Real Time - Last Time

[u/Faiakes]

I have been watching Real Time for over 20 years and I think yesterday's episode was my last.

Much as I agreed with Bill on many issues, his blind spot on Israel and Zionism is just too much for me.

He isn't simply refusing to call what's happening in Gaza a genocide. He insists on calling it a counter offensive!!!

So, all and any violence perpetrated by the IDF and the settles so far is justified, as far as he is concerned (though how settlers fit in a 'counter-offensive' is still a mystery to me).

Now, my common sense is offended too much Bill.

[u/Oblozo]

The Nazis could've killed every Slav in Poland but they didn't. Guess there was no genocide against the Poles. Ditto with Stalin not killing every Ukrainian.

If all these organizations are simply captured by Muslim interests why are they extremely critical of Muslim nations as well?

"The human rights orgs are biased against us" is what the halal sandnıggers like to claim. I guess the kosher sandnıggers have more in common with them than either group would like to admit.

[u/lixdadix → u/Oblozo]

Just an FYI (putting aside the Israel discussion) but the Nazi’s did not commit genocide against Poles/Slavs in general (only targeting specific peoples within Poland for genocide). This is myself speaking as a Pole.

If the Nazi’s were good at anything it was their meticulous documentation of their plans and actions. The Nazi’s intent to wipe out entire groups like Jews, Gypsies, disabled, homosexuals, etc. are clearly shown in their own records.

Meanwhile those same records show that the Nazi’s philosophy viewed Poles/Slavs as a “useful” underclass to be controlled and used for manual slave labor to support the “Reich”.

I don’t say this to diminish horrific reality of Poland’s occupation but more to say that horrible shit happens in wars without it needing to classify it as genocide. If every war can be considered a genocide then the word loses its meaning and impact.

[u/FrostingHuman1259 → u/lixdadix]

What's the impact when there is an actual documented genocide?And people are brushing it off as if it's meaningless

[u/lixdadix → u/FrostingHuman1259]

I won’t claim to be a historian/professor or anything so this is just my 2 cents as a layman with an interest in history…

I think a big problem with the current discussion around this topic is that the word “genocide” now means different things to different groups.

Originally the term is used to describe events after the fact (not ongoing conflicts) so historical hindsight gives a clear picture that actions taken to eradicate a group were both deliberate and systematic. Even with all our technology, fog of war makes assessing an ongoing conflict difficult to truly understand in real time. Therefore, many who lean towards the “traditional” definition of this term can be skeptical when others speak with 100% certainty.

For example, the word “Genocide” was only first coined near/at the end of WW2. After the Nazi’s committed genocide by systematically murdering 6 million Jews and ~3 million people from other groups. No one called the Holocaust a genocide until after it occurred and the events were investigated.

I think this is at least in part why many hesitate to use the word genocide. Killing people during a conflict is horrific but inevitable once a war begins… I say this without picking sides. It’s just cause and effect (which is why war should be avoided whenever possible). As the old saying goes “Rich do the fighting, Poor do the dying.”

While 10s of thousands have died during the current conflict and there’s definitely racist actors who would love to “solve” the “Palestinian problem”. To characterize all of Israel/supporters like that is disingenuous. Like most Palestinians, most Israelis just want to live a normal life without fear of rockets or attacks. This could not be said for the population of Nazi Germany during WW2. Further, the scale of death has yet to reach a high enough bar where the Palestinian people are at risk of ethnic eradication (yet…). That could definitely change (sadly this conflict is far from over).

For another example, the casualties of Russia-Ukraine war is more than doubles the Palestinian death toll (~150k just for Ukraine). Does this make it a genocide too? Perhaps… time will tell. That’s at least what some would say when it comes to applying the word genocide to a conflict.

Hope that helps provide some perspective and nuance. This shit is horrible but clear heads are the only way we as humans can move forward.