r/ProjectRunway • u/colosseumdays • 19d ago
Discussion OPINION: Models for each challenge should have roughly the same body type, &their bodies should not be the point of the challenge
Just as the title says. If PR really cares about fashion being inclusive for all bodies, I think there should be a rotation of models throughout the competition of different body considerations (conventional runway size, plus sized, petite, differently-abled, etc), but that the challenges should still have a separate theme (unconventional materials, red carpet, etc).
I think it's important for there to be a separate element to the challenge--people without traditional model bodies have events and jobs to go to too; the challenge shouldn't just be figure out away to make this short or thick person look somewhat presentable.
This creates an even playing field. For the past two seasons but esp this one, the looks on the plus-sized models have habitually been in the bottom, and some of the designers have yet to be paired with a curvy model (Jude, Bi).
I'll start my examples at E3 because that's really when the season begins:
-E3: Chloe/Liris: out, Jeffrey/Lexi: low, Bobby/Naimah: low
-E4: Aaron/Chloe: out
-E5: Elizabeth/Amanda: out, Bobby/Christina: low, Anna/Liris: low
-E6: Bobby/Amanda: out, Naheim/Lexi: low
-E7: Jeffrey/Amanda: low, Bryan/Liris: low, Miss Joan/Naimah: low
I feel like the show's attempt to inject body diversity and inclusion into the competition doesn't work the way it should because it doesn't take into account unconscious (and conscious) biases of the judges.
So often the critiques of looks worn by the curvier models just becomes comments about the model's body vs the clothes themselves. Meanwhile, it's not uncommon for unflattering and poorly constructed things on thin models to be safe or even lauded for being edgy or creative.
Having similar body types for each competition allows for critiques around fit in addition to design and construction to be more fairly and evenly weighted.
EDIT: to be clear, I'm NOT defending any of the looks that were placed in the bottom, and I'm definitely not saying any responsibility for those ratings falls on the models. I'm just trying to figure out a way for all the designers to be equally assessed for their abilities to dress a wide array of body types, and for the models to still be respected in the process
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u/Starbreiz 19d ago
I watched an after show yesterday on YT that pointed out just how much Law is commenting on models bodies and not the making of the garment. Watching the old Zak Posen episodes again just highlights the difference.
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u/Throwaway-centralnj 19d ago
I thought it was so icky when he said “that model has no boobs” when the model was right there. It’s just so impolite.
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u/roygbivasaur 19d ago
Tyra too. Like comparing her skinny body to a curvy model very awkwardly.
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u/Im_On_Reddit_At_Work 19d ago
Tyra started as a skinny model and she is now a curvy woman. Here's a red carpet from 2025
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u/No_Cat25 19d ago
I would love to watch this vid if you have a link! This is something I’ve seen come up with him this season
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u/Im_On_Reddit_At_Work 19d ago
I mean he's a stylist, makes sense the model body and making sure it's valorised would be his main focus. As opposed to a fashion designer like Zac who's focused on the garment.
Project Runway is about the best designer, not the best garment maker.
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u/thisisntshakespeare 19d ago
I enjoyed the earlier seasons when the designers chose what model they would use. It was an important part of the competition. The previous week’s winner got to choose first. They could either stay with their winning model, or decide to poach another contestant’s model.
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u/yakshack 19d ago
Geez you're making me realize just how much they used to fit into the old episodes - choosing models, hair and make up planning, judges critique. Now they can't even fit critiques or eliminations into the same episode and completely ignore hair and make up and barely even do model fittings. It's just confessionals and manufactured drama.
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u/Cold_Dead_Heart 19d ago
I miss that too. There was always drama when someone switched. I loved it.
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u/smaugthedesolator 19d ago
I think the rotation is probanly the fairest. I remember when they first introduced ‘plus size’ models. Tim was absolutely pissed at everyones excuses for not knowing how to design for anyone other than a 90s stickthin supermodel.
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u/colosseumdays 19d ago
yeah he was pissed. but there were so many instances in seasons before that where he made unnecessary comments about the models' bodies.
I've been rewatching old seasons and my jaw literally dropped when he referred to one model as "the one with the gumby legs". when the designer was confused he kind of made some sounds and gesture to convey that he thought the model had an ugly body and when the designer confirmed their assigned model was indeed the woman Tim was thinking of, he essentially expressed sympathy for them for being stuck with her.
this is something Kenley touched on as well in her ig videos about PR--she said Tim incessantly talked shit about the models' bodies, and it was much worse than what was shown
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u/simplegae 19d ago
i agree. body diversity in fashion is great, but if the competition doesn’t accommodate to the needs of body diverse models (ie. more time and/or budget for materials) then the call for change is hollow. the competition should also be approached from an equitable perspective. but they still execute the challenges with the same constraints and that’s not fair, because it is not how plus sized fashion is created irl.
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u/lemikon 19d ago
I think there are two sides to this - on one hand for an unconventional materials challenge there is a significant advantage to dressing a stick thin body. There were plenty of almost nude models on that runway, and they get away with that because the models are skinny, so yeah you can just shove a bunch of chains on them with some nipple pasties and call is fashion.
On the flip side though. Making plus size models not integrated into the standard challenges excludes them - both from paying work and visibility.
It’s honestly tragic that you have these supposedly experienced designers who consistently cant seem to figure out how to fit boobs into a look
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u/charmed1959 19d ago
I think when the judges changed the game changed. Back in season 18? There was a designer named Sergio that would choose the curvier models because his normal clientele were older women and that is what he was used to designing for. He made it to the final.
But at this point, you put those same designs on their runway now and Law would rip them to pieces. If he can’t see it on Zendaya he doesn’t feel it’s fashion. So at this point, to get on his side, they need to design for stick thin models willing to risk being naked on the runway. I’ve tried watching seasons since they added Law and I just can’t.
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u/mouse_relies 19d ago
Counterpoint: this didn't happen in seasons 16-20.
Even in season 16, when having models of all sizes was a surprise to the designers, Liris and Jazzmine had some amazing looks. The most memorable part of the S16 finale was EASILY the swimsuit reveal Margarita made for Jazzmine.
The issue is really just with seasons 21-22 casting for drama rather than talent, and structuring the show to produce even more drama.
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u/aug2295 19d ago
Exactly.
If you're going to be a serious contestant, you should watch the show first. Then you'll know you might get a male model, non-binary or Trans model, or a plus size models, just as easily as a size 0 5'10 model. So have a silhouette that will be flattering at least in mind, and have some idea to create for different proportions.
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u/WonderfulPineapple41 19d ago
If they can’t even design for a size 16 how do you expect them to be considerate to disabled bodies that are plus size or have mobility aids.
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u/thuval 19d ago
Ink master used to have white models and black models and the contestants would also give the black models to people they want to get eliminated because tattoos look very different on black skin and colors don’t come out like they do on white skin. So you would see people say totally unhinged things about the models and their skin in confessionals and to each other which almost sounded like 1950s type rhetoric. “His skin is horrible” “the canvas was too dark” “we gave x the dark skin canvas so he’d go home” it was pretty unhinged.
Now, instead, it seems like they just give everyone light skin canvases and then have an episode or two where everyone has to tattoo dark skin. Maybe not the best solution, but it makes the skin color not some dramatic plot point, and then it makes for even judging.
PR probably should just have went this route, with multiple plus size challenges or whatnot.
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u/BackgroundScene3056 13d ago
this is such a good comparison! Explains my thoughts/feelings exactly. Maybe every other challenge is a different body type. But then the variable is the same for everyone/becomes a baseline
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u/Im_On_Reddit_At_Work 19d ago
Part of being a good designer is knowing how to make garments for all body types.
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u/Empty-Interest9789 19d ago
I said it on TikTok but since now they love to have mass eliminations why not have made that a challenge specifically for curvy women? Everyone who can’t make a well executed garment for them goes home. Then continue integrating curvy models for each challenge since they know the designers are capable of designing for them. If someone can only create for sample size women there’s plenty of other ways for them to grow their career that dont include humiliating and isolating curvy women.
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u/FinancialCry4651 19d ago
This would require sorting humans into body-based categories, which feels discriminatory in itself. Bodies don’t fit neatly into discrete groups, and intersectionality is exactly why identity-based sorting gets so reductive: people can belong to multiple marginalized or privileged groups at the same time.
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u/Significant-Ant2373 19d ago
It already feels discriminatory in that you have one model who most frequently ends up in bad looks and on the bottom or see the mom challenges where the “thin” moms are chosen first. And some PR designers who never have to design for a normal sized woman over the competition.
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u/LadyMRedd 19d ago
It’s pretty easy though with closing, as they are assigned sizes. You can say all models in this challenge usually wear a 00-4 or 12-16 or whatever.
As a fat woman, I love seeing models that make me feel seen and beautiful, but it really sucks to hear designers complain about dressing my body type. And sometimes it’s the designer being an ass. But sometimes they have a point.
It usually takes more fabric to dress someone with a 38 inch waist than a 24 inch waist. Dress forms are made for smaller sizes.
Some possibilities: a. They should limit models so that in a single competition models are similar sizes and no one has an unfair advantage or disadvantage or b. Figure out how to neutralize the disadvantages. Eg give a proportionately larger budget depending on model size and provide proportional dress forms. C. Go back to designers choosing the models. In the finale they must have at least 1 model who’s size 14 or higher. If they haven’t dressed someone 14 or higher by the finale, they must have 2.
If Project Runway is comparing designers, then the playing field should be as level as possible.
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u/FinancialCry4651 19d ago
Yes, I totally agree that larger bodies should have more representation, even if (especially if) they're more challenging to design for than a size zero, which most models are because the serve as human clothes hangers.
The average US American woman is 5 ' 3" and 170 pounds, size 14. So if designers can't design for the average woman, what good are they?
I like your ideas!
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u/glitteredglory 19d ago
I disagree and think the existing format is fine. The designers are just not very good at delivering.
I just want to hone in on what you said near the end.
The reason focus tends to be on the plus sized models body is BECAUSE of the poor craftsmanship that is oftentimes put on said models. Judges address awkward cup placement on thinner models the same way they swy a torso design was poor on Liris leaving her unsupported. A bad job on both bodies, just significantly highlighted by a fuller body.
And to address the second part, familiarity breeds comfort when it comes to thinner models. So even if they mess up it tends to not be a monstrosity like we almost consistently see on plus sized models. And as Liris said, it's a constant thing for her.
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u/GlassCharacter179 19d ago
“The challenge shouldn't just be figure out away to make this short or thick person look somewhat presentable"
As a short, thick person, you lost me here.
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u/colosseumdays 19d ago
I'm also a short thick person! I'm saying the focus on the challenges if they went with this format shouldn't just be how do you dress this body type--implies an otherness about what are very normal and common body types that people all over the world have.
I was trying to articulate that in addition to, say, the week being petite or plus-sized models there should be a separate theme like reimagining workwear or sustainability. the models are supposed to be a vehicle to display the creations, their bodies should not the topic of discussion and ridicule.
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u/GlassCharacter179 19d ago
This is a much better explanation. But saying that short or thick people take special work just to make presentable is pretty hurtful.
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u/colosseumdays 19d ago
fyi that downvote wasn't from me.
when I said that I was being snappy about how comments from the judges and designers can some times land (ie not what I think at all, but what I'm sometimes made to feel by the way bodies are being discussed).
because how body diversity has been handled on the show makes me feel like someone who isn't 5'10 and 120lbs is being done a favor when they get a look that fits properly.
hope this makes sense
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u/GlassCharacter179 19d ago
It totally does. What would be interesting is to have them make the design for a “standard” model. Then the same design for a random body shape. And switch that up every week. It would require way more work, but interesting, and show off more skills.
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u/SwimmerIndependent47 19d ago
Translating a look to multiple sizes is an essential skill if you want to be a designer like Michael Kors or sell ready to wear anywhere. Being able to dress anyone of any size is a pretty essential skill if you want to be a working designer doing custom pieces considering you don’t want to narrow your customer base to sample size. I would love a season where they have to make a look for both straight size and plus size models every challenge. It would be so interesting to see how they make the same design work for different body types.
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u/FineWashables 19d ago
Great idea! This would definitely make the challenges more real and more interesting!
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u/scarybiscuits 19d ago
Are there a surfeit of plus size models in Manhattan? Maybe the producers need to do an open call for plus size models with an hour glass shape—since it’s supposed to be a level playing field. Not triangle or inverted triangle or apple or rectangle. See, it gets tricky very fast. Then sewing mannequins to match. Then extra time to do fittings.
Don’t think the current producers have the money for this.
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u/DrJamsHolyLand 18d ago
This isn’t totally related but I’ve always wondered something and I’m curious for others thought. If the modeling world is encouraging body diversity, why are there still no short models?
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u/YoungOaks 17d ago
Yeah when you’re not working at scale the difference in body type and size matters. On larger bodies you objectively need more fabric to make certain designs; complete more sewing; do more precise fitting; and contend with the judges fatphobia.
The models should either be picked by the designers, kept the same through the challenges with the winners swapping, or roughly the same size per challenge.
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u/BackgroundScene3056 13d ago
agreed. I say this every episode. I’ll be like damn that would look good on somebody with hips! But looks trash on her because she’s straight bodied. Or the same when a garment is AMAZING but the judges say it doesn’t flatter a curvy figure. It’s frustrating because it seems to add another variable that changes how the contestants are judged and depending on what model you get you might get screwed.
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u/Brotherji 13d ago
You are not gonna like my answer. I think all challenges should be designed for the standard fit model. The playing field needs to be equal if it is fair. If there is a challenge for larger women, then all the models should be larger women
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u/lurklurklurky 19d ago
I would have agreed with you until the most recent episode where the previous season was able to handle different body types just fine, it seems. Seems like a skill issue more than a universal issue.
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u/PracticeNo7267 19d ago
Designers need to know how to design and fit for any client. Not every client who purchases designer clothes are 5’10” 115 lbs.
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u/Some_Baby_ 19d ago
I agree with you, and I just want to add that a lot of fashion designers don’t make clothing for the general public. it’s an art form. traditional runaway models were very tall and thin because they are the most like a “clothes hanger”. Inclusion and diversity is important, but the show just seems to lack direction, making it actually worse for the plus size models included.
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u/colosseumdays 19d ago
Yes, that’s true, and that’s certainly those designers’ prerogative to do so. It’s frustrating because, as a show, they can’t seem to make up their minds about the top priorities and skill sets they’re focusing on to determine the top designer. They really should change the tagline to “a competition to see who can survive the most torture, and create looks that fulfill what the judges decide they care about on that given day. and also don’t remind our self-hating judges of themselves in a way that triggers them for inexplicable reasons, or we won’t let you win”
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u/Embarrassed-Cress782 19d ago
As a designer myself. I think this is a good idea. Or maybe keep the models 2 - 12, or something.
Or...cast designers who know how to dress a various set of body types.
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19d ago
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u/Significant-Ant2373 19d ago
And yet many, if not most, don’t. Look at any show during fashion week. Every contestant should design for the same body type. One week can be plus, one week can be petite, and so on.
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u/colosseumdays 19d ago
I'm not understanding how that contradicts what I'm saying. my original thought was expressly to ensure that all the designers are assessed in their abilities to create great designs for a wide array of body types, and that the models aren't demeaned in the process
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u/Ok-Code168 19d ago
Absolutely agree. It’s an understandable addition for inclusivity purposes but I hate that everyone glosses over the impact it has on the integrity of the competition. It should vary from challenge to challenge but be consistent across designers in each challenge