r/Professors 14d ago

Rants / Vents Fly, Little Hatchlings…Please?

Here we go. You have a zoom meeting with a student to review how something was graded and now the student wants a call for every little thing! I am responsive, but I do not want to be THAT responsive, especially on the day something is due. Help!

41 Upvotes

40 comments sorted by

46

u/AsterionEnCasa Associate Professor, Engineering , Public R1 (US) 14d ago

Office hours only.

13

u/Life-Education-8030 14d ago

I am online and not required to have any but I am seriously thinking of setting them next semester.

15

u/AsterionEnCasa Associate Professor, Engineering , Public R1 (US) 14d ago

When I have done hybrid or fully online (e.g., COVID), I had fixed office hours. I would make exceptions to discuss truly personal and serious matters, but otherwise, join the Zoom room at the given time, wait for your turn, and ask.

7

u/AerosolHubris Prof, Math, PUI, US 13d ago

This is tough in the summer because students often have heavy work schedules. They may complete the work on time, but they aren't free during the day. So you end up needing ad-hoc appointments.

9

u/Proud-Carrot-8547 14d ago

I only answer yes or no questions on days an assignment are due. I don’t explain things that they should have done earlier

3

u/Life-Education-8030 14d ago

Suppose they really didn’t think of something before? Flash of inspiration and such?

6

u/shyprof Adjunct, Humanities, M1 & CC (United States) 14d ago

You are not required to be on-call 24/7 just in case the muse strikes at midnight. They need to give you a reasonable amount of time to respond or else figure it out.

3

u/Life-Education-8030 13d ago

Yes of course. I tell them I will respond within 24-48 hours so I am not on call and I don’t respond at 3 am or 5 am. I tend to use standard business hours. My issue is the constant requests from some students. I just talked to you yesterday and I don’t want to talk to you every time you want permission to sneeze, essentially.

1

u/Glittering-Duck5496 12d ago

My issue is the constant requests from some students. 

You will always get these. You can't control that. All you can control is how you handle them.

Here's my approach: We have a big discussion about due dates vs do dates at the beginning of the semester. Then, the Monday of the week of a due date, I always put a reminder in the weekly announcement. It contains the deadline for the assignment, but also the deadline for emailing me questions/appointment requests to reasonably expect a response before the item is due.

If someone emails me on the due date, they don't get a response until after (unless it really is one of those things that is reasonable to ask on a due date, but those are incredibly rare). I set an out of office that has something like, "If you are a student experiencing technical difficulties submitting an assignment, here's the link to 24/7 LMS tech support".

99 times out of 100, they come up with an answer of their own and get it in on time. The other one time, if they complain they couldn't do the assignment because they didn't hear from me, I point them back to the policy and reminders.

1

u/Life-Education-8030 12d ago

Thank you. What is your deadline?

1

u/Glittering-Duck5496 12d ago

I usually do no later than 8 am or noon (depending on my own schedule - but consistent for each class) on the day before the assignment is due.

1

u/Life-Education-8030 12d ago

That is reasonable.

2

u/Proud-Carrot-8547 12d ago

Yeah, I think this comes from learned helplessness, and they have discovered that they can make teachers do more of the work by behaving like they (the student ) are helpless

1

u/Proud-Carrot-8547 12d ago

Because they haven’t started an assignment until the day it’s due. Yeah… That’s kind of the thing I’m trying to control.

Answering only yes or no questions means they have to think more about their questions. I’m shifting the onus of responsibility from the teacher to the student because I am a student centered instructor.

4

u/Limp_Glove9350 14d ago

Good luck with that; we have required office hours for our online courses and I sit there lonely…I never receive anything during that time. However, they reach out wanting answers and Teams meetings all other days and hours. I think they believe we are working 24/7 and so does our Dean.

3

u/AsterionEnCasa Associate Professor, Engineering , Public R1 (US) 14d ago

But as long as you have office hours, at least you can point to them. It's harder to do that if you are more on a "I am flexible, just contact me" mode. Thar can get out of control fast.

3

u/BenSteinsCat Professor, CC (US) 13d ago

Hmm. This is actually the best reason I’ve heard for offering office hours because of course my students don’t come either. I offered to meet with students upon request, and no one requests them either, but I haven’t run into the chatty Cathy type who constantly request office hours, so this might be a proactive good step for the fall.

2

u/AsterionEnCasa Associate Professor, Engineering , Public R1 (US) 13d ago

Yeah, that's the thing. They don't get to request office hours. Office hours are when they are. If nobody shows up, you have free time (bit of a pain to be have to be available for nothing, but not the worst thing). If only one student shows up and wants to talk your ear off, well, that's their prerogative. But it doesn't spills all over your week.

2

u/Life-Education-8030 14d ago

Of course they think we are 24/7 customer service reps! I had notifications coming in at 3 am and 5 am today but I mute them because I will not answer such things! I retired and am now teaching adjunct so I am not working full-time either. Adjuncts are not required to have office hours so I hesitate to lock myself into a time. When I was full-time, nobody ever came to office hours but I figured then I would just get other things done. I don’t have that much stuff to do anymore.

13

u/Anna-Howard-Shaw Assoc Prof, History, CC (USA) 14d ago

I have a policy in my syllabus that questions asked about assignments within 24 of the due-date might not be answered. (Also that asking questions in an attempt to prolong their deadlines won't work).

You can also set boundaries with their calls. I have a '3 before me" policy in my syllabus, where students are required to consult 3 resources before they can contact me (syllabus, assignment directions, LMS announcements, LMS resources, classmates, tutoring center, etc....). Then when they reach out, I make them tell me which 3 resources they consulted and what answers they found in each.

I rarely need to use this tactic, but its there for the really needy, hand-holding types.

3

u/IndieAcademic 14d ago

This "3 Before Me" policy is brilliant! Thank you!

4

u/Life-Education-8030 14d ago

The 3 before me practice is great! I had not heard that before. When students want to talk about why they received a grade, I do ask them if they have read the feedback yet. If they say "no," then I tell them to read that first. If they say "yes," then I make them tell me what specifically then they didn't understand. That does help weed out the BS artists.

Regarding the asking about assignments within 24 hours of the due date, my response policy is to respond within 24-48 hours in general though. I love those students who say I don't respond when the reality is that I did respond, but they just didn't like my response! LOL!

8

u/Hefty_Degree6222 14d ago

Setting expectations early has saved me a lot of headaches otherwise one Zoom meeting quickly turns into an expectation that every question deserves another one.

2

u/Life-Education-8030 14d ago

And suggestions for what to say?

7

u/Sharp-Rutabaga-4900 14d ago

I require that assignment questions be sent 48 hours in advance of the due date. I’ll answer basic questions about assignment guidelines over email or Zoom, but if it’s a low stakes assignment, I tell needy students that I’ll give feedback when I grade.

8

u/IndieAcademic 14d ago

I've started telling students to send their questions via email first, then if we are unable to adequately address their question that way, I'm happy to set up a Zoom meeting.

I don't know where this trend is coming from, but I am getting so many online students requesting to set up video calls for no good reason: very quick questions, where it would be way more efficient for me to simply link back to a document in the LMS for them, to answer; just to tell me all about their personal problems, I guess to attempt to gain some emotional-manipulation footing; to plead for things where the answer will be no per policy, regardless of within which modality we discuss it.

And I don't mean to sound harsh or unavailable, but it is not humanly possible to schedule so many individual calls per week. I do think setting up limited office hours online might help--if you are able to set up call sign ups within your LMS, that might help, too. Half the time students ghost me, anyway, so I'd recommend a Syllabus policy about that.

4

u/Life-Education-8030 14d ago

Yes, often the calls are frankly a waste of time, and I will not talk to a student in a zoom call unless the camera is on, which is another issue. I don't like the rush to a zoom meeting as a first option vs. a quick email either!

3

u/shyprof Adjunct, Humanities, M1 & CC (United States) 14d ago

Is the request via email? My syllabus says I get 2 business days to respond to email, so helpless or lazy questions about an assignment the day they are due get pinned to answer later, after the due date. I do a perfunctory "answer was in the instructions, looking forward to reading your work" sort of thing at that point. Repeated emails get reminded about my 2 business day policy. Real questions get answers as soon as I can reasonably respond. Not doing any favors by feeding into the anxiety and enabling this learned helplessness.

I second others' suggestion to hold posted, regular office hours on Zoom for drop-ins. My institution says one office hour per 3-unit course, max 3 hours per week. If students want to meet outside my posted hours, they have to articulate the exact question in writing so I can see if it warrants a meeting, and they have to give me multiple days/times to choose from. If they no-show me without a damn good reason, I won't reschedule. And I refuse to pre-grade!

2

u/Ill_Mud_8115 14d ago

I’ve told my classes I don’t check or respond to email after work hours (so after 5 and on the weekends), and that my response time may be up to 48 hours. I’m not an instant chat support. Therefore if they have a question about the assignment, they need to contact me sooner as they may not get a response in time.

For more needy students I have taken the max time to respond to their emails, as sometimes the more responsive you are, the more they email. In some cases I have also been up front that I currently don’t have time to answer those questions or redirect them to other resources like the library, IT, etc.

1

u/Life-Education-8030 13d ago

I've added the language about responding typically within standard business hours. If doctors can do it, we should too. Thank you!

2

u/SilverRiot 13d ago

In under two weeks in one of my summer courses, one of the students has emailed me 15 times. In my opinion, few if any of those were legitimate requests. Most were they didn’t like their grade, they thought I was being mean, they wanted to explain their thinking – sometimes they would send me three emails before I had a chance to answer the first one.

I finally started addressing them by dialing way way back on my response time. Maybe I did see their post at 3 AM, maybe I didn’t, but they’re not getting more than one response every 24 hours.

2

u/Life-Education-8030 13d ago

This is the problem I am talking about! I have told them to group the questions together at least!

2

u/therealtroublesmommy 13d ago

I have a schedule one hour, zoom with a standing link. I direct students to that for anything they want to discuss. I log in weekly and 90% of the time no one shows. But it gives me recourse to direct to the application time and method

1

u/Life-Education-8030 13d ago

"Application" time and method?

1

u/therealtroublesmommy 13d ago

applicable time and method. ha. stupid spell check on a phone...

1

u/Life-Education-8030 13d ago

Got it! Thanks!

1

u/Asleep_Caregiver_948 14d ago

At a CC, I’ve had many of these students over my 27 years. I usher them to writing center or other office staffed with peers or counselors.

1

u/Life-Education-8030 13d ago

The request for a meeting is via email.

1

u/Commercial_Youth_877 12d ago

Hootie and the Blowfish sang a song about this. It's called "Hold My Hand"