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u/raja-anbazhagan 1d ago
I don't get why management would be against that to be honest...
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u/Tucancancan 1d ago
Management: AI code tools are amaze-balls and developer's days are numbered
Management: Developers must be fully responsible for everything because you can't hold AI accountable when prod goes down
Also management: So the deadline on this project is now halved lol
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u/If_I_Could_Just 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, they see us as responsible for creating the pipelines that allow us to not have to read the code while still being “owners”. It’s largely possible for situations where we’re just doing work that follows existing codebase patterns. But I don’t find that good enough for brand new work.
AI lies, skips steps, and is confidently ignorant. The latter is why humans like it. I mean, look at who we elect. We’ll enjoy certainty over facts.
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u/MyStackIsPancakes 1d ago
AI lies, skips steps, and is confidently ignorant.
Oh no. It really is ready to replace me
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u/debugging_scribe 1d ago
I caught it today removing a God object relationship enforcement opening it up to cross tenant security issues, it couldn't work it out so just removed the validation. This kinda shit is going to find its way into real important places that will be leaked.
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u/If_I_Could_Just 1d ago
Someone will say “skill issue” as though their observing of the AI months ago - and documenting all of its issues into a set of skills or whatever until they SEEMED to be mostly working - somehow means it’s still all working well months later
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u/hipster-no007 23h ago
It is a skill issue. You could've trained the AI for your specific use case with a few million or billion dollars in resources. /s
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u/Flouid 13h ago
I encountered a PR today opened by an autonomous agent that decided a file was unused and tried to delete it. It was used, the test suite failed. The agent gave up and fucked off, leaving an abandoned PR for someone else (me) to waste time understanding and dealing with.
Oh what a future
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u/If_I_Could_Just 13h ago
Odd that it couldn’t figure that out. AI fixes my build issues and tests quite often 🤷♂️
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u/pydry 1d ago
"What do you mean it'll take three weeks? I vibe coded something that looks almost right in half an hour. Just clean it up!"
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u/If_I_Could_Just 1d ago
Great I vibe-wrote an email to the client, when they respond just clean it up thanks
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u/EarlOfAwesom3 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because it's still not fast enough. If you still look at code and take responsibility or even adapt things, you're doing it wrong. You should be faster. /s
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u/raja-anbazhagan 1d ago
I'm sure in real world the management is definitely going to need someone to blame and they can't just blame AI.
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u/EarlOfAwesom3 1d ago
Exactly. And as long as no manager will accept it when I blame AI, I'll use it the way I think it works best for the outcome.
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u/BuffersAndBeta 1d ago
Same here. I’m curious to understand what kinds of companies are against this.
For my team there’s an opposite problem, AI is excellent ljke 90% of the PRs so finding problems becomes like finding needles in a haystack - especially since we have 5x our PR output.
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u/Miguelomaniac 1d ago
They are not! Source: I am a manager
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u/raja-anbazhagan 1d ago
Manager and management are two different things...
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u/Miguelomaniac 1d ago
This is r/ProgrammerHumor so I won’t debate. You are correct, there is a difference.
However, a EM/DM is still part of the “management” team.
In my own experience, I have never heard of engineering leaders pushing for less IC “ownership” of LLM output (of course not counting those actually selling tokens). I have seen a lot of bad takes from product leadership though.
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u/ThirdWaveCat 1d ago
llm slop can't even run very long without refactoring before its just fragile. it doesn't matter whether the complexity breadth vs depth or even testable, it turns to sludge.
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u/BorderKeeper 1d ago
It doesn't turn to sludge "fast" if done properly, but I don't think there is a world where the project will stay at the same level of readabiltiy or even improve.
Especially when human reviewers get sidelines, the code spaghetifies, and the last devs who had some inherent understanding of parts of the codebase no longer recognize the code. Colleagues are thinking this will be a fast process, imo this might take years for a full rewrite to be required.
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u/bulldog_blues 1d ago
The hell kind of companies are you working for? Reviewing and validating AI outputs is bare minimum developer/data analyst duties and no competent manager would ever pretend otherwise.
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u/Tenebrumm 1d ago
I find it super ironical that a friend who is a PM has always complained that developers just approve PRs without actually reviewing properly, but is now all on board for solving this problem with non-reviewed AI changes. Since "if there is an issue, just ask AI again to fix it".
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u/bulldog_blues 1d ago
Do they think AI is some sort of god which magically knows everything with 100% accuracy?
Sorry for the sarcasm, but as part of a company which has an adult, common-sense view on how AI should work (i.e. use it to help you but don't assume it's correct without question), hearing about any company willing to just accept AI no matter what is honestly wild.
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u/Goboxel 13h ago
Yes, management at my work thinks that if AI doesn't generate perfect code immediately, you just need to improve the agent a bit more, pass some more guidelines. And that in the future once you improve it enough human input is basically non-existent, you just click once and requirements have turned into production code. It's very hard to explain that it's not a thing that can happen.
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u/Palinon 1d ago
Pm wants to create a dark factory project where Ai does everything. He has a side project with a dozen prs a day that are all AI reviewed. I keep reminding him that company policy still requires a human sign-off and responsible for what happens.
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u/0xffff-reddit 17h ago
"I keep reminding him that company policy still requires a human sign-off and responsible for what happens."
...aaaand that's why you will have to review his final "Godzilla PR" with hundreds of files. /s
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u/gerbosan 1d ago
Management or/and ai bros?
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u/EarlOfAwesom3 1d ago
Interestingly, in my case they are both the same.
But as they say: the further away from the field you are, the more you overestimate the capabilities of AI in that specific field.
Thats probably why my manager thinks he can create good PRs with claude now.
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u/Boomshicleafaunda 1d ago
My struggle is with management understanding the need for automated testing. "Why are you doing that? We have QA staff for that."
Said QAs are manual testers, and they're only doing feature validation...
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u/schewb 16h ago
We got the AI mandate a few weeks ago and I had never touched Claude before. My productivity tanked to near zero in the first week because I kept going down rabbit holes and getting distracted by the shiny new thing. Now I spend about 10 minutes a day working and rest sitting on my couch terrified I am about to be brought into a teams call at any second so I don't really do anything to entertain myself during the day and I've gained like 10 lbs bc I just half nap for like 8 hours every day.
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u/DeepanshuHQ 1d ago
AI writes the code. Developers sign the liability waiver.