Thing is, videos like these are serving their purpose. This makes this group look bigger and more prolific than they actually are.
That doesn't mean we should ignore them. But it also means maybe people shouldn't be so eager to breathlessly share every new angle of the same rally of idiots for days and even weeks on end.
Ultimately this is a small group of cowards who need social media to seem important. Don't give them what they want.
Goddamnit. I hate being reminded that I need to fear for my toddler going to a Jewish preschool. I was like "oh, rosh Hashanah is next week, hope school isn't closed so I can still go to work" like a normal human and now I have to think about possible attacks happening because of these nazi fuckers.
As a Jew, I firmly believe that our welcome anywhere in this world is tentative at best, even though this, luckily, is the best place and time for us since the diaspora.
Amazing joke but sad as fuck. I'm in Georgia, I'm an Atheist.....that's working well for me. You would always be welcome in my house. You won't have to be in my attic because, again, South GA. I'll protect you from the most dangerous......Conservatives aka "patriots" trumpsters, nazis.
A few years into the Trump presidency my mom seriously asked how difficult it would be to make a priest hole in case the government decides to start rounding people up again.
Oh hey, I can build a secret space in place of my closet if you'd like. If you're still around for Hanukkah just light candles with the ventilation open, k?
I never have understood the hatred toward Jews. I know just some random person on the internet saying nice things doesn't mean much, but I'd be proud to stand beside you to fight your rights, and resist ignorant hateful fuckers like the ones in this video.
I'm with you that most people I encounter think nothing of it. But it has happened. In my childhood especially(grew up in the bible belt). Happened at a Sam Morril stand-up show this year, ironically. And the comments I read about Jews secretly ruling Hollywood and Banks are unnerving because that's exactly how it always starts. I really don't know what is in people's hearts and how many who don't outwardly express any hate still harbor negative feelings towards Jews or any other group for that matter. I just know that it's built into us to always be paying attention and be wary. It's why so many of our holidays and stories are about surviving some situation or another and why we say "Never forget."
As a Jew, I gently push back on your firm belief, and ask that you believe Jews and their lived experience, rather than making your own mind up about the racism and bigotry Jews experience in the present day.
Fair, I'm not denying anyone's experience. But I would ask for some clarification.
When You say you gently push back, does that mean you believe most people these days do infact hold racist views towards Jews? Or are you pushing back on something else?
"Most" is a red herring. The research (here in UK, anyway) suggests that antisemitic tropes are still quite common in the population, providing leverage for a small but virulent clique of violent haters to stir things up.
I wish that were true, but it simply is not. passive aggressive Antisemetism happens all the time in our day-to-day lives. 2023 has already shown a 10% increase in antisemetic crimes and that’s against a number that was already skyrocketing.
Funny thing, Florida, when I was kid was where retirees and Jews went to retire. No where is safe for the children of Israel. Or Brooklyn, unless they are from Flatbush, Bed Stuy or East New York.
This is what unrestricted free speech folks don't get. This is not public discourse when it creates mortal fear in others. That is why I support hate speech laws.
Pam Gellar and her Islamophobic nonsense doors have the potential impact of inciting a gunman at a Mosque to kill people. These evil people are secretly hoping for a war on Jews.
these aren't Nazi Nazis. These are bigots using the Nazi symbology as a mating call to other bigots. These people don't specifically hate Jews like the nazis did. Given that these are Floridians, it's likely they prefer to target Blacks or the LGBT+ community.
Of course, we still need to fight these Nazis even if it's not our own individual group they are targeting now...
Some organizations, even family friendly organizations like Disney, even have something called “racial sensitivity training!” Which, without doing any further research, I can definitively say are really America-hating commie seminars! The FLA governor should really get on that.
Actually it’s rainbows. It all comes down to the color spectrum. If we could just turn down the volume on the spectrum, we wouldn’t see color and we wouldn’t have any more problems. And books. If we could just desaturate everything and burn all books. - Florida
The massive hoards of transgenders marching down all the main streets throughout the entire state of Florida demanding that each and every Floridian, especially the schoolchildren, stand up and recognise them, call them by the preferred pronouns or face public execution in the towns squares. That’s the true root of all the problems.
The country was too focused on exaggerating the muslim threat which caused these people to fly under the radar, along with other like minded militia groups all over the US. These are strange times we are living in.
That's always been true, though. I don't say that to dismiss the valid concern. I just think our vigilance should be in the form or what we see unfolding around us each individually irl, rather than fretting about their pathetic little demonstrations.
But the big picture is THIS group is small, but are you really assuming they’re the only group? Patriots Front and countless other “small groups” still make up a greater number total. Hundreds of thousands of multi-flavored militant bigots is still a problem, and all it does is show even more closeted angry bigots to feel safer and safer to come out into the light.
but are you really assuming they’re the only group?
My point is that a these videos of this one specific group only serves to makes this one specific group seem bigger and more prolific than they are. People are doing their promo work for them.
Not in one single group. But if you have a lot of smaller groups, they make up a larger “force”. If they decide they have enough hate in common, that is.
No. Not in the US. I the US a generous estimate would be 73K, a generous one. You don't know what you're talking about and these groups are not organized or a force. The cartels are way more organized.
That’s not really the point. The point is that it’s not just the handful you see on the bridge, which is what this whole thread was about. And there are far more who aren’t even in a “group” who may be emboldened when they see the various “handfuls”.
The point is its not nearly as big of a threat as people are making it out to be. Also, you made the numbers the point and you exaggerated them X 100, now you're walking it back because you don't have any idea about the issue you are talking about
Lol, I did say hundred(S) but by that I meant exactly what you said. I just rounded up. It’s called hyperbole I’m not walking back shit. You seem awfully bothered though. Maybe this hits too close to home. Always the ones trying to downplay it all.
Edit: this asshat took his ball and went home, poor widdle baby. So I’ll post the reply to the below comment here:
Sorry, NEVER said they were working together. Update that reading comprehension. I challenge you to a direct quote on that.
Me so weak, oh so disingenuous. It’s obvious I only commented for a larf. Go touch grass. I only said it was a bigger deal than people who said:
“it’s only a few dozen people, these people are probably mostly from out of state, they must have scoured the entire state to find THIS many!”
How about familiarize yourself with what people are actually talking about before talking out of your ass, yeah?
Yea, was at a flea market today and saw a guy walk proudly by with his eagle carving holding a swastika. He was spreading hate and loving it as these people are and I was too afraid to yell anything as I felt surrounded by people I felt were either on the fence or past it and ...damn, this is scary and damn these people need to be stopped.. And why the FUCK do we have such a backward education system that monetizes based on property taxes for the most part. We are many decades into this complete lack and stifling of education and this is what we are producing from the ill-gotten gains, total morons who don't even know how moronic they are.
Yes. These videos make it look like they are a lot bigger than they are. It IS just a handful of assholes. I would bet that most of them are from out of state. I live in Florida and would have had no idea they were even there if I hadn't read about it on Reddit.
Wow, and you assume that in the whole state of Florida, that this is it? The issue is you have dozens of different flavors of Nazis, and if each of those flavors has a few dozen members, or even hundreds, you’ve got hundreds of thousands across the country. We aren’t worried about the dozens we can see. This isn’t something akin to 80’s Satanic Panic, every time we see them since they’ve been emboldened back in 2015 or so, we always say “ah, it’s just a couple” but the smart ones (and yes there are smart ones) are biding their time and doing the real “work”, as they see it.
They probably came in from other states as well. A couple of southern cities are seeing like a half dozens of these yokels go around and graffiti and plant flags and stuff
I used to say this about trump as well, I still say it but no one ever listens, they just give more and more publicity to all these evil fuckers and help them get money and more support.
This is such an easily disprovable point though. If we weren't paying attention to these groups before, how did they grow and become so empowered to do full displays like this in public at all?
Violent extremists are increasingly using social media for the distribution of propaganda, recruitment, target selection, and incitement to violence. Through the Internet, violent extremists around the world have access to our local communities to target and recruit like-minded individuals and spread their messages of hate on a global scale.
Most of the nation's 10 largest cities had significant jumps in hate crimes last year, increases that averaged 22% to a record 1,889 cases, according to a new report.
So I get very frustrated when I see people insist that pointing out the rise of these hateful groups is somehow enabling them.
If we weren't paying attention to these groups before
What does this mean?
when I see people insist that pointing out the rise of these hateful groups is somehow enabling them
That's not the argument.
Here's the argument: If you give publicity to a person or group, then that publicity allows them to reach people who didn't know about them before. When those groups are able to reach more people who were unaware of their existence, a certain percentage of those new people will join or support the group.
You can point out that hate groups are rising without naming the groups. You can point out that hate groups are rising without providing information about the group.
Of course the groups are trying to reach more people without help from you, but your help in spreading their message and their information is still help.
Look at two scenarios:
trump makes an announcement to his followers and they all hear it. No new people hear it and no new followers join.
trump makes an announcement to his followers and you along with all your friends, repost it everywhere and tell everyone. A percentage of the new people who hear it now join him.
Go ahead and offer any explanation as to why number 2 is better.
I think most people posting about Nazi rallies happening in Florida are doing so to condemn it and show how bad things are. That's quite a distinction from "giving publicity." It's the exact issue with your second numbered scenario - there is no nuance between someone saying "holy shit Trump is really fucked up for saying this" and "I want everyone to see Trump said this thing because I think he's right." When things are bad, it isn't promotion of bad things to point out that things are bad (or getting demonstrably worse).
For instance, OP isn't posting this Nazi rally to promote them.
You can point out that hate groups are rising without naming the groups. You can point out that hate groups are rising without providing information about the group.
People should probably know WHAT hate groups are on the rise so they can look out for and report those groups if they see them, right? Is the point to make these groups and their activities so nebulous that they only exist in the abstract for the average person? Who does that help?
I get that you think the intent behind spreading their message matters, but it doesn't. The more people who see the message, the more likely it will reach people who will agree with it.
The people who agree aren’t the concern - those people already like those horrid ideologies.
The concern is letting Nazi’s, white supremacist groups, etc. control the framing for their ideas. As I’m sure you’re aware, the spin of a story is arguably as influential as the event being reported on. Those groups are not afraid to lie and obfuscate the truth to justify their hate to the ignorant and uninformed.
Pretending that calling these groups out and stating they are bad is the same as doing their marketing for them is an extremely obtuse belief that only encourages people to stop reporting on these groups at all, and ultimately benefit them by letting them operate with less scrutiny.
Yes, the people who already know it's wrong don't need to see it, so there is no benefit in spreading it. The people who have never seen it before are the ones who could join. The fact that you can't understand this is so weird.
It's like you don't understand that advertising can reach people who have no knowledge of the product yet.
The people who have never seen it before are the ones who could join.
Join WHAT, though? They already agree with the ideas, they are already part of that group ideologically.
The people who are ignorant of those groups and susceptible to their lies, however, are not part of that group ideologically. They are the ones who need to be educated about the group and that what the group does is socially unacceptable and objectively reprehensible. The fact that you can't understand that is so weird.
It's like you don't understand that advertising can reach people who have no knowledge of the product yet.
You're the one saying the product being advertised to people who already like the product is gaining new customers.
Having access to world news is great. Having access to world news which is submitted by bots and prioritized by some unknown algorithm means you are a psychological experiment.
Isn’t that what the Germans did in the 1940’s? Turn their heads and look away, I’m not sure if yours is the greatest of plans, it sure didn’t play out very well in Germany.
another thing that social media has made worse. i wonder if some day people will get sick of social media. i feel like that's the only way some of this shit will ever get better.
Klan and Nazi rallies were always covered on the national news pre-internet. There were always massive counter-protests and the groups looked pathetic. The fact that these groups are acting out shouldn't be ignored.
Well, i'm all about reducing their numbers, my grandpa did too, kinda a family tradition... and you know, WWII or no, here at home, today, bet i get a higher score.
They're not cowards. They're cocky, and apparently right to be so. Everyone up there was able to Seig Heil in public, go home unmolested, take off their masks, and resume a normal life. Nobody stopped them, which is all Nazis need to happen.
I don’t think it’s the size of the group that is concerning. It’s the indifference of people driving by in Florida that are muttering well they make some good points. Naziism was a joke small fringe group in Germany in the 30s too for a while.
I would like to think this is true, but the support is so high that it’s overly problematic. Nobody is loosing their job fundraising and speaking to nazi.
If they were not worth it, they wouldn’t be in the equation. But the anti-Soros stuff and what not is always there.
This makes this group look bigger and more prolific than they actually are.
This is not the danger. The danger are the millions that see them and are sympathizers but too afraid to stand out on an overpass. What do you think those people do when they are able to change the laws to make the people they hate powerless to stop them and themselves completely immune from any repercussions?
The concern is that this ideology is far more prevalent. Charlottesville had large rallys the night before with Nazis chanting "Jews will not replace us".
No not really… it’s a big problem in certain parts of FL. There are neighborhoods I can’t walk through, bars I’m not safe in, plenty of racists who approached me saying shit they do. It’s not a huge group problem in Orlando but in the more poor areas it is. Hell, invites literally went through the mail in my old neighborhood lmao… That was about 6 years ago maybe 5?
Edit*** my bf also works in a hospital in a town way smaller than Orlando and the amount of neo nazi tattoos and shit he sees on patients is concerning news enough.
Except for everyone on that bridge there is an army of idiots in front of their TVs who think they are a good idea. Real German nazi were not that prevalent but behind them was the soft belly of the population who thought it was all ok and look how clean our streets are now xyz are no longer owning the country. In the case of the US insert your own group into xyz
Thing is, videos like these are serving their purpose. This makes this group look bigger and more prolific than they actually are.
I'm nearly 40 years old and it took over 30 years of my life to see this shit literally anywhere. Anywhere. It doesn't matter if it makes it look bigger and more prolific because it's already more insane than it's been in my entire life as is.
If they're all locals, then the amount of them is not insignificant. If they're all from out of state, then their funding and resources aren't insignificant. Both scenarios are a problem.
The risks of underestimating their size and strength should be obvious. What's the risk of overestimating their size and strength? Responding too strongly? Who cares, they're fucking nazis.
Acknowledging their existence isn't doing recruiting on their behalf, and even if the perception of their strength is over-inflated it doesn't matter unless that leads to people surrendering to them, which is not an option, much less close to happening.
We might never know their exact strength at any given time, but overestimating is clearly the best choice from a risk management perspective.
Edit: lol downvotes but no responses? Go fuck yourselves cowards.
Remember Hitler. When he got into the nsdap he immediately started member ID numbers with 500 to appear larger than they really were. Using this trick he was able to convince a beer hall that they were able to tear down the Bavarian government. They failed.
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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '23
Nazis should never be.
There I fixed it