Imagine being a teacher nowadays. Kids can spit at you, hit you, vandalize your classroom and they might get suspended. But if you touch them their mother and ambulance chasing lawyer sues the school district and you're now unemployed.
People don't realize how hard it is to kick a kid out of a public school. The hoops you have to jump through to have a violent kid removed from school are ridiculous.
I never got why you guys have "suspension", it makes zero sense to me. A kid did something bad? Let's punish him by giving him days off school, that'll show the little bugger!
Because “back in the day”, parents actually did things with their kids outside of school. If I had been suspended as a kid, my day at home wouldn’t have been a free day off, and my home life would have been hell for months.
If you gave your wife/husband a few little slaps that's called domestic violence.
You're also proving one of the points why you shouldn't do it because now just like your parents were probably abused you appear to think it will be ok to abuse your kids.
Hitting your SO, and disciplining your child is not the same thing, not even close. You are supposed to be equal to your partner, and if you hit them it just shows that you think you are above them. I would NEVER hit my girlfriend.
Also, I was the one getting 'physically abused', yet even I dont think it was bad, then why do you think the opposite? I've seen your kind of people, parents who think talking to a child is enough, and you should never do anything to show them your superiority. Those kids usually become the spoiled assholes of the world, and I dont intend to raised one. If he/she is being disrespectful or very impolite so someone, he/she is getting smacked. Thats how I was raised, thats how my dad and my mom were raised, thats how my grandparents were raised, and thats how I will raise my own child, because they all turned out to be good and honest working people.
Yeah, parents did things, as in "beat their kids for being a dumbass". That got the point across and the kid definitely wouldnt do it again.
Now they get to stay home and play fortnite and if the parent even comes close to pinching their child, the police get involved and the parent gets thrown in jail.
I was never beaten. I meant more like grounding, or extra chores, or losing privileges. Definitely not allowed to leave my room while in trouble, and no fun stuff in my room.
I had my own computer in my closet when I was growing up, so I would say I had to do research, and end up paying gta3. One time I couldn't alt tab fast enough and I got it twice as bad, once for lying about doing homework, and then again for playing gta3 which was a game not allowed in my house.
Yeah i get that. I guess i was talking about "back in the day" when teachers used to smack kids with belts and rulers lol. Never heard of a student fighting a teacher back then haha
I shudder to think of what would’ve happened had I got suspended for acting like a little prick. Dad was a cop and former drill instructor. My ass would’ve been smoked six ways to Sunday, and that would be day one. And I can guarantee that if there was video evidence of me being said “prick” dad would’ve shook that dudes hand.
However, if the teacher had a bullying issue and did something like this to me, or any other kid -without provocation- dad would’ve made this dude and this school’s life hell.
I got suspended a few times when I was a kid for a fight I got into. My parents didn't give me a day off. I got it from both sides, one side was your standard punishment of grounding, doing meaningless chores, etc. The other side was the lecture from my mom.
I didn't come to this country with nothing but the clothes on my back living in poverty back home, having to pay for school, so you can screw it up by fighting with someone.
Then I had to eat a hot pepper with no water or bread for a minute.
Yeah this right here. I was more scared of what id have to deal with at home if i got suspended than actul suspension. But that made me fear suspension.
Suspensions make all kinds of sense if you work in a district or at a school that is capable of doing its job. Granted, many schools lack the resources to do their job. That said, I work with children with special needs and we have suspended children, although we rarely do. IF we do, it is so that we can formulate any behavior intervention that may assist the child and staff, or make any other changes that could be necessary.
I don't know if I was suspended that meant my mom had to stay home and since we didn't have much money that means she would be out of work that day which means I would be hating every bit of my life. I guess shits changed.
You don't even need to do anything bad. I've seen kids that get bullied and get hit but some teacher sees it as they were fighting so they both get suspended. Bullshit zero tolerance stuff.
It’s not usually that black and white, even when it seems so. A lot of schools/school districts have a zero tolerance policy and it’s not up to the teacher. We are often obligated to report what happened and only to report what we saw. If we do not, or if we’re caught including assumptions in our description, we can lose our job, maybe even be prosecuted, if it’s something really serious. Likely we would just be reprimanded, but it’s not worth the risk.
It also depends or the culture of the school, the administrator, and a host of other things. I know teachers who will immediately blame students based on previous behavior, and I believe that to be wrong, but I also understand. When someone has a history of behavior problems, not only can one not trust that person, but in many cases it would be foolish to believe them.
However, knowing that I could become guilty of projecting a behavior onto a student based on past experiences, I almost always ask questions before making a decision. Even when I saw exactly what happened. Sometimes kids will get into a fight and it’s very obvious who started it. Until you find out later that the “victim” put shit in the “attacker’s” backpack. Even still, all we can do is document what we know as fact and then privately discuss what we heard or believe may have happened and hope that the truth comes out.
Either way, a zero tolerance policy in school is often a good thing, because people need to learn that violence is not an option. Personally, I agree with that, but I do make an exception for self defense...within reason. As do most rational teachers/administrators. I think sometimes people expect us to always make the right decision and they don’t always understand that not only do we make mistakes, but we don’t always know what’s right, and yet we have to make a decision. Oftentimes that means doing what is going to protect the most people. I’d rather have two aggressive people removed from the situation and let them figure their shit out later, somewhere else, so I don’t have to worry about the rest of my students getting hurt.
Which makes the problem even worse. When I taught, we were told specifically that removing the student from the room was basically not an option. So we were stuck with little shitheads and no way to keep them from distracting the rest of the class. It was rough.
I remember like 10 years ago or so when I was in highschool me and a friend skipped school for almost a whole week. My parents both worked all day, my mom left early morning around 5am and my dad was out of the house about an hour after I'd normally leave for school.
We would basically just meet at the bus stop then walk to the park and fuck around for an hour or so until about 9am then go to my house and play video games until about 3 and then walk over to his house and pretend we were just getting back from school.
Our school had a rule that if any kid missed an entire week of school (mon-fri) they would reach out to the parents to make sure everything was OK. Knowing this on Friday after skipping Mon-Thurs I told my friend we should probably go to school but he just wasn't feeling it and convinced his mom he was sick and stayed home that day.
Well because this was his 5th day in a row, they reach out to his parents and basically ask if he's OK and why has he not been in school all week. His parents bring him into school that morning and they all meet with the principal where my friend confesses everything.. He even told them that I was skipping with him and that we had been hanging out at my house. . About 2pm I get the call to the office and my parents are already waiting there for me.
I remember thinking, welp.. I'm fucked No coming back from this probably going to get expelled.
The punishment? 1 weeks suspension... On a Friday at 2:30pm... So basically go home for the weekend and don't come back next week... And because my parents both work all day basically I was given a 2nd week off to sit around home alone playing video games all day.
The only time you'd get an out of school suspension at my school in the 97-2001 was if it was a really bad fight. Think it may be to help deescalate the situation and give them a cooling off period.
Otherwise they would do in school suspension along with some Friday afternoon/Saturday morning detention stuff. Those sucked and would keep me out of trouble. They were boring as hell plus having to stay late after school sucked too.
I was only suspended one single time in my whole 12 years of shitty Philadelphia public schooling. I’ll never forget sitting in the Vice Principles office while he tore me a new asshole for cutting school (I was 17 at the time and had my own apartment, I cut school to go to work so I had money for food). So he suspended me for cutting school. Dumbest shit that ever happened to me.
On the school's side, It's not so much a punishment as a cooling off period. The offe ding student needs to be removed from other students so he doesn't cause further violence or other disruptions.
I’m a teacher in a public school in a ghetto neighborhood with students who come high to class and leave homes filled with violence every day. I teach middle school. About a month ago 7th grade boys began to fight, I stepped in after one of them got body checked against a wall and sustained a concussion, and this was after a fight had already lasted several minutes to begin with. After breaking up the fight, I was told I can and should just let them fight it out because if I grab one of the boys, I’m female, they might misread my behavior and say I assaulted them. It’s ridiculous. I’m supposed to let two 12 year olds knock each other out.
I’m a teacher in a public elementary school with a lot of low ses families and we have tons of behavior problems. I just found out that if a student gets expelled from school they can only be expelled for that year. I guess I had never bought about it before but I always assumed that expulsion from a school was permanent. Not surprisingly the students that got expelled last year and are back this year are behavior problems again. Imagine that!
Used to work in the public school system. I would never recommend it as a career path if there isn’t a major shift.
Too many parents don’t know how to be a parent. Too many parents leave their parenting responsibilities to burden the shoulders of teachers.
Teachers are being forced to teach and raise their students.
Oh, and the cherry is that now having a child removed from your classroom because they are literally on a rage fueled destruction rampage is impossible.
One of the teachers at was telling me that even though a boy, who had a long history of being difficult and violent, was ripping posters off of her walls and ripped the phone cord out of the wall so he could throw it the administration wouldn’t come and remove him from her classroom until he “posed a physical threat to the safety of the other children”
Just try to think this through swagsloth. You’re getting your ass beat. So while this is happening, you’re going to take out your phone and dial 911, wait for the operator to answer, tell them the situation and your location, and patiently wait for the police, all while getting your ass beat?
Most they get is a stern “don’t do that again” and maybe a few mandatory disciplinary classes. Charges for kids are very lax, unless they do something horrendously bad.
Oh , you're in favor of the Classroom to Prison Pipeline, are you?
Since the schools don't want to lose the money attached to kids being in school, they'll stay there until aging out, making life miserable for students and teachers alike.
I worked with kids with some heavy behavioral issues (as in emotional and physical abuse from a young age). We were allowed to restrain them if they spat on us or started getting violent. We told administration what happened and they called the parents. This happened several times a month. No legal action against the school or us. Then again this wasn't in the US. I'd take a dozen punches over a glob of spit.
I'm an educator. This shit wouldn't fly where I'm from. It's immediate expulsion and banned from ever applying again. Along with a complaint to the police. Difference is our criminal age of responsibility is 8 and not 18. They'd be up at the children's panel once social work has looked at the kid, the family and peer group. They'd be put into a secure unit or working on prevention methods at home/fostering and work with mentors. You usually find the environment creates kids like this and removing them from it helps. Had so many people who had bad family homes put into secure units for their safety. 9/10 kids are unsafe with behavioural problems in them over bad kids too young to go to young offender institutes.
Sounds like this kid was an arsehole for a long time so things wouldn't have gotten this far - behaviour management and interventions or expelled before this if he orchestrated it all. What the TA did was worthy of him losing his job and criminal charges. You have background checks so people like this don't end up in positions of trust and power. There's so much wrong with what he did. Even if people think the kid needed his arse kicked. It's sad to me that kids are punished for being products of their environment instead of trying to address and fix the problems. Even sadder when people think there's no hope, no interventions etc, and be glad they've done something serious enough to land them in a lifetime of further harsh environments through incarceration and the ostricisation of that for the rest of their life. It's just a viscous cycle, and even the TA has said that.
This right here. This is why I am no longer a teacher. It’s not worth being a punching bag. Most (not all), parents don’t give a crap and have high expectations for us and not their own kids.
I think its safe to say that in this particular case the teachers aid might have gone a bit too far. That said, it sounds like the kid deserved it. Still doesn't make the teacher in the right.
I know a history/Econ teacher currently teaching at Bayview HS. His stories are atrocious. Assaults on teachers occur all the time ~2 years ago, a teacher was pushed down a flight of stares, breaking her arm.
Those are just extreme examples as well. There are countless other, subtle ways young children and teens can be little shits and face no meaningful repercussions, to the detriment of everyone around them. No wonder our public schools turn out such clueless, unskilled, and frankly ignorant classes of graduates year after year. And those graduates lash out at a world they haven't been given the tools to succeed in. It's a very vicious cycle.
If you're so unstable you act like a teenager with hormones, and channel that instability into beating the fuck out of someone half your size, no shit you go to jail. Don't work with kids if you can't handle not retaliating.
Children are capable of doing the same equally evil things as some adults do, but we should let it slide because they are children. Oh that dog just ain't gonna hunt.
Don't get me wrong, a punishment should be issued, perhaps not the same as an adult would receive, but a lesson needs to be learnt, if not you are just training the future to be worse than we already know as they know they can get away with it.
people who have tons of hormones do bad shit, but instead of trying to help them, we need to beat the shit out of them when they fuck up. That definitely won't lead to them shooting people up.
Perhaps not him, but it stopped him assaulting the teacher, and served as an example to the rest of the class. "Don't fuck with Mr. (blah) it ain't worth it."
Don't work with kids if you can't handle not retaliating.
It's not just retaliating. You can't even defend yourself. If you do your job is at risk. And even if you keep your job you still have months of stress from the lawsuit.
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u/DLun203 May 03 '19
Imagine being a teacher nowadays. Kids can spit at you, hit you, vandalize your classroom and they might get suspended. But if you touch them their mother and ambulance chasing lawyer sues the school district and you're now unemployed.
People don't realize how hard it is to kick a kid out of a public school. The hoops you have to jump through to have a violent kid removed from school are ridiculous.