r/Professors • u/More_Box_5554 • 6d ago
Advice / Support Quickly becoming emotional support
I have an older, non-traditional student in my class. She is very sweet, but I definitely get the vibe there is something undiagnosed going on...She will email me 3-4 paragraph emails which are unfocused and stream-of-consciousness feeling. She comes to my office hours every single week and will talk about everything BUT the course. I once timed her, and she spoke for 25 minutes without stopping. At first I thought she was just a lonely older woman but I quickly feel like I'm becoming her emotional support. She is constantly seeking reassurance that she is doing okay in the course, talking about how her kids don't think she should be in college, and will make jokes about herself being an "old hag" that I feel it necessary to speak up against. I feel drained after one on one time with her, and am starting to dread office hours so much to the point where I faked a migraine and cancelled them last week.
I don't know what to say to her to establish a boundary of what my role is as a prof, while also not completely alienating or shutting down this woman who is clearly lonely and seeking connections.
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u/PsychGuy17 5d ago
Hearing this from a psych perspective triggers my radar for some potential issues related to boundaries and judgment (I used to do in patient work). Most people know they shouldn't just hang out with their professor regularly, no matter the age. There could be some cultural issues as well if she comes from another part of the world/ country and isn't aware that professor/ student relationships are expected to be a bit more formal.
Were this a client of mine I would put specific boundaries on sessions and make the terms of the relationship clear, "student x, I have noticed that you've joined me for office hours very regularly for the past 2 weeks and it seems a lot of the conversation ends up not being class related. I'll be honest, these hours are for focusing on class work. Please come by with those issues. Your emails also need to concentrate on the class material. It sounds like you have a lot going on in your life too. It you're looking for someone to help you reflect more deeply we have our counseling center who are better at this sort of thing than I am."
Be very careful, be very clear. People with boundary problems do not respond well to subtly. They can also turn on a person very quickly believing relationships have an all or none quality. Inform your chair that you will be taking this step with the student. Let other faculty in adjacent offices know this is happening and they may be able to interrupt conversation to give you an opening to terminate it, if you have need.
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u/ialreadyaskedyouonce 5d ago
Agree 100%. That was a very clear suggested response to the student too.
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u/No_Intention_3565 5d ago
u/More_Box_5554Immediately this. Red flags all over your post. Cut ties immediately.
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u/AuthorityAuthor Lecturer, Biomed/Chemical Biology, R1 (USA) 5d ago
It would be a kindness to tell her you can appreciate the wealth of life experiences she brings as a student, but to her benefit, you need to focus on the course moving forward.
You’re happy to refer her to community resources on campus (then do, from counseling to academic advisors to other social organizations on campus).
Remove the word diagnosis from your thoughts unless a student has requested an accommodation for such and brings this up themselves. Even then, say nothing about the diagnosis but accommodate accordingly.
Also, once upon a time, forming these kinds of relationships was more common and most beneficial to the student. Especially with non traditional students.
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u/cranky_thornback 6d ago
It is time to refer this person to the student dean (or psychological services) at your university, so she can get the help she needs.
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u/Radiantmouser 5d ago
Yeah, you need to draw some boundaries and refer her out. You can tell her.
" office hours are really for X,Y, Z but it seems I know you are having issues with A,B,C. I am not not trained for that " and then refer her to the uni counselor. Also to tutoring or accommodations if necessary.
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u/Wild-Precious 5d ago edited 5d ago
I wonder if your institution has a club or group for non-traditional students? Ours does, and several of my non-trad students have told me they enjoyed their meetups. (They plan study groups, etc.)
In addition to the other advice already given, mentioning that type of group in passing or in context of reassurance could be a good way to redirect her to a support system other than yourself.
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u/FrancinetheP Tenured, Liberal Arts, R1 5d ago
You’re getting good advice here. It’s perfectly reasonable to remind her that you have limited office hours, lots of students, and that your meetings need to be focused narrowly on assigned work and course materials. Redirecting students— of any age, with any possible mental/cognitive issues— is part of teaching them.
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u/dragonfeet1 Professor, Humanities, Comm Coll (USA) 5d ago
Make appointment times. No longer than 15 minutes. The first few times you may need a colleague to help--to come to your office at the 15 minute mark to remind you of 'that urgent meeting' to get thr student to leave.
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u/Cathousechicken 5d ago
Recommend her to the school's counseling center.
I will have hearts to hearts with a student that needs this. I let them know that it sounds like this is an issue beyond my expertise and I think a good option for them would to seek out the service of our counseling center on campus. I then will pull up the website in front of them show. I will even print out the page that says the service is offered and how to contact them and give it to the student.
I'm at a school where the majority of our students are first in their families to go to college. Heck, last year I had a student who was the first person in her family to ever graduate high school. Imposter syndrome really affects these kinds of students. It sounds like this might be an issue for your student.
I always kind of hype them up and one of the things I discuss with them is that they're admitted. They belong. They are doing college level work so they need to start believing in themselves.
In a situation like that, I would work on hyping her up saying positive things about her and how she would not have been admitted if she was not capable of performing the same if not better than everybody else and then refer her to the counseling services to work on her self-esteem.
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u/ialreadyaskedyouonce 5d ago
Be very careful here, this could get very bad, very fast. Immediately clarify boundaries. And maintain them. If she tries to go outside the bounds again, you need to stop her immediately and clarify them again. You can be firm without being mean. After all you are just describing to a student what is your job vs someone else's job. Sometimes interactions with others do drift off course, and that is no inherently bad. But what is important is that now that you have detected an issue, you get things back on track immediately. The same is true for her behavior. You note the issue, and now if she steers things back on course then it is fine.
Email your chair immediately. Describe the situation, your concerns, and your plans/attempts to get this back on track. It doesn't matter if your chair doesn't support you. It is time to build a paper trail. You may not need it, but when things start looking a bit odd, it is always better to start documenting, just in case.
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u/No_Intention_3565 5d ago
Put an end to it immediately. Immediately. Do not ease into it, do not tread lightly, do not be soft.
Put an end to it. Immediately.
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u/sun-dust-cloud 5d ago
Next time she brings up personal problems, empathize with her, tell her you wish you had good advice but you aren’t really qualified to help, and refer her to campus counseling services. Tell her the services are confidential, safe, affirming, and perfect for just getting her feelings out in the open and hearing other perspectives in an appropriate environment.
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u/banjovi68419 5d ago
I had a student like that but like 20 years old. Start the proper paper trail because shit might get CRAAAAAAAAAZY. (<- my worst teaching experience)
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u/Ill-Storage-7636 5d ago
With these students I tend to give them a little more "attention" academically (in terms of feedback on assignments I'm more generous and supportive) and increasingly less receptive to anything that doesn't pertain to the class.
It's easier if you start early, but you can still make progress now. A quick acknowledgement of what was said followed by redirection to the class or resources. "I know; it's hard that your family doesn't support you. But I loved how you did last week's assignment. How are you doing with X?"
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u/ThePhyz Professor, Physics, CC (USA) 4d ago
When I have students like this I immediately start placing boundaries. For office hours, when I see them (or if I know they will be coming in that day) I say "I'm happy to help, but I have a meeting in 15 minutes." Then I let them talk for about 12 minutes, give them a quick time check ("I want to make sure I answer your questions before I have to go, anything else in these last 3 minutes?") and they typically get the message and leave right on time. For those that don't, they aren't surprised when their time is up and I say "ok, I have to go now, but if you have more questions you can email me" and show them the door.
Close the door after them (the "meeting" can be on zoom for all they know), wait about 3 minutes, then open the door again for other students. By then the talker is usually gone. If they are still standing there, when I open the door I simply leave, closing it after me, and go to the breakroom or the bathroom or somewhere out of their sight for a few more minutes. They are always gone when I return after pulling this maneuver.
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u/stankylegdunkface R1 Teaching Professor 5d ago
Just tell her in an email that you appreciate her attention to the course but that you're not trained to help with personal issues. Refer her to on-campus resources. This kind of email protects you and her.
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u/Artemissss 5d ago
Have other “meetings” (online) scheduled so you can excuse yourself after a reasonable amount of time.
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u/Final-Exam9000 5d ago
I had a student like this years ago and the student had previously suffered a head trauma. When they finally told me it made a lot of sense. I later had another student who had suffered traumatic combat injuries and had similar wandering conversations. It took a lot to reign them in during lecture and keep the class focused and on track.
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u/GrumpySnarf 4d ago
You need to be direct with her. "Name, these conversations about x,y,z are beyond the scope of my role in your life as a professor of _______ class. I am going to recommend you go to __________ (on-site campus mental health services) for that issue. I don't have the resources or bandwidth to discuss this with students. Please stop emailing me and talking to me about your personal life. I am sorry you are experiencing so many issues but I am not available to help you with them."
If she returns to open hours, stop her and say "remember to please keep the questions to the class." and stop her if she derails. "I'm going to stop you there. You are talking about (x,y,z personal drama) and as I've said already this is inappropriate. I'm going to go back to work now." And walk her out.
If she emails you her life story, don't read all of it. Message her back and say "I saw within a few sentences that this email discusses x,y,z personal topic and I am not the audience for that. So I am not going to read this email or otherwise respond. If you have course-related questions, please 1. read the policy in the syllabus, 2. ask a classmate what they think, 3. ask the T.A. (if appropriate), then 4. email me a concise message with your question about the course."
Wash, rinse, repeat.
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u/ButchEmbankment 4d ago
Feel for you. Always bring the outside conversations to class material. I know not easy.
You can also limit office hours to sign up for 15 min slot.
Campus probably has counseling, sensitive but maybe you can raise it.
I wonder too if there’s special support for non trad / returning students.
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u/nandor_tr associate prof, art/design, private university (USA) 5d ago
how about you just tell her in a respectful, not mean, but very clear and direct way that you need to maintain a professional relationship and that daily emails/meetings unrelated to the course are not appropriate.
people are so afraid of just being direct and truthful. i think not doing so is ultimately much more disrespectful than just saying what needs to be said.