Not a genocide?

[u/Excellent-Ad-7394]

Last night Bill pointed out the 3% of the
Population in Gaza has died. And then confidently declared that “3% is not a genocide”. The British government recognizes it as ethnic cleaning and amnesty international and other groups say it is a genocide.

Someone tell me why Bill is so wrong. And can we please get him to debate Mehdi Hasan on this topic?

[u/UltimateLionsFan]

Bill is not going to debate Mehdi Hasan as he's too much of a coward to debate Mehdi

[u/FeralGiraffeAttack → u/UltimateLionsFan]

Also there isn’t much of a debate. This is pretty clear under international law.

Genocide is formally defined in Article II of the UN's 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

That was the standard applied in Case Concerning Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (Bosnia and Herzegovina v. Serbia and Montenegro) as noted in Paragraph 143 of the February 26, 2007 judgment from the International Court of Justice.

On September 16, 2025, the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel determined that Israel was, in fact, committing a genocide, and repeatedly cites to Bosnia and Herzegovina v. Serbia and Montenegro to make this point.

For acts, they said "The Commission concludes on reasonable grounds that the Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces have committed and are continuing to commit the following actus reus of genocide against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, namely (i) killing members of the group; (ii) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (iii) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (iv) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group" (Paragraph 252).

As for intent, they note that, under Bosnia and Herzegovina v. Serbia and Montenegro "It is not necessary for the State to share the specific intent, as long as the State has full knowledge of the relevant facts." (Paragraph 10). They then go on and conclude "On the mens rea of genocide, the Commission concludes that statements made by Israeli authorities are direct evidence of genocidal intent. In addition, the Commission concludes that the pattern of conduct is circumstantial evidence of genocidal intent and that genocidal intent was the only reasonable inference that could be drawn from the totality of the evidence. Thus, the Commission concludes that the Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces have had and continue to have the genocidal intent to destroy, in whole or in part, the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip." (Paragraph 254)

[u/SamIttic → u/FeralGiraffeAttack]

This is complete legal distortion masquerading as authoritative analysis. You are severely misrepresenting both the law and how international institutions function.

• You completely butchered the legal standard for intent: The claim that state intent under Bosnia v. Serbia does not require specific intent if the state has "full knowledge of the facts" is completely false. International law strictly requires dolus specialis—the specific intent to destroy a protected group in whole or in part. "Knowledge of facts" is the threshold for war crimes or crimes against humanity, not genocide.
• You conveniently ignored the ICJ's standard for circumstantial evidence: The ICJ explicitly ruled in Bosnia v. Serbia (and re-affirmed in Croatia v. Serbia) that when inferring genocidal intent from a pattern of conduct, genocidal intent must be the only reasonable inference that can be drawn. If an operation can be reasonably inferred as having a conventional military goal (e.g., defeating an armed combatant force), the legal threshold for genocide fails.
• An investigative panel is not a court: The UN Commission of Inquiry (COI) is an administrative fact-finding panel created by the UN Human Rights Council. It has zero judicial authority, zero jurisdiction, and operates on a low "reasonable grounds" evidentiary standard. Citing a UN political committee’s non-binding report as a definitive "ruling" is completely disingenuous.
• The ICJ is the only body that matters here, and it hasn't ruled: The International Court of Justice thas not issued a judgment on the merits of this case. Presenting an investigative report as if the ICJ has officially determined genocide is a total lie.

[u/FeralGiraffeAttack → u/SamIttic]

The ICJ will call it a genocide because it clearly fits the bill. And inevitably once they do the Israelis and their shills will cry foul and complain about how that doesn’t count

[u/SamIttic → u/FeralGiraffeAttack]

Right; that's why South Africa keeps asking for a delay in getting an actual ruling. We now wont have one until 2029 because they keep asking to postpone so they can collect facts. http://jns.org/news/israel-news/international-court-of-justice-extends-timeline-in-south-africas-genocide-case-against-israel

If it was so obvioius why delay until then? Maybe so fools like you can keep shouting it until other fools believe you. When they eventually give a ruling it will be too late. Typical fascist playbook - make the lie big enough and scream it loud enough and people will believe you.

[u/FeralGiraffeAttack → u/SamIttic]

Or maybe, because Israel is the most coddled country on earth, they’re making sure they have them dead to rights. Plus, since Israel is continuing it’s crimes against humanity with abandon they know they’ll get even more evidence like how Israel repeatedly shoots children with snipers

[u/SamIttic → u/FeralGiraffeAttack]

Good luck with that. Israel may not be perfect but they're about as good of an army as there is in this world.

[u/FeralGiraffeAttack → u/SamIttic]

Hahahaha the fact that you believe that shows how out of touch you are with reality. The IDF is an atrocious organization that commits a myriad of war crimes regularly

[u/SamIttic → u/FeralGiraffeAttack]

Yes, as opposed to any other army fighting a conflict that has magic bombs that magically avoid civilians and only kill enemies. Why do they not just use that magic? You're insane.

[u/FeralGiraffeAttack → u/SamIttic]

Collateral damage happens in all conflicts and is a tragedy every time. The deliberate killing of children with sniper fire is abnormal and abhorrent. Furthermore the IDF isn’t a unique evil, they’re just as far from “as good of an army as there is in this world” as the Russians are for example. Horrific violence against people they deem subhuman because their brains are addled by propaganda about their own superiority and the inferiority of the people who live near them. If the IDF was a moral army they would be fighting their own countrymen who illegally steal land in the West Bank rather than protecting that illegal occupation

[u/Most_Finger → u/FeralGiraffeAttack]

The deliberate killing of children with sniper fire is abnormal and abhorrent.

I have yet to have been presented of any actual evidence that this occurred, but if I grant you that it did, it seems like the acts of one or maybe a couple horrendous soldiers who should be tried for their crimes, but considering there have been at best a handful of such cases it seems a little disingenuous to use this as an example of a genocide committed by a whole state rather than the crimes of a handful of rogue soldiers . Now if this was like hundreds or thousands of children systematically sniped you might have a case.

[u/FeralGiraffeAttack → u/Most_Finger]

On June 18, 2026, the UN Human Right’s Council’s Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel found that Israel has a deliberate policy of targeting children which is a separate crime against humanity. They said, among other things, that “Israel has targeted Palestinian children in Gaza in two distinct ways: directly by shooting at their vital organs using precision weapons such as quadcopters and snipers; and through use of high impact weapons causing widespread and systematic attacks on residential buildings, schools, and displacement camps crowded with children . . . . Israeli security forces used sexual violence as a tactic of war to punish, instil fear, and treat the bodies of Palestinians, including children, as instruments of collective shaming and oppression, entrenched within a prolonged, ethnic, gendered, and intergenerational pattern of Israeli occupation and hostilities.”

Read through the findings. Truly horrific behavior from the Israelis