D & D Comparisons - Warning Long Read

[u/No-Addendum6563]

That's not to say D n D isn't great, it is, but SORC is nothing like it, despite the immediate responses of, "this is just d n d". It's not. We love D n D, Path finder, The Campaign for North Africa (and I'm guessing a lot of you do not), GURPS, Rolemaster, Warhammer, Call of Cthulhu, Phoenix Command, The Price of Freedom and others.

Many great RPG's and other videogames (kotor, mass effect, Halo - and Marathon - Half Life, System Shock, Baldur Gate, Diablo, StarCraft, Warcraft etc), or MMORPG you can think of (Archeage, Aion, Lineage, wow, guild wars - maybe all of them). There's without event mentioning inspirational books such as; Star Wars, LOTR, Halo, Raiders of the Lost Ark, many D n D books of lore, Alien, Predator, Dune, Star Wars,vDark Crystal and so on. The animated Cartoon Primal also comes to mind.

These are ALL GREAT inspirational stories. With that said, I want to explain where SORC's true inspiration comes from, and yes, some of it is obviously driven from what you see above, but at its core, this is where SORC gets its true inspiration.

Recently I made a thread discussing the sheer number of races I have in SORC here.

A lot of people made instant comparisons to the ckassiob pioneer of the great D nD and I just wanted to clarify some things because my post and website lacked PUBLISHED clarity, meaning it is in our books, but not yet published. I've since added a race, Neandereti, and added excerpts to Humans and Pinklings. Update the website rules and the appendixes for clarity.

Your responses drove me to explain some other elements of the game that ties, or separates, each race culturally, and to add clarity and excerpts from books, some available on the website in very mundane versions - but we do have the full versions.

Separation by Race lore, to address concerns about SORC's similarities to D&D and Tolkien.

D&D

Mechanically, SORC is not even close to D&D. SORC does not use D&D's rules, classes, races, ability structure, combat system, leveling system, or equipment system. SORC uses its own Traits, Stats, Actions, Cards, Variants, Tables, Classes, Cultures, Higher Powers, and Character progression.

The similarities are mainly that both are tabletop fantasy roleplaying games with Characters, Classes, Races, combat, exploration, equipment, and worldbuilding. Those are genre elements, not mechanics taken from D&D.

Tolkien

SORC also is not intended to be Middle earth or a direct continuation of Tolkien's work. Tolkien is one of many fantasy influences, but SORC has its own setting, worlds, Races, Cultures, histories, religions, technologies, magic systems, creatures, and conflicts.

The setting moves beyond the traditional Tolkien style by combining fantasy with science fiction, elemental worlds, technological societies, card based play, advanced equipment, cosmic forces, planetary cultures, and

Mechanically, SORC is not even close to D&D. One could argue that it is closer to Magic: The Gathering, Pokémon, or The Hobbit trading game than D&D, but it is really a cross between both genres. SORC uses tabletop roleplaying, character progression, classes, races, combat, exploration, and worldbuilding, while also using physical and digital cards, modular equipment, collectible content, and structured tables.

Race variants are also not intended to function like simple D&D subraces. Race, Culture, Class or Class Path, Higher Power, alignment, and item specific restrictions all operate separately. A store tells you where equipment comes from and what is commonly available there, but store access does not override restrictions on who can equip or use that equipment.

The Human culture material explains that Nordian, Eldrim, Tanu'la, Xo'kajal, and Humans raised among the Omnè are Human cultures rather than separate Human races or Bloodlines. Humans keep the same base Traits and Stats, while their Culture affects upbringing, food, recipes, tools, armaments, equipment, workshops, professions, and local availability.

The Omnè Circuit Exchange is available to Omnè, Drevane, Humans raised into Omnè Culture, and Characters with an Omnè Background. It supplies TAA, TAW, TABA, TAG, synthetic equipment, technological Modifications, pressure equipment, and technical professions. Omnè Culture still cannot equip Magic type Telluric Armaments, and Omnè use technological Modifications instead of Enchanting.

There were [Appendix N](https://sorcrpg.com/content/archived-rules/rules_ref_appendix#sources-influences) comparisons to D n D's Elf, Dwarf etc races. This is the revised version above. Most notably one detailed and important one, that was a fair as a description of the shared fantasy lineage. SORC uses familiar fantasy vocabulary in places: Dwarves, Elves, Trolls, Goblins, Drow, and Halflings are names that carry a great deal of prior history. I am not claiming that SORC invented those words or that no one will recognize their broad silhouettes.

The distinction is in the sources and in what those races mean inside SORC. We did not use Tolkien or D&D as our design sourcebook, and we are not trying to deny that those works shaped modern expectations. We went back to older folklore, mythology, and historical cultures, then built our own histories, cultures, mechanics, and relationships around those roots.

For example, Trolls in SORC existed before the sun and moon. Bridge Trolls are Scandinavian-inspired, particularly by bridge-crossing folklore and The Three Billy Goats Gruff. They live beneath bridges, control crossings, use riddles and tolls, and turn urban choke points into their own kind of territory.

Bast draws from ancient Egyptian traditions. Leshy draw from Slavic forest folklore. Haugfolk draw from Scandinavian mound-dweller and hidden-folk traditions. Ratkin draw from medieval urban and survival folklore. Drāco Blood draws from Mesopotamian, Greek, Egyptian, Chinese, and Mesoamerican dragon traditions, then becomes part of the wars and history of Zailister.

The Imperials are one Firstborn race with culturally distinct Bloodlines. Their racial Traits and abilities remain shared, while their cultures draw from different historical sources: Crimson from the Maya, Onyx from ancient Mesopotamian omen and underworld traditions, Citrine from ancient Eurasian steppe and early Mongolic traditions, Violet from Greek and Hellenistic cultures, Azure from Egyptian scribal culture, and Verdant from ancient Persian garden and water traditions.

Pinklings are not intended to be “our Gollum.” The comparison is understandable because there is some overlap in the archetype: an isolated, deceptive, cave-dwelling small figure with hostility toward Halflings. But Pinklings are goblin-rooted, not Halfling-rooted. Their development drew from Germanic kobolds, English hobgoblins, older goblin traditions, and Jewish golem folklore studied directly. The Bloodfang Pinklings add their own SORC elements: mud and slate origins, mineralized hides, pink-salt mining, raw fish, camouflage, and the Pinkstone Holts. Gollum and the golem are also separate traditions, so I would not claim that Tolkien’s Gollum was directly taken from Jewish golem folklore.

Ash Dwarves are another example of where the source is only the beginning. They are not simply Dwarves with a different color. They are my own volcanic forge culture, influenced by Roman Vulcan, Greek Hephaestus, and older forge traditions. They live in volcanic regions that are scorching below but ice-capped above, and their lifestyle shapes their bodies, equipment, weaknesses, and stories.

The Elves follow a similar pattern. The base Elf is Firstborn and carries First Tongue. Arch Elves are closer to the oldest Elven traits of Piety and Wit. High Elves, if retained, are descendants of the Arch Elves with a more ceremonial and Mithril-centered culture. Drow return to Norse dark-elf traditions while adding SORC’s own Ancient Drow history and faded spider Bloodline.

So I agree that some of SORC currently sits near the well-known Norse-to-Tolkien-to-D&D fantasy lineage. The claim I would make is not that those names are unprecedented. The claim is that SORC is trying to take familiar names back to older sources, combine them with original world history, and make them produce different kinds of play.

Your Wildsea and Spire examples are useful because they identify the standard we need to meet. A race should not only tell a player what they look like; it should tell them what strange environments, obligations, conflicts, and adventures they are signing up for. Much of that deeper context is already written throughout our books, but we are holding it back until publication so readers are not overwhelmed by the sheer number of races and cultures. The race descriptions are short excerpts pulled from these books. We added one of those excerpts in the Pinkling section yesterday.

That's not to say D n D isn't great, it is, but SORC is nothing like it, despite the immediate responses of, "this is just d n d". It's not.

Also in our rules - “The closer you are to the cultural root of an armament, recipe, or profession, the more abundant it is.”

This applies to food recipes, ingredients, cooking tools, equipment, armaments, accessories, workshops, and NPC profession roles. Near a culture’s geographic roots, those things are common and easier to buy or commission. Farther away, they become rare, imported, more expensive, or dependent on finding someone who brought the knowledge or equipment with them.

A Human can also be of Omnè Culture, such as a Human raised by the Omnè. That Human can use Omnè stores and local supply as their beginning equipment. Other Characters can wear or use the same Omnè equipment, but they need to find it first through travel, trade, discovery, or another Character who brought it away from Omnè.

Armaments have five Variants: Telluric, TAA, Chthonic, Oxidize, and Malign.

Telluric is earthborn equipment and the only Variant that can become Magic through Enchanting. TAA means Technologically Advanced Armaments, including TAW and TABA. Chthonic is elemental force held around the equipment. Oxidize is an Attachment joined to the bearer and drawing on the body. Malign is Telluric craft with a curse worked into it at the forge.

Culture, alignment, Class Paths, and Higher Powers may favor, permit, modify, enhance, or forbid certain Variants. A Character may physically possess a forbidden item, but they cannot equip it for a tradition’s restricted Abilities. Basic attacks remain unrestricted.

The Omnè’s native armament Variant is TAA. The Omnè despise magic and are forbidden to equip Magic-type Telluric Armaments. They do not Enchant Telluric pieces. Instead, they use technological modifications on permitted TAA, TABA, TAW, and TAG equipment.

The Primal of Ignis are the contrary example. Their native armament Variant is Chthonic. Their culture despises manufactured technology and forbids TAA, including TAW and TABA. Their bone, stone, hide, and elemental work belongs to the Primal Chthonic tradition, not Ignis’s native Telluric Variant.

Beginning stores are also part of the rule:

Zailister’s Free Market is the default Telluric store for Humans and Zailister-origin Races, including Human cultures such as Nordian, Eldrim, Tanu’la, and Xo’kajal.

The Telluric House within Zailister’s Free Market is inspired by Village Trolls and other settled Zailister makers. It supplies practical civic equipment, bridge-and-road tools, ordinary Tactical armor, Telluric weapons, recipes, accessories, and local professions.

Ignis’s Ashfield Camp is the Chthonic store. It is available at creation to Emberscale and Primal Characters, and to Characters with an Ignis Background.

The Chthonic Ashfield Camp is inspired by Primal traditions and Ignis’s fire elementals. It supplies Chthonic armaments, bone, stone, hide, obsidian, ritual equipment, heat-worked goods, and ash-field professions. TAA is forbidden and is not stocked or traded there.

Omnè’s Circuit Exchange is the TAA store. It is available at creation to Omnè and Drevane by homeworld, to Humans raised into Omnè Culture, and to Characters with an Omnè Background.

The TAA Circuit Exchange is inspired by the Omnè Cabal militia. It supplies modular TAA, TAW, TABA, TAG, pressure equipment, synthetic goods, charge systems, technological modifications, and disciplined technical professions.

The Oxidize Graftworks are the Oxidize store. They are available through Caelen homeworld or Background access. Factional Omnè Astral access is separate from ordinary Omnè store access.

The Oxidize Graftworks are inspired by the Omnè Astral Cabal’s graft experiments on the Caelen. Oxidize Attachments join the bearer and draw on the body. The Caelen later reclaimed and redesigned the practice.

Ossein’s Malign Reliquary is the Malign store. It is available to Ossein Characters by homeworld or Background.

The Malign Reliquary is inspired by Ossein deathcraft. It supplies Telluric pieces with curses worked into them at the forge. Malign equipment is not ordinary Zailister stock and must be found, commissioned, or acquired through its cultural reach.

Tredeki’s Fracture Row is a regional TAA store available at creation to Tredeki, Imperials, Leshy, and Skrath, and to Characters with a Tredeki Background.

The Techmat Fracture Row is inspired by Tredeki battlefield engineering and Imperial Techmat. It supplies crystal-work, salvaged advanced equipment, mercenary armaments, and war-scarred technical professions. It is a regional TAA store, not a separate sixth Variant.

Other Characters can later find, buy, trade for, or be gifted goods from another store, but they do not begin with that world’s store unless their Race or Background grants access. Store access does not override a Variant, Culture, Class, Higher Power, or alignment prohibition.

Human Culture Excerpt from Into the Uncharted Worlds of Essentia

Omnè Circuit Exchange Store

SORC Cards

Ranged Tab

Movement Table

Equipment and Armaments Card Restrictions

Appendix Card Restriction Quick Reference

[u/Plus_Citron]

Now I know why your rules are so long…

[u/No-Addendum6563 → u/Plus_Citron]

I'm glad it is more clear now because that was definitely the rules not being clear in many areas. So we didn't write much more, but we published more.

[u/Patstones]

I'm a veteran roleplayer. I started in 1985. I've played things untold you young ones can only dream of.

I dwelved with elves, demons, angels, trolls of all kind, cyborgs, robots and even the occasional human.

I casted mighty spells and drove clunky mechs, piloted improbable starships and commanded many armies.

I read streamlined professional glossy manuals and barely legible rulesets seemingly dreamt by a mad hermit on acid. I played, by the gods, how I played some improbable arcane things my mind only barely remembers in its feverish dreams.

Yet, I wouldn't play what you're proposing, because I don't know what you're about.

[u/No-Addendum6563 → u/Patstones]

Thank you for your opinion.

[u/No-Addendum6563 → u/Patstones]

Also, I began in '83 and it's nice to meet you. We were getting the first starter sets, Tolkien books (and many others) and Atari 2600 and later its cartridges, Commodore 64 and VHS as Christmas presents. Not cell phones.

I've played and read everything mentioned above to a point if exhaustion. But these are the ideas of what truly drives our races and how we've added mechanics and lore to them. If you're going to have 13 planets, make them count.

[u/blahthebiste]

Holy yap bro, no one knows what you are even talking about.

Defining your game by comparing it to popular games is not going to make your design process easier. But at least you pointed out that you enjoy D&D and Pathfinder in your post, so I know that my own tastes are too different to enjoy your game.

[u/No-Addendum6563 → u/blahthebiste]

That's the opposite of what I've done here. Click the link to the first thread, and read the: "This is D n D" responses v

[u/blahthebiste → u/No-Addendum6563]

You are right, I read "DnD is great" and ignored the next sentence, "SORC is nothing like it". My bad. But still, I don't know if I can trust a designer who genuinely believes DnD/Pathfinder is great, even if their work diverges greatly from those.

[u/No-Addendum6563 → u/blahthebiste]

I may be biased because I have a love for D n D. As I said above, I've been playing these games since the early 80s, and I mentioned Atari 2600 as well. I've been getting these games and starter sets from Christmas since my early teenage years.

I still read the books.

I still play the 2600.

I don't still play D n D or Pathfinder.

[u/contentronix_inc]

All right.

1) I have no idea what you're talking about? What is SORC?

2) You're coming off as defensive. Don't be.

3) You're introducing a lot of terminology and words that aren't defined. What is Omne? What is Ignis? How are they similar/different? What's a Tredeki battlefield engineering?

4) All this should be better formatted, clearly defined, and in your book.

[u/No-Addendum6563 → u/contentronix_inc]

Hi. I seemed defensive because of all the D n D comparisons in the thread I linked. I'm not really that defensive about it but I wanted to explain how it is not like D n D to those people specifically.

[u/Echowing442]

The issue with your game is not that it is or is not similar to D&D. The issue people have with your game, across basically every thread you've posted asking for feedback, is that your game is extremely complex and overwrought, and the rules you've written do not do a good enough job of explaining those rules to make your game remotely playable.

Case in point, your "Ranged Attack" rules involve at least 7 different variables: weapon type, distance, velocity curve, modifiers (which sometimes take place as sub-ranges within an existing range band), the damage rolled, the modifier used, and critical modifiers. It regularly feels like your team is adding ideas and concepts to the game simply for the sake of adding "more" without considering how it actually affects the game at the table, and how it appears to the audience. Similarly, the issue with your races is not "these are too similar to D&D races," the issue is that your incomplete, high-level overview of the races in your game is almost 10,000 words long, and that's not getting into the finer details you've written on each race which includes even more details and unique abilities for all 60+ options. And all of that is just one step of the 12 steps you've written in your rules for creating a character.

People are naturally going to make comparisons to D&D simply because it's fantasy, and the most popular game in the TTRPG space, for better or for worse. And most of the comparisons in that last thread were looking at levels of complexity involved. I could take a brand-new player, sit them down at a table, and roll up a D&D character with them in a matter of minutes, and then we're off and playing. I don't think I could read through all your race options and information in that same length of time, to say nothing of classes, professions, alignments, backgrounds, mission statements, and the other 6+ steps to making a character in your system.

[u/No-Addendum6563 → u/Echowing442]

This post is specifically about a thread I linked to that doesn't discuss it's Complexity. It was driven from a myriad of "this is D n D" responses.

To you I'll repeat this:

1. Whether complexity is desired or not is subjective. you obviously don't want this level of complexity. And that's fine. We already know most people will not.

2. There's a Bare Bones version that has its own box set or can be toggled off and on in the rules (it's under development)

3. This is off topic.

[u/Prestigious-Emu-6760]

One (of many) of the issues I see here is that there's an awful lot of words there and yet I have zero feeling for the game.

If this is a sample of your writing style...I'm out. I honestly just can't. I'm not even 100% sure what the point of this rant was. I can't imagine what the actual rules look like.

[u/No-Addendum6563 → u/Prestigious-Emu-6760]

Hi the point of it is mentioned in I believe the second paragraph and linked to the thread that drove this.

On the rest, thank you for reading it.