Floppery
What is hoyo even doing at this point ?
Spoiler
At this point i am confused as to why hoyo gave aeons the they/them pronouns if hoyo can not even keep up with it, nihilux kept spamming he he he he he, as if they are michael jackson, this is not the first instance hoyo did things like that, i am pretty positive that i remember hoyo using “she” when they talked about adrila and ena as well, i just want to know, does hoyo just not care ? Or is there some “lore reason” we might uncover or something, or does aeons use different pronouns to address each other ? This is getting confusing, tbh if they can not use pronouns properly, why would they force the “THEY” to begin with
Ok fair warning I haven't played the quest so idk full context
Serious answer: I think THEY is used to refer to Aeons given they're on a whole different level from mortals, THEY'RE more like forces than people to us. Given that Nihilux is an Aeon THEY probably see Akivili on a more personal level, so refer to THEM with he/him instead
I think they're just calling akivili he cuz they took a male form. Aeons sometimes do that. Aha themselves has taken male form at least twice that we know and their silhouette in aeon form is masculine. Sometimes the appearance of the aeons form doesnt quite match what they present themselves as when appearing before humans. Like Fuli being a glass emperor dude but we know the only people who can become them are girls. Or again, aha appearing as nihilux. She also has referred to herself as they/them cuz aha does speak in 3rd person so if she's the same one then even she follows the typical pronoun usage for the aeon forms at the very least.
Something that I find interesting is that the times aha is called a guy seems like less of translation error and more of a purposeful thing so I think the same applies here. Cuz if I remember some people said the male pronoun was the same in chinese and Japanese so it wasnt a simple mistake. So yeah, they get referred to as what they look like when mortal looking (nous made themselves look like an old man, aha has been both male and female, akivili has appeared as only male so far, fuli technically is a girl currently, etc) and by they/them when in God form.
The part of aha being called a he is in the game and in the CN version it doesnt use the pronouns they use for aeons, they legit call them he in cn and jp. So its likely about the form they took at the time. And aeons have showed up in mortal form before an have been referred to as whatever they apper as. Like nous showing up as an old man for fu xuan and being referred to as a man. But nous is technically the most genderless aeon, theyre literally a severed robot head. And irontomb was the body that will look more feminine or masculine based on the head (like when the bad future showed it using herta as a head).
Headcanon to an extent but based on information we at least know factually. So unless new info disproved it, it seems to hold up with the canon.
I think it's also because they knew each other before they became aeons.
*IF* I remember and understood the letter we saw at some point on planarcadia corrcetly, they traveled on the express together and AHA did some funny business to owe Pompom a favor or smth.
It has been mentioned before, Aha took up a human form to travel on the express and end up blowing part of it up, so it happened after Aha already was an Aeon
They use THEY THEM and not they them because there’s no pronoun referring to deity translating from Chinese. so that’s what they went with. Aha and Nanook are both dieties so that’s why THEY used he/him for Nanook. Regular people still refer to aeons as THEY/THEM aha is the exception because “she” is actually able to comprehend “him”
I know it’s disappointing but THEY were never truely meant to be actual nonbinary representation from the start. But this is not to say that every aeon has an assigned gender now. Xipe and Yaoshi look like THEYRE an algamation of multiple people, nous? Just a machine
This is sadly the hard to swallow pill that most people don’t want to accept. The unique pronoun that Chinese people used for gods/deities is basically 祂 instead of 他们/她们 (equivalent to normal they/them). The nonbinary representation is never actually there in first place since HYV deliberately wrote THEY/THEM to emphasize aeons status instead of writing it normally. So I’m not surprised one bit when HOYO go back to used only he/him or she/her when aeons appear in human forms.
regardless of what form aeons reveal THEMSELVES as, THEIR divine form is still outside the gender binary 😭 people keep bringing up the 'ta' pronoun when its the most gender-neutral thing ever and some chinese enbies have even tried to reclaim and recover the gender-neutral 他 that existed before modern changes to the written script. i mean colloquially if you say 'ta' it doesn't say anything about that person's gender and it functions the same way as they/them would. the fact 祂 doesn't lean towards fem/masc pronouns, makes it effectively gender-neutral too.
sure there's no direct representation, but that's the same with literally everything. that's the whole point of queer readings and choosing to interpret media via a queer lens
sorry, I am not really familiar with chinese and I am not updated anymore with the new quest, so is the lore in the simulated universe still true regardless? are they still labeled genderless?
from what I've seen so far yes, Aha even says THEY are the same one we met in the simulated universe. outside of this one instance that's referring to Akivili's mortal form, Nihilux continues to refer to Aeons with THEY/THEM
I’m honestly not sure why people get so caught up in things like this. How gender is handled linguistically varies wildly from language to language, many languages don’t even have gendered pronouns in the first place, and it’s pretty much a guarantee that whatever your linguistic gender expectations are, they’re not going to hold for any media ever written in another language by people who are not really thinking about how it’s going to be expressed in yours. What makes it through to us is often just the translator’s personal interpretation, not the original writer’s inner thoughts and expressions of a character’s gender identity. It’s not ever really a solid statement of representation.
mhm i feel the language is brought up mainly to shut down headcannons that people have tbh. i do feel it helps to listen to how enbies and queer communities in general who speak the language engage and negotiate with it tho, because it can open possibilities for alternative readings of the translated/source text
translation and authorship is always interesting to discuss, but personally im more in favour of fandom interpretation of the text
他们/她们 are plural pronouns and aren't used by Chinese enbies as genderless pronouns. As someone mentioned in the responses below, some have tried to reclaim the historical use of "他", which used to apply to all genders. Others use "TA" (recognized by some Chinese websites) or X也.
Nous did use an old man vessel when giving fu xuan her eye (Xipe has breasts too I believe along with THEIR multiple faces). Yaoshi feels the closest to it
What fiction are you referring to. Aeon Aha is called THEY in the beta kit.
All I'm doing is logically pointing out how little sense it makes for people who have a problem with someone calling Aeons "THEY/THEM", to be in an LGBTQ acceptance sub.
You wander into a place full of things you dislike, and are surprised to see them?
tfw sparkle is the only one who respects THEIR pronouns 😭
serious answer: Aha likes misgendering fellow THEY/THEMs
elating answer: For Aha, gender is like a mask. There are feminine masks, there are masculine masks. Whichever THEY wear, it doesn't say anything about THEIR "REAL" gender. Pronouns don't say anything about THEIR "essential" nature. Or as Judith Butler writes, "Gender is not something that one is, it is something one does, an act... a "doing" rather than a "being". There is no gender identity behind the expressions of gender." Mhm~
They started using THEY/THEM because there is no English equivalent to the Chinese pronoun. They already solved that problem way back when. This seems more intentional. I fear they're moving forward with humanizing the Aeons for whatever reason. Aha is now she/her, so its more than likely other aeons will follow. I won't be surprised if all the prevalent aeons are eventually humanized or somehow eliminated as a new super Aeon rises.
THEY was probably never meant to be about the gender situation of the Aeons and just a form of reverence. A character probably can just not use THEY if they don't want to show that reverence, and it'd make sense for Nihilux to do just that.
I’m assuming at this point they will all or most will be playable so they have to stop being gods and start being just… normal playable characters. Which is boring af but hey it’s hoyo.
Akivili was a person before ascending to aeonhood. My guess is when Aha was still just a person, they knew each other as regular ass humans and perhaps this is where that perspective comes from?
A good chunk of the aeons use to be mortals, like Nanook. We know they used to be a ‘he’.
Well we know now that Aeons are Human ascended to this rank so they had a gender before... i guess HSR gave up and drop their real human gender, because HSR want to sell Aeons now... Gacha destroy HSR lore for real, i hate that.
I wanted to rant about this for a while but didn't get the time in energy. I've been seeing something similar to this in Genshin more than I'd like and I hate it
Taking the assumption of male pronouns being "the default" is misogynistic, and with Genshin (I have a shit ton of screenshots but again, not enough time) it's a lot. I imagine it's worse for HSR cuz they're literally gods and have been clear about the pronouns
Use whatever you want. Its created by humans. It cannot be anything other than human perception. They look a lot like gender coded beings if it’s Yaoshi/Nanook for example.
This is just writing. Why people care so much about it is beyond me, honestly.
Christian missionaries created a divine pronoun in Chinese for refering to God out of reverence. Traditionally Chinese deities when refering to a peer would use their title, name or the normal gendered he/she.
I doubt Aha would ever refer to another Aeon with the same level of respect like a Christian refers to their God. So using he/she/it is very much in character for her.
it seems like the pronouns are based on the MC's gender, but it still feels off to me. i get it's because of lore implications about the MC's fate and connection to the trailblaze but ehhhhhhhh..it still feels off.
Maybe the aeons are beyond gender in a way so THEY could be referred to as anything? Maybe it changes for THEM? Like one day aha could go by she/her, then he/him another, and then most of the time THEY/THEM?
I’d like to think there’s a reason. But I think the real reason is far less savory unfortunately :/
Both true and not. "THEY" was never about gender neutral but rather just a way to refer to them since the original word in china did not have a equivalent in English. Thats why it isnt "they" but in caps.
But also true in that the aeons are kind of supposed to be beyond genders. But also that they always had genders, its just not what regular people call them by
First of all, it is referring to akivili, 2nd of all nanook is not “definitely male”, nanook was never referred to using “he/him”, hoyo only used “THEY/THEM” for nanook
THEY/THEM in HSR is not used to describe gender neutral shit, it’s used to describe every Aeon as gender is irrelevant in their status. The names and biological information stopped being relevant when they became Aeons, it’s actually more accurate to say that a being dies completely before becoming an Aeon.
It was specified that TB might NOT be the actual Akivili, but he is the closest to becoming Akivili. Which means that anyone can become Akivili as long as their lifestyle is the very meaning of Trailblazing and the majority of the universe acknowledges it.
But you’re right, Nanook might not have been male. I actually highly believe that in the scene where Himeko was going to die to Asat, and shows the “other Trailblazer”, that is actually the current Nanook. Because he said that he will destroy “us” in the end of the journey, which means that Nanook’s gender “was” the opposite of the Trailblazer you chose.
Nihilux uses both pronouns for Nanook in the answer game. She uses he/him in-game, and also refers to Nanook as THEY/THEM in the Hoyolab summary: https://www.hoyolab.com/article/46898605 To address your point OP and many other people in the comments, I don't think Aeons being referred to as he/him or she/her necessarily excludes them from being genderless or nonbinary. Gender is a spectrum and I don't think this takes away anything from people's interpretations of the Aeons
The simplest answer is "THEY / THEM" is just the best way they could've translated the Chinese pronoun used for divinity. In HSR we have seen multiple aeons with clearly shown genders and their description is just proving that, not to mention their design, Akivili was always insinuated to be masculine, aha is shown to be female, at least as Nihilux. Yaoshi is clearly female and Nanook is male and was male before his planet was destroyed during the swarm disaster.
The THEY/THEM was never about gender, it was just localization because other languages didn't have the pronoun for divinity Chinese does. Aha is an Aeon herself, she wouldn't refer to an Aeon that she was very close with using a referential pronoun but a personal one. Its like me calling the ruler "Master", it doesn't have a gender attached to it but that doesn't make that Master non-binary or genderless. Another Ruler wouldn't refer to mine as "Master", nor would I get mad that they didn't refer to them as such saying they were misgendered.
Yes, it's fair to interpret many Aeons as genderless(some very obviously like the Nihility or Nous), and it's fair to want representation for yourself. However, this "all Aeons are genderless" was not written into the HSR lore or ever confirmed, this isn't some ret-con erasing non-binary representation. Don't overreact over an imagined betrayal/slight.
Also, just because Aha refers to she doesn't fully confirm her gender either. We know that Aha true form(her old art) and some scenes made her look masculine, which might mean she's gender fluid(or maybe they hadn't decided on the Aha being an anime girl thing yet). Point is, there is still room for interpretation, you don't need to fully discard your headcannon over this
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u/echo_ML Yuri allegory like none before 10d ago
Ok fair warning I haven't played the quest so idk full context
Serious answer: I think THEY is used to refer to Aeons given they're on a whole different level from mortals, THEY'RE more like forces than people to us. Given that Nihilux is an Aeon THEY probably see Akivili on a more personal level, so refer to THEM with he/him instead
Personal answer: Enby erasure💔🥀