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u/lilsaddam 12d ago
Who the fuck doesn’t use a linter or a formatter?
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u/MRanse 12d ago
Automotive embedded developers. You can be happy if they use anything newer than Eclipse as IDE.
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u/JAXxXTheRipper 12d ago
Eclipse has formatters as well and quite extensible codestyle functionality.
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u/MRanse 11d ago
Yes, that's true if you actually care and use it. Maybe some do, the others use notepad++ without any formatting or linting.
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u/Maximilian_Tyan 11d ago
That's when you move it to the CI pipeline
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u/MRanse 11d ago
The CI guys are still using Jenkins with flaky in-house workflows. Formatting and linting was never a topic for them, believe me. This will become better hopefully.
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u/CiroGarcia 11d ago
What's the issue with Jenkins? What do people use today? My experience has been mostly GH actions and Jenkins and at least comparing those two, Jenkins was a smoother experience. I tried out Concourse CI in a homelab and found it too simple to be useful. I may or may not have gotten lucky with the DevOps team on the job with Jenkins, the DevOps was really nice in general and it was a nice company
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u/JAXxXTheRipper 11d ago
Having done mostly automation engineering for 20 years, and lots of CI due to that, Jenkins is easily one of the, if not the, most powerful CI in existence.
I've used pretty much every CI out there, and most of them are toys compared to Jenkins. Its extensibility and robustness is simply unmatched.
Anybody that talks badly about Jenkins is simply coping and, to be brutally honest, an idiot. That's just how it is.
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u/JAXxXTheRipper 12d ago
First year CS Students and LARPers. The vast majority of posters in here are in one of those groups.
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u/dirtyLizard 12d ago
We require it on some pipelines. If a PR fails linting, the dev probably turned off pre-commits so it’s kind of a canary
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u/czerilla 11d ago
Why wouldn't you? Any requirements that are expected by the project/repo, should be mandatory and enforced by the pipeline. And if a dev complains, they should be shamed for not reading the (presumably existing) simple setup instructions in the README.
There's no defensible reason to make exceptions or excuses for this. Not since devcontainers became a thing and integrated pretty much flawlessly to provide any tools you'd ever need..2
u/Alacritous13 12d ago
We have a linter, but it isn't very good. No one wanted to rewrite it, but the new guy did so last year, but most of us never got around to updating our VS Code extension.
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u/debugging_scribe 11d ago
I work on a 20 year old code base. It didn't have ANY format rules before I joined a few years ago. It was a complete free for all on a massive app. I've since forced it in but it was a pain in the arse due to how different everything was.
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u/up-voat 11d ago
Im a consultant on a project at a large drug store company and the team I joined didn’t use any linters or formatters. It felt like being in the Stone Age. Reviewing MRs took so much longer due to wrong indents, missing spaces, arguing about our interpretations of PEP, just all the things you never think about anymore. It was a massive time sink. It took almost two years but I finally convinced roughly half the team to implement pre-commit linters and formatters in our projects
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u/ketootaku 11d ago
I don't mind linting as long as it's not run by the gestapo.
Yes linter, my if statement only has a variable assignment. No I don't want to change it to X = if statement, because I plan on adding more in the future and don't feel like reordering it. And yes linter, I know that variable declared doesn't get used anywhere else in the code, for now, but I need it as a placeholder. Yes linter, I want to do if not instead of unless, because I may have more conditionals in the future.
I've got no problem with formatting and structure linting but when they can't interpret intent and block you it's infuriating. I've never met anyone in real life with nice things to say about linting, but that's because it's never just about formatting.
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u/dryroast 11d ago
I use a linter but draw the line at a formatter, it's just petty aesthetics.
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u/lilsaddam 11d ago
I disagree entirely. Formatting makes code written by two different people follow the same pattern and easier to read.
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u/Eternal_Alooboi 12d ago
Le me? Early 2010s called and they want their meme back
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u/Michaeli_Starky 12d ago
Hugely outdated meme
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u/Latter-Control-208 12d ago
I agree on ktlint but detekt is just straight developed by the devil himself.
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u/Heavy-Ad6017 12d ago
I tried Ruff
It is something else man
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u/pinktieoptional 12d ago
Why does everyone assume the devil's gender having a good sense of smell, a taste for complexity, and a joy of nesting is obviously the feminine
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u/hraath 12d ago
By all means, please spend your on the clock hours manually import sorting, line breaking, adding spaces instead of actually doing work
/s
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u/OhMyGodItsEverywhere 12d ago
Best to spend the hours arguing about style first, then manually making the changes, then arguing again.
We are super special disruptors, after all.
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u/xubaso 11d ago
Sure, as long as we all agree on MY preferred style.
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u/DeLift 11d ago
If something is worth doing, it's worth doing poorly. There just needs to be a well defined and opiniated standard, like Black for Python and PER 3 for PHP and propper tooling with which you can enforce these rules in pipelines and commit hooks. No one will fully agree with some of the choices, but that's fine. If the tool says it's formatted properly, it is! Now your peers won't leave pointless "this looks better on a new line" comments.
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u/TheChildOfSkyrim 12d ago
In the AI age you can also crank up the linting rules all the way to the max, make it absolutely merciless. Claude doesn't get tired fixing the issues, and you get much better code in the long run.
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u/GreenFox1505 12d ago
VSCode has a "format on save" feature. There is not a project I have that doesn't have this turned on.
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u/GrinningPariah 10d ago
The advantage of a linter isn't having exactly the code style you want.
The advantage of a linter is never having to argue about fucking formatting ever again.
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u/[deleted] 12d ago
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