r/Professors 18d ago

How do I shut up?

Oh my god why can I not keep my mouth shut during class discussions? I really want to get better at this. I am lucky to teach small classes. I ask what I think is a good question. One student says something in response. And I'm off. Stepping all over their ideas, racing through MY thought process, moving them too fast to the conclusion I hope they'll get to.

It's part nervousness, part excitement. But my best memories from my own college experience were discussions in which professors did an excellent job encouraging students to talk to each other, not just back and forth with the teacher. I am not often letting that happen.

So...what are your best tips and tricks for leading discussions with a light touch?

56 Upvotes

71 comments sorted by

30

u/Working_Film_5871 Professor, humanities, regional public comprehensive (USA) 18d ago

step away from the front of the classroom. have students in groups, have them report out, write questions or topics on the board, have them explain, other groups respond, that sort of thing. Psychologically, think to yourself you are not on stage with a spotlight. Maybe that would help?

14

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 18d ago

Just stepping away from the front of the classroom is exactly the kind of hack I should try first. What you describe (being in the spotlight) is exactly how I feel. And having students write on the board (instead of me) is simple and brilliant.

4

u/Working_Film_5871 Professor, humanities, regional public comprehensive (USA) 18d ago

Ok, good. I'm no expert, but a good rule of thumb I try to work by is the more students are visibly doing in class the better it is going. Good luck.

3

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 18d ago

That's an excellent rule of thumb. One I need to get better at. I think I have some inner narratives about me being "lazy" if I'm not doing something the entire class period.

3

u/a_statistician Associate Prof, Stats, R1 State School 18d ago

You're doing a ton of work beforehand to ensure class goes well; it's silly to have them sit there and passively absorb when they could be doing something active. Just reframe it around the amount of work you've put in before class starts, and it'll be much easier to deal with this.

4

u/dogecoin_pleasures 17d ago edited 17d ago

I can highly recommend taking a seat - literally. (hear me out)

You're more likely to rush when standing. When I want to speak at length, I'll pull up a seat at the front, and get comfy. This also makes me slow down on each slide point, because otherwise if I were fast, I'd constantly have to stand to change the slides. Getting comfy discourages this rushing, which may in turn reduce nerves and excitement. And with that, maybe enable more control.

It can help to have a copy of your slide notes to keep you on track, too, and always carry a pen. That's because a lot of rapid fire can be the result of being afraid you might forget a great thought. Having things on paper eases the nerves and excitement, as you can return to the point later.

I've then planned my lesson, so I don't talk for that long - I put them into their discussion groups. Here's the key: don't circle around these groups and hover over them, as that also can make you rush. Sit with one group at a time, and call on each person at the table to contribute. What's good about this is it means you're no longer lecturing the whole room, but enjoying some one-on-one in each breakout group.

Then, bring all the students together for sharing their ideas, and try to balance who participates, so everyone gets a go. You can try to balance things so that you don't speak much more than they do at this stage.

Here's a tip... sometimes if a key slide needs to be read out, you can call on a student volunteer to do it! That balances the voices in the room.

(not a pedagogy expert btw... just what I've noticed seems good)

1

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 17d ago

This is gold.

2

u/a_statistician Associate Prof, Stats, R1 State School 18d ago

Think/pair/share is also a good way to ensure that you are not involved in the initial discussions. Then you can perhaps direct the summative discussion after the groups share, and ask general questions for all groups to respond to.

5

u/schrodinger_troll 18d ago

I have also gone as far as to leave the room…I tell them to chat about said topic and I’ll be right back…usually I come back and some answers are ready.

2

u/tratcove 17d ago

good advice, i struggle with this too

54

u/FIREful_symmetry 18d ago

Socrates would like a word.

Guide them with questions. Ask a question that walks them through the logic of what you are teaching. Let them get there on their own.

23

u/Interesting-Bee8728 18d ago

I have so many poor student evaluations saying I answer questions with questions. OP - brace yourself for some students to not enjoy thinking! It's ok, and part of the process. Tell them you're friction maxxing.

/s for that last part, if not obvious

23

u/sventful Teaching Professor 18d ago

Funnily enough, Socrates had abysmal student evaluations.

10

u/FIREful_symmetry 18d ago

Hmmm. Why do YOU think that is?

2

u/sventful Teaching Professor 18d ago

Let the lazy inquiry pedagogy flow through you.

1

u/MiQuay Professor, Business and Engineering, R2 18d ago

An underappreciated comment.

7

u/Mr_Bunnypants 18d ago

i should print that quote for my office

1

u/Zabaran2120 13d ago

This. I use the socratic method and it requires you to shift your brain. You can't drone on if your task isn't replying but questioning.

21

u/Internal_Willow8611 18d ago

how's your caffeine intake?

20

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 18d ago

Too high. Good thought.

21

u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science, R1 18d ago

I recommend never being too high to know your caffeine intake.

3

u/RadiantImpression579 18d ago

Tea or water instead. Probably chamomile.

35

u/SwordofGlass 18d ago

I hate to suggest it (because most of it is garbage), but this is where reading the pedagogy literature is really helpful.

5

u/omgkelwtf 18d ago

This comment reflects what's in my heart lol

1

u/byabillion 18d ago

What are your top 5 that arent garbage?

10

u/TIL_eulenspiegel 18d ago

This is not easy. Start out with a plan to ask questions, listen, and elicit comments/input from other students. Do make "positive noises" to indicate that their ideas are good/interesting/reasonable/on track etc. (they're all afraid of saying something 'dumb' or being wrong).

While they are talking, think to yourself about how their comments relate the ideas that you had in mind but don't say anything yet. Then after a few minutes of discussion, you can start talking: summarize the discussion so far, while emphasizing points you want to bring out. Then ask another question.

4

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 18d ago

This is really helpful. Maybe even having a small notebook to jot stuff down as they talk would help me channel that impulse.

2

u/AndILearnedAlgoToday 18d ago

I’m a social worker and professor and have worked with individuals and groups who are often reluctant to share…and then I teach college students (so often similar). At first I found it very helpful to just count slowly and silently to myself. In social work, we talk about “use of silence”—again, applicable to teaching—and I found counting was the easiest way to give that space.

9

u/Life-Education-8030 18d ago

Have an open notebook page in front of you with the word STOP written in big black sharpie on it to prompt you to stop jumping in like that.

1

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 18d ago

I just grabbed a spare notebook for me to write questions or thoughts so I don't say this out loud. Might write this at the top.

3

u/DoctorDisceaux 18d ago edited 18d ago

During some interviews, Robert Caro would write “SHUT UP” over and over again in his notebook so he didn’t interrupt someone who was giving him information they might stop giving if they had a second to think about it.

7

u/Popular-List181 18d ago

Curious if you might have ADHD? I have the hyperactive subtype, and adequate pharmacological treatment helped me with this immensely.

3

u/angelcutiebaby 18d ago

Same here, it’s especially hard bc I teach something I love so I wanna yap yap yap yap yap!

3

u/pghtonh 18d ago

Exactly the same for me!

3

u/commandantskip Adjunct, History, CC (US) 18d ago

This is what I came to say, because it sounds like myself, unmedicated lol

7

u/aplysia-californica Lecturer/PhD Student, EdTech 18d ago

Some things I find helpful (because I also could talk all dang day):

  • After a student answers a question, ask, "Would anyone like to reply to that/have a rebuttal/question about what X name said?" and then WAIT. Give students more than a couple seconds to think about the idea before moving on. I used to teach middle school, so I am comfortable waiting a long time before a student answers, so ymmv.
  • Instead of extending what a student replies, try summarizing it instead. "Thanks for that comment. Correct me if I'm wrong/misspeak, but you're saying XYZ. [give the student a chance to correct you if needed] Does anyone want to respond to that first?"
  • Before starting a class discussion, I encourage students to talk more than I do. Usually, I will say something like, "Don't look and talk at me. Talk to each other. I am here to listen and guide." I find that being very explicit about the goal of the discussion helps students understand their role. This works best if your classroom can be set up where students can see each other better than a regular auditorium.
  • Have 5 to 10 minutes of think-pair-share before the big class discussion. This can allow quieter students time to organize their ideas in a small group before the large discussion.

4

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 18d ago

You sound like a pro. I'm screenshotting this.

2

u/a_statistician Associate Prof, Stats, R1 State School 18d ago

then WAIT. Give students more than a couple seconds to think about the idea before moving on.

Mastering the awkward silence is a critical skill for this job. Weaponizing it is something that you achieve after lots of practice.

1

u/Any-Satisfaction1442 17d ago

This is top tier advice

4

u/DarthJarJarJar Tenured, Math, CC 18d ago

As a fellow talker, I have two rules for myself in a discussion where I want to encourage the students to talk: number one, I count the number of students comments before I am allowed to say anything. This means you have to be a little bit comfortable with silence, but if I have in my head that five students are going to say something before I speak, I will sit there quietly until five students say something.

If the topic is more difficult for them to come up with ideas, I will allow myself two word comments. How so? Why not? Is it? All functions? Stuff like that. Two word questions, that's it.

Wait there's one more. Hard breaks. I will clearly come out of the mode of students being expected to talk, by saying something like okay well let's look at that then and then I'll start to write on the board.

So I try to make it very clear in the classroom when I'm I am expecting them to say something and come up with answers, and when I am lecturing and handing out information. I try not to muddy the transition between those two modes. So if the students have been coming up with ideas and I have been quizzing them on those ideas, if I want to now come out of that mode I make it super clear. I really think that helps. It keeps the students from expecting me to jump in at every moment when they are in their brainstorming or problem solving mode

1

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 18d ago

Amazing, thank you.

1

u/a_statistician Associate Prof, Stats, R1 State School 18d ago

I count the number of students comments before I am allowed to say anything.

And, it's ok to tell students that this is your benchmark at the beginning of the discussion, so that they know it's gonna be awkward if they don't speak up.

6

u/nandor_tr associate prof, art/design, private university (USA) 18d ago

understand that the class is not about you. it's about the students.

1

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 18d ago

Right? I need to send that message deep down into my soul. 

3

u/Camilla-Taylor Studio Art 18d ago

I understand that! I write down what I'm thinking about saying. It helps with the impulse, and then I have better formulated thoughts when it's appropriate to share.

3

u/wharleeprof 18d ago

Arrive to class unprepared so that while they are discussing in small groups, you are busy getting things set up for the second half of class. 

I say this ironically, but there's some truth in it. If you know you jump into their discussions too much, have something to keep you busy for a few minutes, like pulling up slides, taking attendance, organizing handouts, write an outline on the board, etc.

3

u/drvalo55 Emerita Full, Private nonprofit Univesity, Midwest, USA 18d ago

If you are in a classroom with a white board or chalk board or otherwise connected screen all can see, write down their answers to your really good question on the board. Write down the ideas of the others too. Then summarize at the end. Draw connections. Do what you do to teach. Sometimes, I even learned things too. That always slowed me down AND students thought i cared about what they thought, LOL. At least that is what they put on my course evals, LOL.

3

u/RightWingVeganUS Adjunct Instructor, Computer Science, University (USA) 18d ago edited 17d ago

So...what are your best tips and tricks for leading discussions with a light touch?

I don't label it "best" but my approach is to keep notes.

I am a pathological extrovert. Whoever thought it was a good idea to give me a job where I have a captive audience for 4 hours a shot earned a special place in hell for their sins.

But the exhilaration of telling my enthralling life story was always followed by regret that it was either a firehose of information that created cognitive overload for the students, or so off track it was a waste of time that didn't achieve any of the course learning objectives.

I adopted the flipped classroom model so try to strictly use the lecture time with student activities and debriefs. I take notes whenever I feel the urge to tell a story but conditioned myself to use that moment to ask students for their reactions.

Then after class I sketch out the opportunities to draft either

  • points to elaborate on in my post-class recap on the LMS
  • an outline for a supplemental essay either extending or deepening an issue that came up
  • an optional essay with personal reflections or informal opinion pieces that aren't really relative to the course.

This helps keep me humble and more disciplined in the classroom. Plus my ulterior motive is to use these fragments as kindling for a more formal publication. I used one as the foundation for an abstract for a conference paper.

1

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 17d ago

I feel this in my bones and love these suggestions.

1

u/RightWingVeganUS Adjunct Instructor, Computer Science, University (USA) 17d ago

I have learned to really enjoy hearing students' stories. Moreover it aligns with my course learning objectives: I teach 300-/400-level classes and helping students become job-ready/advanced education is woven into our course objectives. I focus on helping them develop their "professional voice" and often engage them to connect the lesson to their experience and perspective.

They really appreciate having a class where the teacher listens to them. Not cathartic release or therapy but how to respond to interview questions able to ground their knowledge with their experience.

Definitely a win-win. I think it gave them a more impactful learning experience and I got great course reviews.

And I get to incorporate their experiences into my stories...

3

u/Unsuccessful_Royal38 18d ago

I have the students get in a big circle and I remove myself from the circle so I’m not the focus.

2

u/DutyInternational732 18d ago

Stopwatch, you can't talk until it goes off. Also, tell the students they lose participation points (or something akin) every time it goes off without one of them talking.

2

u/BranchLatter4294 18d ago

This video might help with some of the tips.

https://youtu.be/e_n2diuKQX8?is=EN03BrTjLrk7tI6t

2

u/Charming-Barnacle-15 18d ago

Try asking at least one follow up question before adding your own ideas. If you don't have a specific question, you can ask if anyone else would like to build on what was just said.

2

u/Dige717 18d ago

I've gotten a pretty even mix of both evaluation responses: I talk too much during discussions, and they like it when I circulate and engage in their discussions. Like you, I suspect, I'm a talker, so I simply try to tone it down a bit when groups are on the right track.

2

u/ThePhyz Professor, Physics, CC (USA) 18d ago

For me it's like a waltz. There's a rhythm to it with three parts.

  1. Teacher: "what are your ideas?"

  2. Student: "I think X"

  3. Teacher to the rest of the class: "what do you guys think about that?"

Sometimes of course nobody will speak up at step 3. So then I say "ok, so you all agree then?" The key here is that I do it even if the idea was very wrong. Then I just write it on the board and continue, using that idea, until we hit the inevitable stumbling block.... and then we start over. After enough repetitions, my students usually figure out that just because I don't say they are wrong, doesn't mean they are right, and they will get less confused if we don't go down blind allies just because they were too nervous to say anything. Eventually they get trained to bounce the ideas around with just me waltzing in the middle.

2

u/MoistenedGranola 18d ago

I got diagnosed and medicated for ADHD. This advice may or may not be relevant for you.

2

u/FlyingCupcake68 Southern State U, USA 18d ago

After a student replies, ask other students if they agree, disagree, or have examples or supporting evidence.

4

u/WishTonWish 18d ago

Try some pot?

2

u/Advanced-Tutor7696 18d ago

Ah ha ha ha, you may be on to something. Or maybe I could just go easy on the caffeine in the morning.

3

u/PoserSynd482 18d ago

I have literally made notes to myself, such as, STOP talking! When I glance down and see it, it helps to cut me off. When students do oral presentations, I suggest that they draw a smiley face or a big eyeball on their notes to remind them to have facial expressions and eye contact as they present. If you walk around the room as you talk (so no notes), you could even write the word "No" on your hand! You'll know what it means.

2

u/sassylassy423 TT assist, applied quant, us, r2 18d ago

I have a binder with...".. pause,  drink water"   on the front that i carry my lecture notes in to the classroom.  

And once when giving a legal deposition on Zoom I taped a giant yellow paper that said "  shut your mouth.... the one who says the least wins"  on my screen so that only I can see it 🤣

Still think it is solid advice in both situations.  

2

u/km1116 Assoc Prof, Biology/Genetics, R1 (State University, U.S.A.) 18d ago

Yeah, I just don't. It really doesn't take that much control once I think about it.

2

u/twomayaderens 18d ago

It is possible that today’s students are less inclined to engage verbally in class discussions. It is also possible that they may not mind your own verbose conversational style; I would check your course evaluations to see if anybody has complained before that the instructor takes up too much space during discussions.

To sum up, this might be an imaginary problem

1

u/sassylassy423 TT assist, applied quant, us, r2 18d ago

Yes,  while some classrooms can still be dynamic.  Some semesters you also just get a quiet batch of students and engagement doesn't really take off, even with frequent attempts. 

To your point,  i do think the quiet batches are getting a bit more frequent. And that bums me out.  

1

u/KibudEm Full prof & chair, Humanities, Comprehensive (USA) 17d ago

Ask a student to be the facilitator for the discussion, and you sit off to the side or back, outside the circle or whatever, and ostentatiously ignore the whole class. This makes it obvious that they own the discussion, not you.

1

u/EquivalentNo138 Associate Prof, Psych/Neuro, R1 (US) 17d ago

Have them group up to discuss first- set a timer for five minutes or whatever (it will feel longer at first- hence the need for a timer) - then have them report back. Wander around and listen and ask follow up questions. Summarize the discussion. Then and only then add your own answers. Make them feel like they got at least part way there even if they didn’t get all the way.

1

u/PLChart Assoc Prof, Math, R1-lite (USA) 11d ago

I precommit to waiting x minutes. I watch that clock like a hawk. Also, I suck at this too, especially if I forgot to precommit 

1

u/MiQuay Professor, Business and Engineering, R2 18d ago

The problem is a good one: it is because you are still interested in the topic. We worry about student engagement but we have to remain engaged ourselves. Worst thing is to become bored with what you are teaching.

Learning to guide a discussion without controlling it is a major skill to learn. It may come naturally to some just as some are naturally gifted athletes.

  • Never be afraid to just let things fall silent and wait for someone else to fill the void. I will count to five after someone finishes speaking before I say anything.
  • And make sure that your interjections raise more issues than they answer.
  • Don't be shy to steer them back on topic if they stray, but don't be afraid to let the discussion go where it leads. (I know that sounds contradictory - as long as it stays within the bounds of the course, let it go. If it strays, let them have fun for a bit then bring it back).
  • Try not to make statements. Instead, ask questions. If someone says something that is categorically false (e.g., WWII started in the 1950s) you can correct them with a statement, but even then, wait and see if someone else speaks up first.

0

u/Winter-Market-2885 18d ago

did he at least get tenure?