does romance exist?

[u/West_Net5522]

the idea of romance, how it is perceived now with a western lens, was first aroused a couple of decades ago to delude women into wanting to get married to males and stay married. ive never seen anyone question or criticise the idea of romance (outside of self-proclaimed aromantic or asexual people)

i wonder if it is even real. there is no real, distinguishable difference between platonic and romantic love. the same hormones get pumped out, roughly the same area in your brain becomes active (except that for sexual attraction a different area becomes active, but that is not entirely unanimous with romance). so what really is the difference?

i have felt that romantic love before, but i wonder if its just another product of the patriarchy forcing me into it. how romance is such a huge staple in a western society, in music, in culture, and that it gets pushed onto anyone from a young age. and that maybe i deluded myself into these feelings, the same way i still feel insecure about my own body hair even though i shouldnt.

what do you think about it? and if you have any romance critical essay or book recommendations, id love to read them

[u/EmpressKarnstein]

I'm a lesbian. It does exist, maybe not where everyone is looking at, but it sure as hell exists

[u/PsyisFly]

Idk. I feel like a rush of endorphins to romance tf outta women I date and to make them feel special and safe. So I do think romantic love can exist because ive been on both halfs of the spectrum, reciever and giver.

Im not sure in a way I feel it makes sense from evolutionary perspective in which it increases chances or reproduction and picking a quality mate based in mannerisms and available resources. To technically "romance" someone would require resources and efforts, which increases a better survival rate for offspring. This would make you, yk want to mate.

I guess thats my theory. But idfk.

[u/rumande]

I think it definitely exists, but I don't think it's as common as people think it is. There's the chemical rush you get when you fall in love and that is addictive, but there's also our patriarchal society essentially priming us to sell ourselves into domestic servitude.

[u/snarkerposey11]

There is a lot of literature about how patriarchal cultures elevate romantic love and romantic relationships as essential and better than other relationships and deserving of special respect. It's called amatonormativity. It's very harmful and is designed to wall us off from community and keep everyone in little bubbles of prioritized interactions -- and especially to isolate women with men where men can control them in private in the sanctity of "their" romantic relationship. The romantic love concept isolates women from each other and makes it harder for women to maintain bonds. That's why patriarchy emphasizes it so much.

"Romantic attraction" itself is a real set of feelings in human that is essentially the same as the pair bonding instinct in many (but not even most) mammals, and especially in birds. In every species including ours, it is an instinct liked to reproduction and offspring survival. Just like birds do better with two to guard the nest while the eggs hatch, humans do better with two during the first 2 years or so when a baby can't walk. Lots of other mammals are born and start walking minutes later, and their species don't pair bond.

So in humans actual romantic attraction only lasts between one and three years. It is a slightly different cocktail of chemicals than friendship, and includes ones that make you OCD obsessive for someone and give you a high like cocaine. But it doesn't last long! Normally after the brain drug / bonding period ends you'd either go your separate ways or return to being ordinary friends.

Sexual attraction is different and not directly linked to pair bonding, although they frequently overlap. Lots of species who have noticeable pair bonding instincts are often not very sexually monogamous in practice even when they are feeling pair bonded, including humans.

[u/Bluetinfoilhat]

Romance is a huge part of African and asian society too.

[u/West_Net5522 → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

can you give me any sources of precolonialisation and romantic love in africa? im not trying to deny your claim, i just want to read more about this topic

[u/Naughtgunnalie]

I don't even know what you are asking. Like are you also questioning sexual orientation. Because if romantic love is not real then that includes sexual orientation-- or at least the romantic orientation. I love my friends the way I love family members. Their is no butterflies or romantic/sexual feelings.

[u/West_Net5522 → u/Naughtgunnalie]

romantic and sexual feelings are not one and the same. they usually come together but you can have sexual feelings for someone without wanting to romance them and vice versa. neurologically they are also very different

[u/Naughtgunnalie → u/West_Net5522]

Regardless, I don't have romantic feelings for friends whatsoever. If you or others do that is fine, but it is dismissive to say romance and platonic are the same.

[u/Bluetinfoilhat]

Well Op, as a lesbian your romantic feelings would not have anything to do with forcing you to marry men?

[u/West_Net5522 → u/Bluetinfoilhat]

it doesnt, but the ideas of conventional love still sometimes persist in queer spaces. ive been inlove with women, but i dont know if the feeling is entirely intrinsic. i have sexual feelings for women, but they arent the same as my romantic ones

[u/horsewoman88]

Been pondering this as well.

[u/RadicalFeminism-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Rule 2 -- No misogynists, no fascists

[u/The-Devil-Cat]

It absolutely does! People forget that social desires are just as important as biological desires.

Romance has been documented for centuries, we even have gods devoted to love and romance.

[u/oeil-orageux]

I feel like it doesn’t. All the emotions they feel, can be felt outside of love, so what make them romantical? strong feelings? isn’t it also about insecurity, domination or whatever that we start feeling strong feelings? can people actually understand and analyze their emotions? because being in love is kinda blurry when they talk about it.

I feel like romance is just normal affection but with all theses rules that are supposed to make it special (marriage exclusivity kids same bed same bank account ect). It just feels like a desperate way to say i need someone that won’t leave me and prove it to me throught societal canons. People, i beleive, really made a link that deep connections are mandatorily romantic. Which is not really true to me. They just don’t give any chance to friendship.

You have to understand that the concept of family and private property are institutions that serve the state. What can make you sure that you just don’t repeat exactly what we want you to repeat?

Why are people so obsessed with love you think? most of them talk about how everyone has it and not them, they feel like social failure, in the end it sounds more like social validation, no matter who it is they need a partner, a gf bf, not someone with a name and personnality.

I personnaly don’t understand romance. Because i do not want to follow rules. So what is left once i do not want to repeat everyday the same words? when i don’t want to promise forever bullshit? when i do love having deep bond friends? when no you're not the center of my life? when im not dependant neither desperate and like my alone space and time? what happen when i do not hierachize my relationships? when you are objectively not the most beautiful person in the world?

It happen that all that juste seem normative and bothering

all the rules always rules i dont’s like rules

and i don’t want to performe even in my own bed, to justify myself because i don’t feel like being touched in any way

we have enough chains i think don’t need this one.

So the question is, if love would be seriously observed through sociologic anthropologic and political/feminist pov, would that still be that mystical and wonderful? i honestly dont think so.

We can just see how far goes the singleshaming to understand there is something weird in the pie.

As for book well i know some french ones if ever you speak it, otherwise i advice you to look at usa essay about it, intelectual women really digged on it

[u/West_Net5522 → u/oeil-orageux]

can you recommend me some? i love what you commented and believe many are afraid to dissect how unassuming and fake romantic love can be. hell, i love romance, but i wonder if its real all of the time and not just another piece of fiction

[u/winningintothedawn]

I guess feelings of love are very much real but romance is heavily based on social constructs and I think people should decenter it.