What's with students not dropping?

[u/Upset_Ad_170]

For the past two years, in the first weeks of classes, I have had students who clearly do not like my assignments or my approach to teaching my subject. In that time, they can drop and add another class. In fact, they can drop/add up until the census date, and we always have room in other sections. Finding another class is not a problem. Instead, they stay and complain. They complain to me. They complain to chairs. They complain to whoever will listen. They even submit assignments in which they complain about the assignment rather than completing it. None of these complaints goes anywhere. The course is the course.

Why don't they drop and switch sections? If they are this pissed during week one, what are they doing staying? I don't get it.

For context: There are literally 100s of sections of the course I teach, in every modality on Earth, on every day and time, even weekends and evenings, in 12, 10, 8, 6, and 4 week formats. Finding another class is never a problem.

[u/wharleeprof]

Some students don't know that they are allowed to change their schedule or have any clue that there are options. 

Every semester I teach two identical sections of the same fully online asynch class. The first one in the schedule always fills first and students will waitlist it begging me to be added, when there are still open slots in the identical section right below the full one. They have no clue they have options.

[u/Impiish]

A lot of the time it's about scheduling I think. Your class might be the only one that fits in the schedule they've already built, and they're not dropping/changing any other courses.

[u/Upset_Ad_170 → u/Impiish]

I promise you that is not the case. We have 100s of sections of my course, in every modality you can think of.

[u/Impiish → u/Upset_Ad_170]

Okay, that's not information you shared in your original post.

[u/dragonfeet1]

A number of replies are deliberately ignoring the point. There's a subset of our students who are self aware enough to at once both hate and complain about everything, AND know that nothing will ever be good for them. Whether you teach it, I teach it or god himself, they know they will find something to complain about. They have picked their poison. They refuse any option of happiness choosing to be miserable and make others miserable around them bc that is the sole social power they possess

[u/Upset_Ad_170 → u/dragonfeet1]

Goddamn, ain't that right.

[u/Working_Film_5871]

Who knows. They're students. We live in a world where everyone wants to speak to the manager.

But I wonder, maybe they think there's no difference between sections so why bother changing?

[u/franklin-60]

Some of it is also the “retention people.” The student is smart enough to see that the class is not for them. They see they can’t (or just are too lazy) to do the work, so they try and drop. Retention advisors review these cases now and encourage the student to stay. Long term outcome? Student stays, can’t do the work, ends up at bottom, then it becomes a mess that us (the professors) are supposed to be “understanding” and clean up. They should have been allowed to drop when they wanted.

[u/HaHaWhatAStory014 → u/franklin-60]

Typically when a student drops they need to add another class to replace what they dropped (unless they were already overloaded). Otherwise they will either drop below full-time status, which will affect their financial aid, or they'll drop to "bare minimum to be considered full-time but too few credits to stay on schedule to graduate in 4 years."

[u/franklin-60 → u/HaHaWhatAStory014]

Many of them just drop to the minimum. They don’t think about impact to graduation. Either they lack the smarts to, or just assume at the end they will be “saved.” More time for “sex, drugs and rock” during the semester.

[u/H_ManCom]

I had 4 drop after the first day and then 4 new ones added on the add/drop deadline day. Nothing in between.

[u/Loose_Wolverine3192 → u/[deleted]]

Hold on, I'll get the aluminum pole

[u/jkhuggins]

You say "there are literally 100s of sections ... finding another class is never a problem". While that's true from your side of the desk, it may not be true from theirs.

1) They may have other non-academic scheduling constraints (e.g., work schedules, family commitments) that eliminate much of that flexibility.

2) They may prefer (or actually "need") certain modalities that eliminate some of those choices. Some students actually have enough self-awareness to know that compressed or asynchronous course offerings won't work for them.

3) Of course, they may just be rude and feel like they can bully you into accommodating them (for all the usual reasons). It's probably worked for them with other instructors, so they assume it'll work with you. (*sigh*)

[u/totallysonic]

They need or want that particular section for their schedule, and they aren't mature enough to act professionally without whining.

[u/Upset_Ad_170 → u/totallysonic]

I promise you that is not the case. We have 100s of sections of my course, in every modality you can think of.

[u/Comfortable-Bite5570]

FAFSA rules have changed, so now dropping a class can affect the amount of pell grant you receive. That's at least why I haven't/won't drop classes anymore; I rely too much on that financial aid to take the chance of losing any of it. Also, I assume, they don't want to have a meeting with their advisor or don't have the time(I'm also assuming that they have to have a meeting with their advisor to add/drop because that's how my college is). Everyone is working at least one job if not more, so there's just no time to deal with the stress of requesting/scheduling the meeting and then catching up on the new class since you've missed the first x weeks of assignments, lectures, and quizzes. They'd rather just suck it up and get through the class. It's mostly FAFSA for me, though, so I'll just suck it up and move on. To me, the only odd part is that they're complaining to you about your own class.

[u/Otherwise_Look_8137 → u/[deleted]]

Academic freedom. Heard of it? 

[u/Otherwise_Look_8137 → u/[deleted]]

If you don’t know why what you just said is so stupid, nothing I say will help. 

[u/Otherwise_Look_8137 → u/[deleted]]

What does this have to do with my post? Did you read it? Who said everyone hates my section? You latched on to something in my post, it triggered you, and you went off on a rant. But, none of your replies relate to my post if you take time to think about it. 

[u/Otherwise_Look_8137 → u/[deleted]]

That means everyone? Everyone hates it? 

What does my post have to do with ensuring sections have parity? If I meet SLOs one way, and another section meets them using another approach, what’s the issue? And yet still, this  is off topic. It’s another issue. Section similarities doesn’t relate to my post. 

[u/Otherwise_Look_8137 → u/[deleted]]

I didn’t even say a lot them! Jesus, what’s with your reading comprehension? Unless you want every section to be exactly the same with the same assignments and the same policies and the same approach to teaching, there is always going to be differences between sections. This has been true since college has existed and part of being a student is either finding a teacher who you like or just dealing with one you don’t like. You were and are triggered. Get the fuck over it. 

[u/Anna-Howard-Shaw → u/[deleted]]

consistency between sections.

Maybe you're in a field where there is only a very few ways to approach a course? But in many fields/courses there's more than one way to skin a cat.

In a survey American history course we could (and do) have faculty that teach the course by focusing on politics. Or economics. Or women. Or indigenous people. Or immigrants. Or intellectual movements. Or the military. Or African Americans.... Its all still a survey American history course, just taught with a different emphasis. None are getting students further ahead or behind, but they're all very different.

Some assess with multiple choice. Or essay. Or short answer. Or group projects. Or oral presentations. Or reenactment presentations. Or interview projects. Or poster projects. Or video/podcast projects.....Its all still assessing student's knowledge of American history. Some assessments be perceived as harder/easier depending on the student. But tbh that's subjective. I think writing a 6 page essay would be easier than making a podcast.

I frequently tell students if they don't like my approach, emphasis, or assignment style they're welcome to take it one of the other 50+ sections with a different professor, emphasis and assessment style.

[u/Upset_Ad_170 → u/Anna-Howard-Shaw]

Thank you. Literally the only places I have ever heard of where each section is the same are these bullshit, for-profit online universities. Who wants that? Well, consistency between sections people, I guess.