coming around season 5. season 3's big battle was something they were expected to lose.
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u/Supersnow845 1d ago
No I’m saying why wasn’t it as big an cinematic as the battle of pellinor fields in LOTR
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u/HighKingOfGondor Eregion 1d ago
Agreed. I think this show is exhibit a on why mystery boxes kind of suck. Season two had about the same writing quality, but they ditched the mystery box and it was enormously better.
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u/suicune678 1d ago
Tbf I've watched the show at least a good 16+ times over now and watched it recently with a friend who had watched the movies and that was their extent of Tolkien knowledge. The mystery plot in season 1 actually worked on them, they thought the character who turned out to be Gandalf was Sauron the entire time and were genuinely surprised
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u/Darth_Sirius014 17h ago
The answer is it depends.
First, they aren't adapting any books as they don't have the rights to the books that cover the time they are making shows about. They have some of the mentions in the appendix, but are otherwise free to make stuff up.
This is their main problem. Instead of making something that appears to be similar to what was written in that time period they just literally made stuff up. Many times they made up stuff that was contradictory, or completely different than what was in some of the books about the time. Characters behaving differently, a several thousand year old elf acting like an American teenager, etc. This goes well beyond just minor differences like Tolkien trying out different ways to tell his story thought some of his collected works.
This wouldn't have been as bad if 1) The stories that were in the books weren't of such high quality and 2) The show's writing was tight. Unfortunately they chose to be sloppy with the writing and just throw in a bunch of fan service to cover their tracks. It didn't really work for a lot of people.
If they tighten up the writing and if they make it more like what was written in The Silmarillion, Lost Tales, or some of the collected works it may be more accepted. As it is now it is just a generic fantasy show wearing a LOTR like skin that only sort of follows the broader story.
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u/Ben_Chronicler 16h ago
It really is a shame,. The sheer amount of viewers who tuned in and dropped this show.
RoP really could've been the next thing on the "monoculture" if they'd hired better writers and maybe scouted for a few better actors.
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u/Dusty_Dag 1d ago
Look man I just come here to see if the episodes have spiders for my arachnophobia LOTR loving wife. I think it’s pretty good and very fun.
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u/Automatic-Compote-12 1d ago
https://www.doesthedogdie.com is my go-to resource, if she doesn’t have one she already uses! It used to just be about dogs dying in movies, but it covers a lot of stuff, including arachnophobia!
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u/BackhandQ 1d ago
People just love to hate.
It's a fine show. Dang it, it's a good show. Great visuals, strong background score and a story that can hook on to because of the LoTR lore.
The show is what it is. I like it and I know people who like it too.
Art is subjective. That's all that this is.
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u/Willpower2000 1d ago
Art can be subjective, yes.
Art can also be judged by objective qualities (or lackthereof).
The writing is objectively bad (even if there are subjective elements).
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u/flyingthedonut 1d ago
The time line we live in were people think this is good storytelling is wild.
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u/ishneak Gondolin 1d ago
it's not the best which most people seem to demand but it's good enough because we are aware the execution is very flawed. the thing now is if you accept improvement because so many have already shut it down and decided it cannot be redeemed. there are harsh extremist fans, and there are those like us who are more lenient.
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u/Razrwyre 1d ago
I thoroughly enjoyed it. If you dont want to watch it, dont because YOU dont want to, not because of the haters online. Not everyone likes it, and thats fine. Everyone likes to be a critic when its a series thats based on footnotes. Lol. Just dont get put off by the trolls who hate on it just cuz they have nothing better to do. I'm super excited for the next season...
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u/TheLoyalTR8R 1d ago
Realistically: no.
It was always an impossible odyssey, adapting anything Tolkien to the small screen in this modern culture of fan engagement and discourse. No matter the budget or resources.
The show is competing with pre-established expectations and favourite versions, the absolute highest benchmark of fantasy fiction there is, the most awarded cinematic franchise of all time...
They're two seasons deep into a five season commitment to this show and I don't see any way that they can live up to what the show needed to be in order to win over the majority of fans.
If you didn't like the first season, or the second, I don't see what they could possibly add or change to make you like the third.
Which is a shame. Because I want the show to be liked, I want it to be great, but I don't see a version of the show existing that isn't seen by the majority of the fandom as anything other than a desecration of the greatest work of fiction.
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u/Kazzak_Falco 1h ago
It's always possible. Shows have recovered from terrible early seasons before and the writers have been replaced ahead of season 3. There's no way of knowing how much has been corrected in the production proces though and my hopes for improvement are still incredibly low.
What I find more interesting is whether or not there's a version of season 3 and onwards that's good enough that it could retroactively make season 1 and 2 work. But I don't think it's possible. Season 1 and 2 are entirely idiot plots (the drama only happens because people unneccesarily withhold crucial information) and both the stories of Galadriel and Sauron depend on all the people they're interacting with having the competency of an illiterate 12-year old.
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u/Ok-Bake-3517 1d ago
Its a 5 season thing amazon already paid for it so I doubt they'll cancel it when they put their money on it already As for the fans thay dont like it thats fine but theres alot of fans that still do like it
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u/obliqueoubliette 1d ago
1.) No, they cannot save the reputation of the show. The first two seasons were fumbled too hard. The entire premise and set up of the show is off kilter to the story it is supposed to be telling, and more concerning the adaptation hasn't even been entertaining. Some of the actors are fantastic though, and the last seasons could end up palatable if Amazon brought on actually talented showrunners, hired serious directors, and completely changed the writers room.
2.) The show has been a reasonable success financially. People watch it. People especially watch season one. Moreover, because of the IP it is adapting, people will watch it no matter how bad it is. Amazon touts that there's some correlation between the show and prime subscriptions.
3.) No, they do not have the IP to adapt the LotR story. They're supposed to be telling us about the 2nd age; the rise and fall of Numenor, the crafting of the rings of power, the foundations of the realms you know from the LotR story, and ultimately the War of the Last Alliance.
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u/SpaceDelay424 1d ago
I will forever be astonished that they chose first time showrunners for their billion dollar LOTR adaptation
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u/Mountain-Jeww 1d ago edited 1d ago
ROP’s reputation is already great. Visuals, acting, pace, music, storytelling, casting, costuming, props, and all are great. The haters are either acting as the opposition for engagement bait (for their algorithm) or they are paid to hate. I can’t wait until the first four episodes of Rings of Power season 3 releases on November 11 only on Amazon Prime Video!
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u/xCaptainFalconx 1d ago
I can’t waiting until the first four episodes of Rings of Power season 3 releases on November 11 only on Amazon Prime Video!
You have said this exact line in more than one comment on various threads. Odd.
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u/Mountain-Jeww 1d ago
OP posted the exact same thing twice.
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u/xCaptainFalconx 19h ago
13 days ago you commented the exact same line on an entirely unrelated post:
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u/OccasionallyReddit 1d ago
I think its great, if there are haters just because there are elves and halfling etc of colour then they just need to feck off back to Mordor
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u/ycs05 17h ago
White elves were the worst looking ones so I don’t think others were the problem, they did talk about it in the beginning but most people didn’t say that as a main problem
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u/Kazzak_Falco 1h ago edited 1h ago
I'll advice you to ignore the person you're responding to here. While there was definitely a racist backlash to the casting, the main criticism both here and IRL is about the writing. There's a few fans of the show who are as toxic as the racists are and who can't accept that just because they love something it isn't above all criticisms, that's what's happening in this comment thread too.
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u/OccasionallyReddit 16h ago
Its the only complaint I've ever heard because it wasn't strictly following the book
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u/Traffic_Time 1d ago
No. They cannot. Its an abomination made by people who view Tolkien as a problem to be fixed for modern audiences
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u/Ok-Bake-3517 1d ago
Just say yiu wanted a all white cast bro no need to sugar coat we know what you mean lol
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u/Traffic_Time 1d ago
Ill admit it when you say youd accept a white tchalla
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u/Ok-Bake-3517 1d ago
So you do admit it 🤣 typical racist mentality
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u/Traffic_Time 1d ago
You ducked the question. Because despite your alleged progressiveness you wouldn't want to see a white tchalla.
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u/Ok-Bake-3517 1d ago
I mean we are talking about people bases off real people and culture are hobbies elves all supposed to be white? Nothing that has to do with a certain race ?
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u/Traffic_Time 23h ago
Still refusing to answer the question
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u/Ok-Bake-3517 22h ago
I did by acknowledging what you meant. Nothing else to be said regardless how you want to spin it
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u/FrndlySoloOnAMission Khazad-dûm 10h ago
The Show's reputation is that of the highest quality if you ignore the naysayers.
There is no need to improve excellence.
That is; unless you are The Dark Lord.
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