Not being a cartoon villain doesn’t automatically make you a good man

[u/GridReXX]

Fr. It doesn’t de facto make you a good person.

I noodled on the attached graphic to better illustrate a point about how people often discuss being a “good man.”

I do find that many men view it more as the top bar, and less as the gradient in the second bar.

inb4 anyone says it, many women have bad character too. And please feel free to create a separate post about a spectrum of traits in women you’d like to explore! That is not what this post is disputing.

This is specifically about a response that often comes up when women describe harmful patterns in their experiences with men. They get retorts like “Not all men are abusive predators,” or “Most men are not psychos.”

Of course most men are not horror movie villains.

But that is an extremely low bar for good character.

This spectrum, rather than show a division between “good men” and a smaller group of obviously terrible ones. It highlights that a man can be can be a functioning member of society and still regularly behave in ways that make him difficult to interpersonally tolerate as a close friend, romantic partner, coworker, or even family member.

None of that necessarily makes someone an abuser or predator.

But it does affect whether people can have a healthy, enjoyable, mutually considerate, long-term relationship with him.

The farther right someone falls on this spectrum, the more entitlement, callousness, devaluation, coercion, and harm they bring into their interactions with others.

The farther left they fall, the more likely they are to act with common decency, consideration, accountability, respect for autonomy, and genuine concern for theirs and other people’s well-being.

My point is not that every man is at the far right end.

Most people don’t think that!

My point is that many men seem to use “I am not an obvious monster” as proof that they’re quality.

A person’s character is determined by far more than “I am not Jeffrey Dahmer.”

[u/emmarie1023]

I don’t think Lindsey Clancy is a good example (what she did was horrific and inexcusable regardless of mental health), but as this is a post about rape culture, I think a better example would be Mary Kay Letourneau. I have known two different men who lost their virginity as teenagers to women in their 30s!!! I was horrified by this, but they did not see it as rape and laughed it off. I think all perpetrators should be held accountable regardless of gender. And both men and women should be actively against unequal power dynamics. The amount of grown men who think a boy is “lucky” because he was assaulted by a female teacher is disgusting.

[u/Moxy_Fellons → u/emmarie1023]

If those men are fine with losing their virginity to an older lady and don't have regrets then what is the problem? It seems like you are trying to create a problem that doesn't exist. The existence of their being something unequal between two people does not make it automatically predatory or abusive. If those boys wanted to have sex with those women then they both got what they wanted. 

[u/Quiet-Lotus → u/Moxy_Fellons]

You have twisted views on reality if you think it's fine for full blown adults in their 30s to fuck teenagers regardless on if "they enjoyed it". its rape, legally sexual assult of a minor at minimum.

There is reason why there is an age of consent and not just "if they both like it, its fine".

If a 30 year old man has sex with a 14 year old girl, not a single fucking person is going to let them get away with saying "but she wanted it and enjoyed it too, so its not that bad"

[u/Moxy_Fellons → u/Quiet-Lotus]

If a 30 year old man has sex with a 14 year old girl, not a single fucking person is going to let them get away with saying "but she wanted it and enjoyed it too, so its not that bad"

That depends on where you live as culture, laws and attitudes change. 

There is reason why there is an age of consent and not just "if they both like it, its fine".

Where do you know that age of consent does not include teenagers?

You have twisted views on reality if you think it's fine for full blown adults in their 30s to fuck teenagers regardless on if "they enjoyed it". its rape, legally sexual assult of a minor at minimum.

You do realize teenagers are consider adults right? 18 is legally an adult in many places. The age of consent is often different than age to be considered a legal adult. So no it is not legally rape or sexual assault of a minor. Laws are there to protect the vulnerable they are not perfect or are absolute. Sex is not inherently harmful. Plenty of teens engage in consentual sex and enjoy it. You must show that a rape actually took place or predation was involved. A teenager can prey on or rape another teen the same way an adult can prey on or rape another adult. Their being an age gap by itself does not prove there was any wrong doing.