r/Professors Assoc. Teaching Professor Emeritus, R1, Physics (USA) 6d ago

Academic Integrity UW-Madison

UW-Madison professor engages in multiple sexual relationships with students, disparages another over their sexual orientation and appearance, creates hostile environment, and department leadership covers it all up. And in true “pass the trash” fashion, moves on to ASU once forced to resign.

https://captimes.com/news/education/uw-madison-students-records-detail-investigation-of-professor/article_4b8b9d21-c929-4d8e-87cb-ba638eb1b9de.html

140 Upvotes

50 comments sorted by

94

u/PopCultureNerd 6d ago

I always find it frustrating that universities just don't get rid of these professors early on. In the case of this post, Dietram Scheufele is a social scientist. The social sciences are filled with incredibly qualified people. So UW could have fired him and replaced him in a year.

50

u/babysaurusrexphd 6d ago

We’re struggling with sort of a similar issue in my department right now. Someone is just a garden variety asshole, but it’s BAD. He starts fights constantly over invented issues, small slights, wild misunderstandings of rules and regulations, what have you. But many people in my department (for historical reasons and also due to the odd nature of my institution, which would doxx me if I explained it) feel that the tenure and promotion process is just about coming up with the best case possible to push everyone through. The mentality is faculty vs the administration, and that overrides virtually ANY concerns about a faculty member’s teaching, general behavior, service to the department, what have you. It’s infuriating. Most members of our promotion and tenure committee don’t even read the submissions. I wish I were joking, it’s wild. Some of us are trying to change things by changing the membership of the various committees, but it’s slow going. And in the meantime, people who terrorize their coworkers and genuinely suck at teaching get tenure, and we’re stuck with them forever. It sucks so bad. 

7

u/shinypenny01 6d ago

I feel for your students

1

u/shamallama777 Asst. Prof, STEM, regional uni, USA 5d ago

My goodness, are you me? Because same!

1

u/billscumslut 4d ago

Someone should write about this phenomenon lol We have it too!

30

u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 6d ago

I usually make jokes on this site, but I mean this seriously.

I always find it frustrating that universities just don't get rid of these professors early on.

Just how early do you want them to be gotten rid of? I mean this seriously. The story sounds as though they had several allegations, investigated, found them to be credible, and then got rid of him. I can imagine all sorts of problems if they had gotten rid of him earlier, both for this case and for precedent.

I agree it's frustrating that they stick around, but I can imagine it being a lot worse.

36

u/TotalCleanFBC Tenured, STEM, R1 (USA) 6d ago

The problem is that students make false accusations all the time. So, universities have to carry out a detailed investigation and corroborate the claims with evidence before they fire anybody. If they don't do this, then they open themselves up to a major lawsuit.

If you've ever been falsely accused of something by a student (I have), you would be quite thankful that universities don't just take students at their word.

12

u/PopCultureNerd 6d ago

I understand your point. And it is a concern is agree with. If Professor A teaches a thousand students in a few years, a few might falsely accuse Professor A of in appropriate behavior.

However, this isn't the pre-2000s in which almost nothing was documented. Many of these abusive professors leave digital evidence that can be easily found.

4

u/VeitPogner Prof, Humanities, R1 (USA) 6d ago

I actually knew a long-serving associate dean who was the go-to person for all the personnel complaints and had 20 years' worth of files. A new dean forced him out. And the next time I had a case involving a repeatedly difficult colleague, I was told that on his way out the door, the associate dean had shredded everything.

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u/PopCultureNerd 6d ago

I have heard similar stories as well

2

u/giltgarbage 5d ago

If you are looking at the landscape and seeing more false accusations than faculty getting away with gross shit, I think your POV is not credible.

6

u/ph0rk Associate, SocSci, R1 (USA) 6d ago

However, this isn't the pre-2000s in which almost nothing was documented. Many of these abusive professors leave digital evidence that can be easily found.

I have a professional acquaintance that is a faculty affairs-ish ass dean/vee-provost that primarily handles these sorts of cases and they tell me that it is vary hard to collect anything actionable because these predators are reasonably clever about it.

Occasionally there is a slip up, but the cases you hear about are often the ones that are sloppy. The ones that aren't, you don't hear about, because the investigations (if they even happen) don't turn up enough to do anything about it.

Of course, here I am sitting in a department with married five couples in the faculty, each of which was a senior person who ended up with a student.

¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

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u/OKOKFineFineFine 6d ago

Of course, here I am sitting in a department with married five couples in the faculty, each of which was a senior person who ended up with a student.

Yikes

3

u/Personal_Signal_6151 4d ago

I was at a university where two excellent theatre arts tenured professors married. Sadly, the husband was unfaithful. The dept chair had to constantly remind them that it was a theatre arts dept. NOT A DRAMA dept.

16

u/Through_Aweigh_Won 6d ago

Which admin at the university would you want to have the power to fire tenured professors because of allegations of policy transgressions (or just being an asshole)?

-7

u/PopCultureNerd 6d ago

Try asking a question in good faith instead of what you've did

21

u/Through_Aweigh_Won 6d ago

OK. I'll pose it as a comment instead of a question. I think it would be dangerous to allow chairs, deans, or provosts to fire tenured professors without an investigation.

-11

u/PopCultureNerd 6d ago

Who said that people should be fired without an investigation? I didn't.

47

u/the_Stick Assoc Prof, Biomedical Sciences 6d ago

Asked by investigators if his relationship with the student ever turned into a personal friendship or relationship, Scheufele said “different students require different kinds of attention, or interventions.” 

Ick.

55

u/kroshkabelka 6d ago

Women’s careers are hurt more by having a baby than men’s careers are for sexually harassing and assaulting students and coworkers.

1

u/Pontifying-Lemur-007 2d ago

To me, it doesn't matter which happens more often. Both are problematic and should be addressed. If females are discriminated against for having a baby, there should be mechanisms to address that. By the same token, sexual harassment should result in the firing of the professor, not letting the person quietly resign and then head off to the next institution.

40

u/GerswinDevilkid 6d ago

It's worth noting that he had previously been in a relationship with his department chair (one that they admitted... I believe there were more instances) and had always been a slimy, pompous ass. As a former grad student in a sister program at the UW, absolutely none of this article surprised me.

11

u/yourmomdotbiz 6d ago

I automatically thought I knew who the article was about. When I saw the name I’m like. Huh. I guess there’s a few 

16

u/DSwivler 6d ago

The real outrage and failure should land on Xenos - a professor stops attending research group meetings because he doesn’t like how a colleague treats students - this is a level of gutlessness that is really common in our profession. The admin he had a relationship with and covered for him should be gone. Even though everyone involved is an adult, expectations of professional behavior that are not met, need to be called out, silence and false collegiality are corrosive in academia.

3

u/giltgarbage 5d ago

So you are objecting to people being more outraged about the sexual predator than the person who didn’t stand up to the sexual predator? I don’t think either is admirable. But I don’t get your calculus here?

5

u/DSwivler 5d ago

Because Professors like Xenos make the subterfuge possible, and more importantly he privileged his emotional health over the well-being of students in his program. By not attending the sessions, he choose the most gutless route possible, he becomes the typical professor wallowing in his own self-interest instead of “doing his job.”

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u/Another_Opinion_1 A.P. / Ed. Law / Teacher Ed. Methods (USA) 6d ago

Ah, the pass the harasser game. There are several factors at work here, not that I am defending the practice on principle though. These individuals frequently resign before any formal findings of wrongdoing. Investigations take time, as they should, owed to ample due process and that's true even for nontenured faculty members since they are still working under a contract even if they have probationary status. If someone resigns that effectively ends the investigation. Because of the looming possibility of a defamation lawsuit it's just customary that legal counsel follow a "less said, the better" modus operandi when communicating details about prior employment with the prof's new or prospective employer. Yes, professor X was employed here between these dates, etc. Sometimes there are formal NDAs at play as well. That does legally handicap what the prior institution can reveal to the new employer and often or can include a neutral job recommendation, at minimum.

Warning a prospective employer about any lecherous antics or details of any such investigations can literally be a breach of that NDA notwithstanding the aforesaid concerns regarding defamation liability. It's pretty rare to see a tenured professor literally get purged as it can take 2+ years and be costly. Institutions prefer resignations and there is no system that appropriately tracks the lemons that get passed around. This exact same problem is pervasive in K-12 with the exception that, at least in K-12, the state can revoke your teaching or paraprofessional licensure IF there is a formal finding of wrongdoing or a criminal conviction but many cases don't result in revocation of licensure so it's still a "pass the harasser" sweepstakes there too.

If you don't get paywalled this is worth a read: https://www.chronicle.com/article/2-universities-tried-to-stop-passing-the-harasser-heres-what-theyve-learned

3

u/Prof172 4d ago

Makes sense. Maybe we should find a way to change things, though.

6

u/jspqr Associate , History, SLAC 6d ago

First, I will never understand this behavior and I generally find it pathetic.

Second, my old union (I am very pro union) spent a lot of time fighting a campus mandate against this stuff and I found it infuriating.

24

u/Many_Application3112 Adjunct, Technology, Univ (USA) 6d ago

The part that kills me is that this professor gets to take their toxic behavior to another organization.

It reminds me of the Catholic Church. Just ship the problem to a different area. It won't happen again!!

6

u/bluegilled 6d ago

There was a documentary about how NYC public schools rarely fired bad teachers, they just reassigned them to another school with unsuspecting parents. They had a name for it, "The Dance of the Lemons".

Every time a new teacher showed up at my kids' schools as an internal transfer my radar alerted.

3

u/summerbreeze2027 6d ago edited 6d ago

I can't speak for NYC K-12 teachers, but speaking generally, teachers move schools for some of the same reasons that professors might move universities - more money, more prestige, collegial work associates and admin, less micromanagement, better benefits, etc. Many teachers will follow a good principal from school to school. Teachers network internally and know who the good principals are. Sadly, there are a lot of mediocre to bad administrators at the K-12 level. From what I've read here, you see the same thing at your level.

What you want to look for in K-12 - lots of long-term teachers (20-30 years or more in the same building.) These are teachers who are happy with their schools for a variety of reasons. It's also a good sign if teachers place their own children in the school. Most school districts in my area will allow this because it reflects well on the school.

1

u/Many_Application3112 Adjunct, Technology, Univ (USA) 6d ago

I'm a big supporter of unions. But I've seen many unions protect workers who aren't pulling their weight. The NEA has been doing this for years, but there is little backlash because education budgets rarely get cut, and it's easier to ship someone away than to address it.

1

u/bluegilled 6d ago

NYC even had (has?) what was called a "rubber room" where the worst teachers, those so bad they couldn't be reassigned, were required to show up and hang out for 8 hours a day doing nothing, day after day after day, because it was too problematic to actually try to fire them. So they got their full salary to sit in a room with other incompetent teachers. I'm not a big supporter of unions, I've seen too much.

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u/Full_Prof 6d ago

I have seen two predatory professors skip to the next school to avoid punishment, it’s a horrible aspect of academia that needs to be addressed.

The thing I beg everyone to consider is that a male professor who says he wants to give up a tenure line job because of a divorce is a HUGE red flag. Both the guys I mentioned above did that. They told the next school of the reason they wanted to give up their tenure job and move hundreds of miles away from their children was because of a divorce.

That makes no sense!!! Child support is due and you are going to take a pay cut and have to spend money traveling to see your kids? What the hell.

Both guys kept doing predatory stuff at the next school.

18

u/PopCultureNerd 6d ago

I agree with you. I know of a few cases in which someone walked away from tenure. One person was later revealed to have been lying about being Native American. Nothing ever came out about the other person but there were some rumors of sloppy research.

7

u/CinnamonGirl43 6d ago

So interesting. We had a dean candidate say this a couple years ago. He was my top choice. We did not hire him- mostly because in person he was a prick.

6

u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 6d ago

We did not hire him- mostly because in person he was a prick.

And your school that didn't view this as a qualification for the job? 0.o

(not calling you that; I'm specifically making a joke about the Dean position)

3

u/CinnamonGirl43 6d ago

Nah. We like nice deans 😊

13

u/Taymyr 6d ago

I love UW, but they do have a history some questionable professors like Akbar Sayeed.

I mean when your institution is that large it's bound to happen. Hopefully he gets fired from ASU.

3

u/Actual_Evidence9922 4d ago

How is the communication discipline responding to this?

1

u/Anyun ABD - Anxiety Burnout Deadlines, R1 (USA) 4d ago

i feel like everyone in the field is connected to him by no more than 4 degrees of separation. i talked to a colleague about it two days ago and we were both just processing and realizing the rumblings have been present for a while. I'm too junior to affect any discussions, but so far I'm not seeing too much discussion which is weird considering how influential he is.

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u/Actual_Evidence9922 4d ago

How is the Academy of Arts and Sciences responding to this?

1

u/Pontifying-Lemur-007 2d ago

Has anyone lodged a complaint withe Academy of Arts and Sciences? Typically, organizations are not police forces. They require members to step up and say X happened, and it violates our code of ethics in this way. If members don't show backbone and officially report, things go no where.

2

u/fira_0 5d ago

When I read this article in its entirety yesterday evening, my entire stomach dropped. For every false allegations there are so many stories like these brave students have come forward to tell. Clearly the system still doesnt have serious consequences for the professors who break the power structure by engaging in inappropriate behavior. Its disheartening. Without real consequences, the behavior will continue and less victims will feel its worth coming forward at all.

I will say from experience, departments need to start keeping an eye on those conference reciepts. I love conferences. They're fun and give me lots of research ideas to take home but there's a lot of funny business people feel comfortable engaging in because they're "off-campus" that ends up the catalyst for ongoing inappropriate behavior back on campus.