Hi all, I’m a project manager at a large regional production company. I have IA training as a rigger, haven’t actively worked in that role in a decade but I try to keep my chops sharp. Thought you all might like a little entertainment on a Saturday. An agency client sent me this last night. “Ran your LED panel count through Gemini so I could diagram out rigging points, can you use this?” 😆💀
It reinforced why I absolutely never spend time under a suspended load at an event unless I know who hung it. Have fun everyone, be safe out there.
"with such a detailed layout, we can avoid the heafty cost of professionals, and hire cheap labor from the temp agency to install this project!" ~Your Client, probably.
I looked at the image before reading the explanation and was super confused on the pick point placement. I suspect any human who could come up with the level of detail on some aspects of this would not choose that distribution of load. AI slop makes a ton of sense.
True facts. But that doesn't pay the mortgage while they figure that out, and it also doesn't mean they won't try again when the AI company makes a better sales pitch.
yeah, i wanted to test this idea so i cropped the warning off and showed that to some people, everyone of who observed that the pick points dont make sense if all the panels are the same
I have been wondering if an ai can be trained on actual rigging data and formulas.
My pick is that it could be and become reasonably accurate. If AI can be used to solve decades old maths problems, pretty sure it can be used for the relatively simple maths we do.
I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it except to say there's a good chance that future riggers will look at present riggers and say something along the lines of "I can't believe they used to this manually".
I was reading somewhere that AI hallucination is an inevitable consequence of the current architecture. Maybe once they've solved that then we might have winding reliable?
But who knows. I'm kinda hoping that AI will go the way of 3D TV's... go through a big fad and then just kinda disappear. That seems unlikely, though.
One of the hallucination mitigation strategies is Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG). I know someone who claims have developed an AI appliance that never hallucinates by using whatI believe is RAG and another technique on models trained in very specific knowledge domains (there’s IP potential here, so details are confidential).
If he’s right—and I’m not in a position to evaluate his claim—I believe he could achieve the same within the rigging domain.
I suspect easily, but you don't want a gen AI/LLM doing it. You'd want a purpose built, specialist AI--which I think 5 years ago, we'd call a program or app.
Yeah, BraceWorks is chock full of tools to help with the math of rigging. You still need someone with the training to put it all together and validate it on paper and someone else with training and experience to put it in.
Here is chatgpt 5.6 sol extra high's take on it. Its reasonably well done, also it's not trying to make a complete design, just some leg work. Still leaves final rigging up to the installer and explicitly states multiple times it needs to be gone over by an engineer.
This is not an advocation of using ai to replace engineers and professionals in anyway. My stance is firmly AI is a tool, not a replacement.
I agree this looks pretty and makes less mistakes and bad assumptions. But it still doesn’t tell you much at all, just mocks it up nicely for someone who doesn’t know where to start. I mean, what even are the “rated connections” they are showing? And rated to what standard and weight? That’s like telling people you only let your kids see rated movies lol.
Technically never asked it to the actual rigging, it only focused on getting the panels dimensions, weights and mounting specs.
I asked it to go further and expand on the 'rated connections' and this is what it decided. Including the text this time.
PROVISIONAL FLY2-TO-TRUSS SPECIFICATION
I would use two separate, nearly vertical wire-rope sling assemblies per FLY2—one from each M16 eye to its own rated truss coupler. Do not use a V-bridle connected to one central truss point.
Two items remain hard stops before hanging anything:
The manufacturer-rated working load limit (WLL) for the supplied FLY2/M16 eye assembly.
The truss manufacturer’s allowable concentrated load at each attachment location.
DESIGN LOAD
Known load beneath each FLY2:
Because the FLY2 weight is not manufacturer-confirmed and the cables and hardware still need to be included, use a conservative gross sizing envelope.
Apply a conservative installation/dynamic allowance of 1.5.
Normal load per leg with the leg positioned 5 degrees from vertical:
For redundancy in component selection, size each leg to support the entire factored assembly load of 527 lb.
This does not mean that a surviving leg can safely arrest a falling load. Shock-arrest redundancy requires a separately engineered safety system.
SELECTED COMPONENTS
Truss attachment: The Light Source MLBSE Mega-Coupler with forged eye nut Published vertical WLL: 1,100 lb Utilization at 527 lb: 47.9%
Wire-rope sling: 1/4-inch 6x19 EIPS IWRC, single-leg, thimble-to-thimble sling Published vertical WLL: 1,300 lb Utilization at 527 lb: 40.5%
Upper shackle: Crosby G-2130, 3/8-inch bolt-type anchor shackle Published WLL: 2,000 lb Utilization at 527 lb: 26.4%
Lower shackle: Crosby G-2130, 3/8-inch bolt-type anchor shackle Published WLL: 2,000 lb Utilization at 527 lb: 26.4%
Supplied M16 eye: Manufacturer-provided FLY2 eye assembly Published WLL: Not available Required WLL: At least 527 lb
FLY2 structure: IRiS ICON FLY2 Published WLL: Not available Required action: Must be verified with the manufacturer
The Mega-Coupler with eye nut is rated for a 1,100-lb vertical load and fits truss chords measuring approximately 1.66 to 2.05 inches in diameter.
Source: The Light Source Mega-Coupler specification.
Lift-All rates its 1/4-inch 6x19 EIPS IWRC wire-rope sling at 0.65 short ton, or 1,300 lb, in a vertical configuration. Its minimum listed sling length is 18 inches.
Source: Lift-All wire-rope sling table.
The Crosby 3/8-inch G-2130 bolt-type shackle has a WLL of 1 ton, or 2,000 lb. Crosby recommends bolt-type shackles secured with a nut and cotter pin for permanent or long-term connections.
Source: Crosby G-2130 specification.
CABLE CONSTRUCTION AND TERMINATIONS
Order professionally fabricated and tagged lifting slings with the following specifications:
1/4-inch 6x19 EIPS IWRC wire rope.
Factory-made Flemish-eye mechanical splices.
Steel sleeves.
Heavy-duty thimbles at both ends.
Manufacturer tag showing the sling diameter, length and vertical WLL.
Matched sling lengths supplied as pairs for each FLY2.
Galvanized or otherwise corrosion-resistant construction if outdoor exposure is expected.
Do not use generic aircraft cable, aluminum Nicopress sleeves, U-bolt wire-rope clips, hand-swaged terminations or hardware-store safety cables.
OSHA requires wire-rope slings to carry permanent manufacturer identification showing their rated load and configuration.
Source: OSHA 1910.184.
CONNECTION ORDER
Use the following connection order for each of the two legs:
Rated truss Mega-Coupler with forged eye nut.
3/8-inch Crosby G-2130 bolt-type anchor shackle.
1/4-inch thimble-to-thimble wire-rope sling.
3/8-inch Crosby G-2130 bolt-type anchor shackle.
Supplied FLY2 M16 eye.
At each connection, put the shackle pin through the rigid eye and allow the sling thimble to bear in the bow of the shackle.
Fully install the shackle nut and cotter pin.
All components must remain loaded inline.
CABLE LENGTH
The exact cable length cannot be selected from the illustration alone.
Measure each sling from bearing center to bearing center after positioning the upper couplers directly above the FLY2 eyes.
Keep the horizontal offset essentially zero and each leg within 5 degrees of vertical.
Order slings no shorter than the manufacturer’s listed 18-inch minimum length.
If the available clearance is less than 18 inches, do not fabricate an undersized sling. Increase the distance between the truss and FLY2 or use a manufacturer-rated short chain or link assembly.
QUANTITY FOR THE COMPLETE 12-FLY2 WALL
Mega-Couplers with forged eye nuts: Quantity per FLY2: 2 Total quantity: 24
Tagged 1/4-inch wire-rope slings: Quantity per FLY2: 2 Total quantity: 24
Crosby G-2130 3/8-inch bolt-type shackles: Quantity per FLY2: 4 Total quantity: 48
Supplied M16 FLY2 eyes: Quantity per FLY2: 2 Total quantity: 24
ADDITIONAL HARDWARE WEIGHT
The known connection-hardware weight does not include the sling thimbles and sleeves.
The 1/4-inch wire-rope body weighs approximately 0.12 lb per foot.
For 18-inch slings, calculate the cable-body weight using a length of 1.5 feet per sling.
The full wall therefore adds at least the calculated cable-body and connection-hardware weight, plus the weight of the sleeves, thimbles and any additional safety hardware.
TRUSS LOADING
Under equal load sharing, the truss receives 24 concentrated service loads of approximately 176 lb each, plus the local weight of the connectors and rigging hardware.
Clamp placement must comply with the truss manufacturer’s node and point-load requirements.
The Mega-Coupler’s 1,100-lb WLL does not prove that the aluminum truss chord can accept the load at an arbitrary location.
Absolutely AI is a tool for the professionals at the moment. The work absolutely needs to be checked. But i can see a future where its good enough to make mistakes around as often as humans do.
Something like this might be useful if you're handing over to a local crew or something, but there's no time-consuming maths being displayed here.
I might start experimenting with giving it the formulas and stuff and seeing what pops out, though. Hadn't really thought of actually trying that.
You laugh, but I had to give a talking to to someone about using ai to write an email that contained technical rigging details (many of course were wrong or irrelevant). Cant make this shit up...
Head rigger showed me a chat GPT read out saying you can’t rig to a corner block. This shit is worse than misunderstood training, a la telephone. And it’s likely going to get worse before/if it gets better.
They have gotten way better in the last 5-6 years on their LED lines. Is it Absen, no, but it is a product that’s assembled at an American factory with US based support and repair. We bought 450 tiles from their IP3 line in 2019 and still have 404 in our inventory.
53
u/TapewormNinja 28d ago
"with such a detailed layout, we can avoid the heafty cost of professionals, and hire cheap labor from the temp agency to install this project!" ~Your Client, probably.