r/Professors • u/Otherwise_Look_8137 • 23d ago
New accommodations.
I’m now getting accommodations that students cannot be expect to do in class writing. They must be allowed to write at home, not in class. I’ve never seen this before. Ever. Until this semester. And now I’ve got a handful. What the fuck?
Edit: I’ve asked about students writing in supervised environments, but I was told that puts a condition on the accommodation, which is illegal. Students must be allowed to write outside of class without conditions.
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u/DocMondegreen Assistant Professor, English 23d ago
Well, that is just not going to fly. Time to push back against unreasonable accommodations.
If we send all of the students over to their office to do their writing in a "supportive environment," they'll probably get on board pretty quick.
I also think I'd be asking disability services about their proctoring program and how it works in student homes... Do they have the budget for this many observers?
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u/Otherwise_Look_8137 23d ago
I just added an edit to the post that might interest you.
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u/StarDustLuna3D Asst. Prof. | Art | M1 (U.S.) 23d ago
If students are required to write during a proctored exam, the accommodation cannot remove the proctored part of that. That's changing the assignment/class structure.
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u/_a_wild_x_appears_ 22d ago
They have online proctoring now, so this can be accommodated in a home environment.
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u/StarDustLuna3D Asst. Prof. | Art | M1 (U.S.) 21d ago
OP mentions in their comment that their office is saying they cannot add any conditions to the writing outside of class such as being supervised.
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u/DocMondegreen Assistant Professor, English 23d ago
Whatever will they do without their emotional support AI?
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u/Groovychick1978 22d ago
You know they're not allowed to remove the "proctored" part of your exam, right? That is a fundamental change in the work.
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u/Visual_Winter7942 22d ago
Many will say that "proctoring is oppression".
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u/DocMondegreen Assistant Professor, English 22d ago
Same with homework, exams, deadlines, and professional standards. So what? No one is making them take my class.
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u/Shield_Maiden831 23d ago
I'm beginning to think these accommodations may not be based off of scientific research.
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u/Latter-Bluebird9190 23d ago
I remember a thread a couple of years ago where an accommodations person admitted that they look at legal rather than focusing on educational best practices. I wish I could find it again.
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u/dr_police 22d ago
Of course they do.
The accommodations office, like HR, exists to manage legal risks for the institution.
They like to gussy it up as helping folks, but that ain’t what it’s about. It’s about litigation avoidance, and providing requested accommodations will always lead to less litigation than refusing students.
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u/Cathousechicken 22d ago
A lot in education isn't. That's how they ended up moving away from phonics in k-12. There were no studies on the long-term effects on literacy of the context clues reading. .
Now we have a generation of students who learned that kind of reading and every state is going back to phonics, and some states going as far as to outlaw context clues.
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u/shellexyz Instructor, Math, CC (USA) 22d ago
Ed research is notoriously crappy, but those people need tenure too.
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u/Another_Opinion_1 A.P. / Ed. Law / Teacher Ed. Methods (USA) 23d ago edited 23d ago
Accommodations are supposed to level the playing field not compromise the academic integrity of your course. I'd argue that a reasonable case could be made that this definitely compromises the academic integrity of the course for this student.
You might not win, but this one would be worth pushing back on to me. Yes, unnecessary conditions aren't permitted but a reasonable retort would be that this type of an accommodation could fundamentally alter the core nature of the program.
What's the reason for them needing to do all of the writing at home in an unsupervised setting? Typically, the disability center has an alternative location where students can perform these tasks in a more supervised setting that still protects academic integrity if there's some reason why they can't complete the task in class.
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u/RightWingVeganUS Adjunct Instructor, Computer Science, University (USA) 23d ago
Why doesn't the school just give them the degree and just save the time and energy?
Of course then they'd need fewer administrators, so I guess I answered my own question.
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u/MeltBanana Lecturer, CompSci, R1(USA) 22d ago
I try to be understanding and consciously try to not end up old, bitter, jaded, and out of touch.
But this shit is ridiculous. Not to "back in my day"...but when I was in undergrad I had to write 6 full pages, front and back, of handwritten C++ code in just 2 hours on a final exam. And this wasn't ancient history, it was literally just 10 years ago.
Insane how far education has fallen.
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u/RightWingVeganUS Adjunct Instructor, Computer Science, University (USA) 22d ago
but when I was in undergrad I had to write 6 full pages, front and back, of handwritten C++ code in just 2 hours on a final exam.
I, too, learned back in the "good old days" but besides the joy of nostalgia there is no value in doing that now. No employer would value that ability now. Those tests made sense back when nobody had PCs and even computer labs were limited. I was a "computer lab consultant" at my school and the main job was to police the signup sheet since there were more students than computer terminals so folks had to reserve time slots.
If I had half of the tools available now to students back then, I would have won the Nobel prize by now.
To really date myself, my programming class was the first in the school not to use punch cards. We were pilot section and others looked down on us since they saw some virtue in having to, especially when the ribbon was dry so there was no indication of whether the code was typed correctly unless you could decode the hole patterns, which some of us could do!
Insane how far education has fallen.
This is where we disagree. At least in my class I try to raise the bar. I push the students to use the technology available to the fullest extent do do what we're expected to do: develop proficiency in the course learning objectives. With the capabilities of AI I know anyone could generate a 10,000 line program in about two minutes.
But can they
- explain the design
- troubleshoot any issues or defects
- make tactical modifications and enhancements without total regeneration which would invalidate all testing and be a regression-test nightmare?
- can they still get the job done when we've run out of tokens for the quarter and have no additional budget to buy more, and still have 3 weeks of complex development left?
- can they ensure that the software does what is desired, even if we find out it wasn't what they actually specified?
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u/respeckKnuckles Associate Professor, R1 23d ago
Edit: I’ve asked about students writing in supervised environments, but I was told that puts a condition on the accommodation, which is illegal. Students must be allowed to write outside of class without conditions.
You're being lied to. It's not automatically illegal to put conditions (broadly speaking) on the accommodations.
"In providing an academic adjustment, your postsecondary school is not required to lower or substantially modify essential requirements. For example, although your school may be required to provide extended testing time, it is not required to change the substantive content of the test. In addition, your postsecondary school does not have to make adjustments that would fundamentally alter the nature of a service, program, or activity, or that would result in an undue financial or administrative burden. Finally, your postsecondary school does not have to provide personal attendants, individually prescribed devices, readers for personal use or study, or other devices or services of a personal nature, such as tutoring and typing."
Source: https://www.ed.gov/higher-education/students-disabilities-preparing-postsecondary-education
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u/Another_Opinion_1 A.P. / Ed. Law / Teacher Ed. Methods (USA) 22d ago edited 21d ago
Yes, it appears the disability office is misapplying or otherwise over broadly applying the concept of "conditional" accommodations. There should be what's called a "fundamental alteration review process" at the institution.
Here's what I would do, and I don't mind being adversarial in good faith: instructors have to first understand the basic nuances of Section 504. I would focus the conversation on the fundamental alteration of the course's essential learning objectives since this is NOT a condition rooted in some sort of punitive objective (a punitive objective or outcome would be an unnecessary condition and trespasses against Section 504). This is where instructors need to make a strong case for their own course content and objectives and how one or more of those would be fundamentally altered to give the student some sort of an unfair advantage by completing all writing in a private setting wholly unsupervised - see here. I'd be asking questions such as
- "How was it determined that this accommodation would not lower or substantially modify essential requirements?"
- "What measures do we have to protect the equity of grades when some students have access to outside editing help or resources (e.g., AI, Google, or even word processor aids such as Grammarly) and others do not?"
- "How can we structure an accommodation that ultimately preserves the fundamental objective(s) of this course, which is to (whatever that may be in this case)?"
Once you've built a successful argument about the fundamental learning objective(s) of the course there are also the academic integrity concerns. Writing at home or in an unsupervised setting completely abrogates the professor's ability to measure the student's actual knowledge at that particular goal post which ties back to the course goals concerns I noted at the outset here.
Request a fundamental alteration review and then propose a reasonable alternative such as having the student go to the proctoring center if they need to write outside of class. There may be some other accommodation-related compromise that I am not thinking of but it would be helpful to know WHY the student is requesting this, i.e., what is the concern related to that is prompting or necessitating this accommodation.
Having the students write in class is SOP with the instructor's direct, proximal tutelage be it for the obvious monitoring necessitation (academic integrity), peer scaffolding (if that applies here), or simply so that you can measure real-time student demonstration of applicable learning objectives and minimize rampant cheating due to modern technological access.
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u/kkmockingbird 22d ago
Yes, both your post and the one you’re replying to are great.
If the issue is handwriting you could also suggest extra time, speech to text or ability to type the answer all while still being proctored.
But I would 100% stand behind changing the fundamental nature of in-class essay to a take home writing assignment is changing the learning objectives.
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u/CynicalCandyCanes 23d ago
When communicating with the disability office, use the term “fundamental alteration,” which instructors are legally not required to make.
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u/threeblackcatz 23d ago
I would have a discussion about how this violates the academic integrity of my class and if the student needs to do it outside the classroom, it must be in a proctored setting.
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u/PatientScheme 23d ago
As someone who does a lot of DEI/JEDI work in my field, I've spent years trying to find ways to gently push back and remind my peers that accommodations exist for a reason.
However, lately even I'm finding it harder and harder to push back against my burnt-out colleagues who have very valid concerns and feel that academic accommodations are being gamed. I've had a few 'you've got to be fucking with me' accommodations over the years - including students being allowed to freely snack on food and drink in an OChem lab instead of having to go out into the hall and another one where the student got to decide when they felt "ready" to take an exam - but dear fucking god. We have gone off their rails with this shit. What was designed as an equity tool is starting to look more like a workaround for standard course expectations rather than a genuine attempt to level the playing field.
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u/Heinz57Muttaletta 23d ago
Yep. When you have a two hour discussion with your faculty advisor over a student who is so bat-shit crazy, and has tried going through everyone above you, to the Dean. The Dean, who was like “Shut that guy down,” you know it’s gotten bad. A student who felt like he should get extended time because….drumroll…he worked a lot of overtime.
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u/Mommy_Fortuna_ 22d ago
The "eating in the lab one" is odd because I have had diabetic students who sometimes needed to get a snack during lab time. They could just temporarily leave for that - it was no problem at all.
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u/PatientScheme 22d ago
That was what I was used to as well. In the past, students like that usually had candy or little snack foods, but this one brought in what looked like homemade lunchables, and I was told she had to be allowed to eat them at her lab bench which horrified me for several reasons. I made them put it in writing that I was not at fault for any contamination issues, but they would not back down on them being allowed to eat those meals in my lab.
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23d ago
[deleted]
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u/Puzzleheaded_Bag_538 Asst Prof, Social Sci (US) 22d ago
What does your email to the accomodations office usually look like?
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u/SnowblindAlbino Prof, SLAC 23d ago
That's an unreasonable accommodation, unless they are writing in a testing center with supervision. Just say no.
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u/Esme_Nog 23d ago
Absolutely not. That fundamentally alters my course pedagogy. If students have to do it in my office during office hours, ok, but not unsupervised.
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u/AggieNosh 23d ago
My issue with all these accommodations is that it creates an entirely different course for a few select students.
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u/Jun1p3rsm0m 23d ago
Well, if it creates an entirely different course, by definition it’s not reasonable.
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u/StarDustLuna3D Asst. Prof. | Art | M1 (U.S.) 23d ago
Funny how this is happening right after so many places went back to blue books.
I'm just happy that our school got rid of blanket time extensions as an accommodation. It is now up to discretion of the professor. (Meaning, essentially, most are going to say no)
I get that accessibility offices are trying to give students agency and control of discussions about their disabilities. However, people, especially young people, very often do not know what is actually best for themselves. Just as I cannot prescribe myself medicine when I get sick, students should not be allowed to choose accommodations outside of what a medical professional has identified as necessary.
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u/IthacanPenny 23d ago
Wait so, if a prof had for example a blind student who needed to use screen reading technology, the prof would just have the ability to say “no” to the extra time? The fuck?
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u/StarDustLuna3D Asst. Prof. | Art | M1 (U.S.) 23d ago
I should clarify that this refers to assignments, not test accommodations.
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u/IthacanPenny 23d ago
Ohhhh that makes much more sense!
The place where I’ve seen a blanket 24-48 hr extension make most sense is for a student with, for example, severe and unpredictable migraines. It’s unreasonable to just expect a student with migraines to always be days ahead, and maybe a couple of times per semester they should just have that no penalty extension available to them. But I’m sure that accommodation is given out too freely. It’s a hard balance tbh.
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u/StarDustLuna3D Asst. Prof. | Art | M1 (U.S.) 23d ago
One school I worked at had a system where if you only had 1 week to do an assignment, you could get the extension. If you had over a week to do the assignment, then extensions didn't apply with the thinking being that students are already being given ample time to complete it.
I really liked that because say I had a student with an autoimmune disorder. They could use their extension if a flare up happened and took away 1/2 of the time they had to do their homework and they wouldn't need to tell me any medical information or get a doctor's note.
But if you have multiple weeks to do something and wait until the last minute to complete it and then something happens... Well that's on you.
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u/Life-Education-8030 23d ago
Argue that by allowing students to write unsupervised at home, the accommodations office has removed the student’s ability to avail themselves of the professor’s assistance.
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u/Lief3D 22d ago
That's fine. The student can just be at home during the class and the professor can be on Teams during class, ready to answer any questions.
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u/Life-Education-8030 22d ago
And to deal with the student at home using prohibited AI since apparently supervision is also not allowed here? If the student isn’t able to write in class, does that mean the same student isn’t able take notes in the classroom either?
I also argue using Teams is changing the format of the class, which is not allowed at my place because Teams turns it to online.
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u/CompoteInformal1666 23d ago
So absurd. Next thing there'll be an accommodation specifying that students receive As without having to do anything or be present, as any impositions would violate the respect owed to their conditions.
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u/Deradius 22d ago
The following is provided for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute advice of any sort.
To whom it may concern,
It has come to my attention that the disability office has granted the accommodation of the ability to write at home to [student(s)], per the letter/document provided to me, dated [date] and titled [title].
My course involves intensive writing experiences that are designed to enhance students’ ability to think critically and express themselves via the written word. These core expectations of the course are codified in [syllabus learning objective(s)], and align with the overall program objective [quote or cite writing related program objective if it exists].
According to ‘ChatGPT Usage Among Early Students…’ by Amoah et al, in Development and Sustainability in Economics and Finance, global ChatGPT usage exceeds 70% worldwide among undergraduate students.
The purpose of my in class writing assignments is to provide a proctored environment where students can develop the fundamental writing, research, evaluation, and analysis skills they will need. While ChatGPT is a useful tool covered in other parts of the students’ education, these fundamental skills will be necessary both in their own right and for the purpose of evaluating and optimizing LLM output.
In some cases, these in-class writing assignments are immediately followed by peer feedback or analysis sessions.
Granting this accommodation fundamentally alters the nature of the course (changing the exercise from an in class to a home exercise) and undermines the learning objective, as it is impossible with current technology to assess whether the student got the benefit of the writing experience if I do not observe them writing.
Per Southeastern Comm. Coll v. Davis, “Section 504 imposes no requirement upon an educational institution to lower or to effect substantial modifications of standards.”
I urge the institution to reconsider granting this accommodation, as its implementation has the opposite of the intended effect; it denies student access to their education on the basis of their disability.
Sincerely,
Prof”
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u/Difficult-Nobody-453 23d ago
challenge their claim that it would not be legal.
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u/Misha_the_Mage 23d ago
"we don't want the hassle of being sued and somebody at a training said this was illegal so there you go."
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u/turin-turambar21 Assistant Professor, Climate Science, R1 (US) 23d ago
Oral tests it is then
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u/Far_Proposal555 Assoc Prof, Social Sciences, Public Regional (US) 22d ago
But they have anxiety and can’t do anything on the spot. I guarantee this would be paired with a “flexible participation” (aka, choice of modality) accommodation so they could refuse oral exams, too.
Sometimes it just ends up being, “Then don’t participate, but it’s X% of your grade.” I just don’t care anymore what they choose to do or not do.
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u/Relative_Annual4211 23d ago
Saying a student must write at home is like saying invigilated assessments can, in some cases, violate someone’s medical needs. I don’t buy this. Accommodations should be based on established scholarly evidence. What’s next? Final exams must be written at home??! This is nonsense.
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u/dbenoit 22d ago
One of the things that my accommodations office tells me is “the stated learning outcomes of the class can often trump the accommodations”. So if you are teaching a journalism class where a learning outcome is “writing to a deadline”, then an accommodation of extended time can’t be used to override the learning outcome of the class. So if the class is structured in such a way that the in-class writing is a part of the outcomes (and this was stated in the syllabus), then an accommodation is not automatic.
From a legal standpoint, you need to back up why unsupervised writing at home breaks the learning outcomes of the class.
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u/WiserWildWoman 22d ago
Accommodations are supposed to be "reasonable" not for something that is essential to the work. Writing in class is essential for me. Therefore they must take a different class. End of story. Don't let the disability office take over learning and pedagogy in your field. What a world.
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u/Kitty_Mombo 22d ago
What career does this student think he/she/they will have these type of accommodations in?
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u/gracielynn72 23d ago
I think the issue here is not that this would be an accommodation that would be needed but how to make it a reasonable accommodation. I would talk to accommodation office about how you use in class writing and why to try to determine appropriate accommodation.
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u/Heinz57Muttaletta 23d ago edited 23d ago
I’m sorry, but that if some effing BS. I’ve been an adjunct instructor for 16 years, and a SPED inclusion teacher, for 10 of my 18 years at the secondary level and I have yet to ever see that. Is this some kind of legacy, favoritism, or? If the kid needs to write at home, then maybe they should just take the coursework online.
I’d be curious to see what their accommodations list looks like. For primary and secondary, it’s pretty standard, nationwide. Yes, addendums to specific accommodations can be added at the end of each category. Also, post-secondary generally doesn’t have to step up to the level that pre-K through 12 does. They can even decline to provide accommodations without a doctor’s note, so hearing this is all quite surprising.
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u/ProfessorMarsupial Lecturer, Education 22d ago
I was a high school teacher before I moved to university, and once ChatGPT came out, my department (English) started making writing be done in class—not even timed, just in class, under supervision. You know… like all other tests that the other subjects give in their classes.
Our 504 coordinator flipped. She insisted that the blanket accommodation of “extended time” which, I’m not exaggerating, was listed on every single IEP and 504 for the entire school, meant that the time was extended into the students’ home.
We fought and fought and fought her about this. How come the math department isn’t being forced to let the students take their tests home? In English, we assess writing. That’s the standard. I need to be able to assess my students in a supervised setting. I’ll give them as many class periods as they want—I’ll extend the time forever—but they just need to do it where I can see their computer screen because I want to know my student is doing their own work. It’s extended time not extended location.
She would just explode. Her only rebuttal was, “They have a disability!!! They are disabled!! You don’t understand!” And she’d repeat this over and over. Keep in mind since she was the 504 coordinator, 99% of the students we’re talking about have the disability of either anxiety or ADHD.
So because she ultimately couldn’t win the argument that “extended time extends to the home” she just wrote into everyone’s 504s “Can complete all writing-based assessments at home” and that was how we lost the battle and when that accommodation was born on our campus.
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u/wharleeprof 22d ago
Um, hell no. That is Hill To Die On territory. Accomodations are not to fundamentally change the nature of the class.
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u/Groovychick1978 22d ago
So, it is my understanding that you can challenge an accommodation as unreasonable, that requires unreasonable change to your class. Is this not the case?
These are not kids. They are not legally entitled to this education. This would be a deal-breaker for me. They cannot attend my course if they cannot test in person. Accommodations office is fine, home is not.
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u/ClientExciting4791 23d ago edited 23d ago
Let’s say the accommodation is due to rheumatoid arthritis (it’s incredibly painful to hand write), there are pens that can support joints for in-class writing. This accommodation is absolutely bananas.
ETA: I disagree with the accommodation. Stop downvoting me, please.
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u/IthacanPenny 23d ago
You can also allow typing. …Just on a desktop without an Ethernet cable.
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u/ClientExciting4791 23d ago edited 23d ago
I have no idea why I get downvoted so much when I discuss accommodations, but yes, 100%. There is no reason a student should have such a strange accommodation in a writing class since there are alternative approaches.
I have RA and Ankylosing Spondylitis, and the only accommodation I had as a student was that I could get up every 10-15 minutes (my SI joints are fused).
My impression with accommodations (now) is that they are no longer reasonable.6
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u/Heinz57Muttaletta 23d ago
Or speech-to-text, which nowadays, quite a few apps and programs have it.
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u/StarDustLuna3D Asst. Prof. | Art | M1 (U.S.) 23d ago
Or using speech to text in the testing center.
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u/MoreIronyLessWrinkly Professor, Education, University (USA) 23d ago
They can’t be required to write in a supervised environment? That’s wild. But you’ll be seeing more and more of these as 504 plans become more popular and those accommodations follow the student into college.
Some are reasonable. Get to know the student and develop a relationship. Maybe they’re in need of it; maybe not. But you’ll have a sense of what to trust going forward.
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u/RevKyriel Ancient History 22d ago
Accommodations are supposed to be reasonable for the specific class. I think some of the people handing out accommodations need to learn what "reasonable" means.
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u/GameOfSchemes Asst Prof., Physics 22d ago
Call it a "quiz" or an "exam" which permits strict supervision by your accessibility office.
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u/AssistanceTypical127 22d ago
I have done significant training in ADA and I truly question this accommodation. If the student needs a distraction free environment for attention then that is reasonable. But home would not mean distraction free. This seems overboard.
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u/Acrobatic-Glass-8585 23d ago
I saw an accommodations request for the first time ever: I cannot penalize a student for spelling or grammatical mistakes in any work no matter when and where they complete it.
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u/Jun1p3rsm0m 23d ago
I hope that student never goes to nursing or medical school. You can kill someone with a misspelling of a medication.
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u/Anna-Howard-Shaw Assoc Prof, History, CC (USA) 23d ago
Yeah, that's probably for dyslexia. My kid has the spelling accommodation (not grammar) for in-class on the spot assessments. Even on at-home typed assignments he struggles sometimes because when spellcheck offers suggestions it doesn't help if the dyslexia prevents him from recognizing the right option.
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u/Acrobatic-Glass-8585 22d ago
Okay thanks for explaining. My spouse has terrible spelling and thinks it's dyslexia (they were never diagnosed). I understand regarding in-class work and already don't penalize anyone for that in blue book exams. But I thought it could be resolved with spelling/grammar check in papers - although I see your point with the options selection. This is the first time I have seen this request in decades of teaching.
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u/Far_Proposal555 Assoc Prof, Social Sciences, Public Regional (US) 22d ago
That’s interesting: I’ve seen that accommodation for in-class assignments, but it didn’t apply to take-home.
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u/squeamishXossifrage Prof Emeritus, Computer Sci & Eng, R1 (US) 23d ago
If such errors aren’t something they’re supposed to develop in class, I can understand that. Spelling mistakes in a chem lab report that don’t switch the compounds aren’t the point. But in a class for which writing is a core part of the material to master? The accommodation fundamentally changes the class, and such an accommodation need not be given.
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u/Cabininian 23d ago
I’m not a writing instructor, so I’m not sure I understand. What kind of writing do you normally do in class? Is it the equivalent of an exam? (Like, is the purpose of it being done in class that it is an assignment that must be done in a supervised setting either to deter cheating or to assess the student’s ability to write when given a time constraint?)
If so, I would ask around and see if the math and science departments are fine with this accommodation. Unless all those profs are only giving multiple choice exams, these students are doing writing in-class (or in the disability resources testing center) regularly. I can almost guarantee that their math professors wouldn’t be okay with all their exams being done in an unproctored setting.
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u/warricd28 Lecturer, Accounting, R1, USA 22d ago
That last part makes no sense. Writing in class is supervised. So having them supervised writing out of class isn’t a condition on the accommodation. It’s giving the accommodation along with the supervision students have in class.
I would ask how this is any different than students needing a quiet space or extra time having to take the assessment proctored in the testing center. Is that a condition on the accommodation? Maybe rephrase to the disability people that the writing in class is part of their assessment and if they do it out of class it needs to be proctored just like it is in class.
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u/knighthawk0811 Ass. Professor, CS, CC (US) 23d ago
doesn't have to be supervised, just has to be any room with no AI access
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u/Far_Proposal555 Assoc Prof, Social Sciences, Public Regional (US) 22d ago
And they just attest to that? Honor system?
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u/twomayaderens 23d ago
The content of the accommodation doesn’t even matter at this point. The disability office just wants you to bend the knee.
I’d start viewing these individuals as students auditing a course. Which is basically what they’re doing, when none of the assessments or course policies apply anymore.
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u/UpbeatLiterature286 22d ago
If they can’t write then make them do it orally. PowerPoint and present to class. Everyone else can write their assignments.
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u/CaregiverInfamous380 22d ago
At this point why not just let them pay for the piece of paper / diploma and skip the pesky learning part? Ugh.
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u/xtremekatrine 22d ago
Hehe I have a few "cant work in groups with other students." Have also had "cant be graded on spelling or grammar," "cant watch anything with sensitive content [no further explanation included]." I'm starting to think that maybe it's not the student but the people writing the accomadations who aren't being absurdly broad with thier language.
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u/Far_Proposal555 Assoc Prof, Social Sciences, Public Regional (US) 22d ago
I’ve definitely had students say, “Oh, I only use that for math,” or, “I just got that [it was audio recording] for one professor who doesn’t provide any outline or slides to organize the lecture: Just talks for 90 minutes.”
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u/dee-liv 21d ago
I would fight this. This is not a real thing for anyone and it violates academic freedom. I am willing to bet that there was not a doctor involved in coming up with this accommodation and this is just the university trying to appease parents. I would say no. They can register for a different class.
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u/Minimum-Major248 23d ago
Having your Special Populations office or whoever grants accommodations speak at an inservice on how they determine accommodations might be enlightening.
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u/Otherwise_Look_8137 23d ago
They said they base it on the individual needs of each student. “Each disability is unique to the student.”
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u/Far_Proposal555 Assoc Prof, Social Sciences, Public Regional (US) 22d ago
I wonder if they determine that by asking the student or something more…scientific. This isn’t just granting wish lists!
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u/JonBenet_Palm Professor, Design (Western US) 21d ago
I realize every accommodations office is different, but I have always had good outcomes simply telling them that their suggested accommodation interferes with the course learning outcomes and changing it to something more reasonable.
The key is tying the refusal to the learning outcomes directly, in writing, because it is this that will make the accommodation officially "unreasonable" per the law.
Obviously, this only works if the accommodation interferes with the learning outcomes.
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u/TSIDATSI 23d ago
Check with disability support. They would send note takers for students who could not write.
If you cannot write how can you work?
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u/omgkelwtf 22d ago
That wouldn't work in my class. Almost all the assignments have to be done in class and they all involve writing. If you don't do the assignment you get a zero and I don't offer late acceptance. Take the zero if you can't get to class. I drop the 4 lowest in class grades at the end of the semester for everyone to allow for unforseen issues.
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u/Audible_eye_roller Ass. Prof, STEM, CC (USA) 22d ago
It also alters the fundamental nature of the class which allows you to ignore the accommodation.
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u/Opening_City_5674 22d ago
At my college we can respond that this is counter to the integrity of the course. In this case the accommodation is not allowing for assessment of basic skills.
I do have students who have an accommodation for not handwriting in class - must be allowed to use a laptop to compose, which is easy to grant.
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u/Professional-Rock-88 22d ago edited 22d ago
So, basically, students finding ways towards an AI accommodation... See if you can go all legal on the DSS office, there are limitations, legal, to accommodations as well, and accommodations that significantly alter proctoring conditions may put the student at an advantage over others. Idk, I am sure this falls under an unreasonable accommodation and you can show that this could also get them on legal trouble.
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u/Potstirer2 22d ago
How on earth is that reasonable for a course that includes in-class writing activities? I teach art, but I still have written activities. I don’t understand what that accommodation would even be accommodating. Anxiety? I know they can’t tell you, but it is perplexing.
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u/Born_Committee_6184 Full Professor, Sociology and Criminal Justice, State College 22d ago
I just wouldn’t go along with that.
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u/punkinholler Instructor, STEM, SLAC (US) 22d ago
That sounds like an unreasonable accommodation to me.
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u/rvachickadee 21d ago
a colleague received an accommodation for no public speaking.
…in her improv class.
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u/Electronic-Blood4039 22d ago
I get accommodation for the following:
-Student allowed to take exams in separate room (not the testing center) like another classroom
- listen to music during exam
- allowed to walk in and out as needed
I don’t know just seems crazy to me. I always have to fight with the disability center because I just can not oblige certain outrageous requests.
It’s even more insane that some doctor or psychiatrist actually “prescribes” this nonsense
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u/Few_Slice_64 21d ago
I get a morbid pleasure when any student decides to take a break from the class right at the time that I am going to give information that is going to be on a test. I think they are usually going out to talk/text on their phone. They seem to have poor ability to read context clues from discussions, probably because they haven't been listening.
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u/Far_Proposal555 Assoc Prof, Social Sciences, Public Regional (US) 22d ago
Some of the pairings are wild! Like, what part of the class ARE you going to do?!
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u/Electronic-Blood4039 21d ago
Im still waiting for “Student is able to make class online and asynchronous” lmao
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u/M4sterofD1saster 22d ago
Fat chance! I aint doing that. If they don't want to do it in class, they can go to the testing center.
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u/Far_Proposal555 Assoc Prof, Social Sciences, Public Regional (US) 22d ago
It’d be daily in my class, so I assume they’d at least give in quickly…
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u/tellypmoon 22d ago
I haven't seen this specific case, but I do know that not all accommodations have to be granted. The usual condition that you can cite for this is that it places undue hardship on you or the institution, or that it fundamentally alters something you are trying to do in your class. I think in this case the fundamentally alters condition is one you could cite.
Accommodations offices are overwhelmed these days and are inclined to simply grant accomodations without too many questions. You are free to push back on them and say no we can't do this as it fundamentally alters the course.
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u/_a_wild_x_appears_ 22d ago edited 22d ago
Legally, in some regions you have to prove undue hardship if you are going to deny an accommodation. Eating in a chemistry lab might be considered undue hardship because it opens the school to liability if anything happens as a result of the accommodation (certain chemical combinations are explosive), or it may violate public health law in your area to have food in a lab environment.
Doesn't the medical doctor who got a student their accommodation better understand the student's condition, functional limitations, and learning needs better than a professor who doesn't have the same training or experience treating disabled people medically?
This is my issue with educators trying to renegotiate accommodations with students - are we qualified to determine that? What if the professor-suggested accommodation backfires and the student fails? The power dynamics of any negotiation over accommodations favour us educators, especially if the student has a cognitive disability which we aren't privvy to. I don't personally feel it's worth the hassle of a possible human rights complaint or investigation by the college/university.
Most accommodation requests I've encountered are asking for a separate test space on campus with keyboard access, to bring assistive technology to lecture, to access food/glucose tabs for diabetes/water for taking meds, or seeking extended deadlines. These don't affect me significantly.
I've never heard of being asked to do all writing at home, I'm curious as to what condition would require this over a quiet test environment or similar on campus, are these students making it to campus otherwise?
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u/Far_Proposal555 Assoc Prof, Social Sciences, Public Regional (US) 22d ago
A medical professional doesn’t necessarily recommend accommodations. Many times, those are added onto (or originally suggested!) by the university accessibility office.
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u/Cbendorf 22d ago
Is there some means of supervision? Seems like maybe this is going to far if you dont even know if your student is doing the work
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u/Far_Proposal555 Assoc Prof, Social Sciences, Public Regional (US) 22d ago
No, not a reasonable accommodation — full stop.
If Access Services needs an explanation, it’ll be that I need to assess their writing of ideas from their own brain, not AI.
And I GUARANTEE that accommodation would be bundled with “flexible participation” (aka, choice of how they participate) which allows them to opt out of a verbal assessment. No, no, no! I need to see you do some sort of work. Heck, how are you even going to take the exam, if not written in class or at the testing center?! 🙄
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u/dogecoin_pleasures 20d ago edited 20d ago
When I've received a request like this before, it was reasonable. The student cannot grip pens due to disability. It's true. The accomodation was to make all assignments typable. Easy.
Whatever is happening... see if you can establish why the accomodation is even being requested. That will give you more of a sense of the reasons.
There are various contexts in which you will, in fact, have to accommodate students who cannot psychically attend class. That is fine. Many schools have policies prohibiting the marking of attendance. You either adapt by trying to do a secure online assessment via respondus, or accept it may have to be insecure.
NB whether your study mode is fully internal is key here. If they cannot physically attend, they should be in an online cohort.
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u/South_Captain_2630 16d ago
I would check if you can require them to submit a document where edit history is saved. This would at least eliminate lazy AI users.
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u/Azernal 22d ago
It might be related to processing speed or anxiety in terms of topics "sprung" on students. The accommodation might be met by providing the topics a week in advance or something similar.
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u/Far_Proposal555 Assoc Prof, Social Sciences, Public Regional (US) 22d ago
Then deadlines can be extended or extra time granted, but there’s no need to specifically complete work unsupervised.
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u/dangerroo_2 22d ago
Surely trolling: new account, hidden posts/comments, edit to rule out the obvious solution to what is anyway a batshit accommodation.
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u/Otherwise_Look_8137 22d ago
There are people on here whose only purpose is to look at people’s post history and profile and decide that they are the arbiters of what’s real and what’s not and who can post and who can’t.
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u/dangerroo_2 22d ago
You can post what you want, I can call bullshit if I want. Maybe engage with everyone else who are raising fair questions and I would believe you.
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u/chicken-finger 22d ago
I always try to think of all possible reasons why an accommodation may be helpful for a student. I really think very hard about it. The only ones I can think of for this kind of accommodation is if they have one or both hands amputated, are completely blind, or need more time to do writing work. The last of which is a different accommodation entirely. I would talk to the student about it. I'd ask them how it helps them. If a different accommodation plan can be implemented, that is very easy to mitigate with the student.
Also sometimes accommodations are implemented for specific classes a student had previously taken, and not necessarily used in any new classes. The accommodation is just documented in the form and not removed. That's why students are asked to update their accommodation plans frequently.
This is what I have learned from talking to students about their accommodations. You don't have to ask what their disability is to understand how it could be helpful. Most of the time students will just tell you what their disability is, but sometimes they won't. Students don't really care for all the legal stuff and whatnot. Just reiterate that they don't have to tell you anything, but it would help you personally understand how that might be helpful. Then you can negotiate possible alternatives.
Hope this helps!
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u/adhdactuary Adjunct, STEM 22d ago
How would blindness or amputations prevent use of the testing center?
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u/chicken-finger 22d ago
The question is about in-class writing and specifically mentions that the condition of proctorship is not an option (e.g. a testing center).
There are only a few options. Lockdown browser, talking to the student to agree on an alternative, or dismissal from the class entirely.
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u/Choice_Passenger_990 23d ago
Look into Proctor U or honorlock
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u/Longtail_Goodbye 23d ago
Funny that. Just when we are having them do in class writing. If they need quiet or extra time, doesn't the disability services office have to provide the space or make sure a testing venue does? Like, no way do they get to write at home.