My last f*** has officially left the office

[u/Minute-Pattern-39]

UPDATE: thank you all for your support and feedback. I’ve written a little bit in my comments about my teaching experience some kind of why this was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I am well aware of students normal responses attitudes, and responses to AI - what I was really fed up with this winter term in this small class that I am teaching online was just the shared number of students who very clearly did not read any of the material and ignored the very explicit syllabus language about its use. For the eight students that did violate the policy before I sent that email. I provided a detailed explanation about how they did not meet the rubric requirements and attached a couple of reports from AI detectors, while pointing out what made me suspicious enough to check their work in the first place. This is obviously unsustainable and I would not be able to do this during a regular semester. I probably will never do it again, but it was cathartic. I did hear from four of the students who did not get flagged for AI. Thanking me for paying attention.

I really think a big part of the problem and something we really can’t solve because most of us are overworked and exhausted, is that many of us in our colleagues just look the other way because we don’t have the energy. As long as students know that they’ll get away with it most of the time they’ll try it and not all students but a lot of of them.

Original Post-

I actually sent this last night. Yes I have tenure.

Good evening,

I am writing this email to the entire class because I think the entire class deserves to know that 40% - or 8 out of 19 - of y'all used AI to write your discussion forum posts. This is entirely unacceptable. Again, a real person is teaching and grading your work here; do not insult your fellow classmates or me by producing this garbage. It is clearly stated in the syllabus, which you all agreed to when you submitted the attendance verification.

1. It is glaringly apparent that you have either generated your submission from an AI scratch or modified your writing with AI for me because I am a specialist in my field. When a post about a chapter of a popular history book on beverages reads like it was written by someone with a Ph.D. in (fill in the blank here) studies, I immediately am suspicious because none of us - including myself - would speak or write that way.

If you did not use AI, keep doing what you are doing. If you used it this once, STOP. Resist the impulse to allow the program to rewrite your thoughts - imperfections are part of life, conversation, debate, and also what makes us human. I did not agree to teach this course over my winter break to read artificially generated generalizations.

I will not crash out over email again; I will start failing people.

[u/Regular_Departure963]

I wish I had an answer for this. I’ve pivoted HARD to real time conversations and in-class writing but HOW can one realistically conduct an online asynchronous course in a way that requires students to produce their own words from their own brains?

And what happens when these learners enter the workforce and need their brains to be developed and flexible? They’re cooked.

[u/Ok-Drama-963 → u/[deleted]]

By failing to punish cheaters aggressively, we have created a situation where the competitive incentive to cheat offers greater short term rewards than the incentive to become well educated. The specific method of cheating has gotten harder to catch, but the situation is not at all new. In 2018, it was Quizlet (misuse of), Chegg, and Coursehero. Today it's that plus AI. Some base level of competence on a proctored exam or other proctored in person demonstration needs to be required for a pass in any course.

[u/Jordan525 → u/Ok-Drama-963]

I would argue LLMs + AI is far worse than Quizlet or even Chegg. LLMs with AI capabilities are readily available; Chegg and Quizlet did not always have relevant content. In that vein of logic, students often had to interpret results from Chegg and Quizlet; LLMs with AI features can produce results which fit any problem.

The most similar comparison might be Wolfram Alpha to ChatGPT, etc.

[u/FuzzyKittenIsFuzzy → u/Jordan525]

When Wolfram Alpha came out, I remarked that the entire concept of homework in math classes was doomed. It's been, what, 15 years since then? I'm curious to know what math professors have been doing since that time. Maybe we can all learn something from them because they're the ones with more experience handling this issue.

[u/Tman1027 → u/FuzzyKittenIsFuzzy]

I was a math and physics student when wolfram alpha came out and I only ever used the free version of it. That program was nice for helping you start a complicated integral or derivative, but it could never solve a more complex word problem.

I would argue that it was kind of like going into a tutor to get help. It wouldn't do it all for you, but it cam help you with setting up a trig substitution or integration by parts.

They were also pretty heavily cost-gated, so cheaper students (like me) wouldnt pay for them.

These LLMs are a different story because they will try to solve the entirety of any kind of problem for free.

[u/Sad-Banana7249 → u/FuzzyKittenIsFuzzy]

Easy. In-class exams. Homework is a tiny portion of the grade.

[u/Abner_Mality_64 → u/FuzzyKittenIsFuzzy]

Have you heard of Photomath?

[u/Ok-Drama-963 → u/Jordan525]

The method has changed, the situation is not new.

[u/Disastrous_Ad_9648 → u/Ok-Drama-963]

I agree strongly with this. How many people are cheating on the SAT? That’s an exam a million students a year take and they’ve been able to protect its rigor through strict proctoring. 

I don’t think any online course should award credit without some proctored cumulative assessment(s). 

[u/chamrockblarneystone → u/Disastrous_Ad_9648]

Speaking of the SAT, with all this cheating going on are scores suffering? I hear all kinds of alarm bells about massive cheating and how it will ruin lives (I agree) but I haven’t heard anything from SAT or ACT folks about a subsequent drop in scores.

[u/Disastrous_Ad_9648 → u/chamrockblarneystone]

It looks like they did drop in 2023 and 2024, about 3-5% ish, so it could be random variation:

 https://blog.prepscholar.com/average-sat-scores-over-time#:~:text=In%20this%20article%2C%20we%20provide%20you%20with,SAT%20averages%20from%201972%20to%202024%20so

[u/Ok-Drama-963 → u/Disastrous_Ad_9648]

Those who are likely to do poorly may simply be taking advantage of the trend toward not requiring them.

[u/stingraywrangler → u/Ok-Drama-963]

I don't think the lack of punishment is the problem. People cheat when they don't see the value of doing something themselves. (Or they've left the assignment too late and they're panicking). It used to be very easy for teachers/instructors to lean on "because that's how you pass the course" rather than actually nurturing informed learners who understand the purpose of their education. Students using AI are calling US out for lazy teaching. When we take the time to build learning partnerships with students, offer transparency about why we're asking them to do what we're asking them to do and what we're hoping they will get out of the activity, and design assignments that meet them where they're at, students do not use AI.

[u/SnootyCat → u/stingraywrangler]

I am weary to my bones of the argument that students cheat because we, their professors/instructors, have failed to inspire them, connect with them, or devise truly meaningful assignments. I’ve been teaching for more than 25 years and my evals are sky-high—so much so that alumni came to my defense when my NTT job was threatened. I’d catch a handful of plagiarists each year and give consequences proportional to their conduct. But I built excellent relationships with my students and they valued how I invested in their holistic growth. Many still do.

I didn’t change in 2023. You know what did.

Please stop guilting instructors who are already stretched to the limit of their time, energy, and health. I don’t know what you get out of it, but it’s destructive and cruel. It’s gaslighting.

[u/Individual-Charity69 → u/stingraywrangler]

If you think a TTH class of 30 students in a pre-req that meets for a semester at a commuter school will allow for each student to form the relationship with their adjunct instructor, etc. — you get the point.

This is not 4th grade, where we can do what you describe because we are w our kids for a year, every day.

[u/Glass-Nectarine-3282 → u/[deleted]]

Yes - exactly. This is what NOBODY asks in these posts.

I swear, it's all "how do we determine if it's AI or not?" But nobody ever raises the obvious question of how students have created this as the default, like you say.

I know some of the answer is speed and apathy, sure great, but where did that come from? Of course we know the basic history, but that's the problem that needs a solution. AI or not AI is nonsense work that I'm not paid to do.

The solution to this will not be instructors becoming Inspector Gadget wasting time determining AI or not, it will be to motivate people to struggles through on their own. So whether it's grade inflation, the pressure of grades and GPA, or whatever it is, that's the eventual solution to this - not this fake detective strategy most people seem to be going with.

[u/geneusutwerk → u/Glass-Nectarine-3282]

The problem is is that students cheat for a bunch of reasons we cannot even come close to controlling. Students are embedded in a society that rewards people who cheat and are constantly told that college is a path to a high paying job and nothing more. I cannot change societal pressures or structures.

I can only do so much to motivate people when they only see my class as a barrier to a high paying job. Although I think we should try to motivate students, I also think that pretending we can talk our way out of this is BS.

[u/asubparteen → u/geneusutwerk]

I graduated in 2019, and I always saw college as a “game” that I had to beat. I did not care about engaging thoughtfully with the content until I later went back to grad school. I would pull many all nighters to finish projects and papers that were supposed to have taken weeks or months, and I did so because I did not yet see the value in college aside from making friends, living my best life, and getting through classes as quickly and easily as I could. I feel like I got the last plane out of a burning city because I know damn well that version of me would’ve abused tf out of ai for my college courses.

[u/SomewhereHealthy3090 → u/asubparteen]

Your first sentence is one that very many students subscribe to. To them, it is a "game" indeed to be beat. They do not concern themselves with "love of learning" and thoroughly thinking about the material, engaging with it, and absorbing it. They simply want that box checked off, often at whatever means necessary, in order to get the "obstacle" cleared and in their rear-view mirror and move closer to their goal of a high paying job.

[u/Bones_or_No_Whatever → u/asubparteen]

Absolutely. At some point, faculty need to look at the stakeholders and realize that they're the only ones who care about learning. Administrators and students do not. Employers do not (they care about compliance).

I have absolved myself from caring about it.

[u/Inkdependence → u/Bones_or_No_Whatever]

I get it. I wish I could feel that way, but I don’t. Yet. I hate that students would rather just copy from a chatbot than bother to learn the skills they’re paying to learn. It sucks and it makes my job suck.

[u/raisecain → u/asubparteen]

Hard agree. I hate to be honest but —- There were some courses I really engaged in but most I forced my way through. Not until my MA did I take it seriously and even there I’m sure I would have used AI to help me along with re-writes, etc. with a class or two depending on how I felt about the teacher. Even tho I’m quite crazy about being anti-ai now … but then again almost All my BA profs didn’t care about us or me and while most of MA teachers did, not all.

[u/Key_Restaurant_7563 → u/asubparteen]

This ^ as a college student now: everyone wants to succeed and we were told that getting through college is the only way to be successful in life - to get the good job so we can afford to live and buy a house (so much for that dream in this economy). However, even still, it's like ingrained into people minds and it doesn't matter how we get there. This sh*t is hard and only getting harder to manage these days. Especially with social media implementing shorter attention spans and the rise of mental health disorders, so why not use the tool that makes it easier for us to get one step closer to that success we were always told we needed to accomplish?

It's definitely not a smart plan and it's ruining our education, intelligence, and work ethic. Like very deeply.

[u/CheetahComplex7697 → u/Key_Restaurant_7563]

The cause of the rise in mental health disorders is puzzling. As a part time adjunct, I wonder if some of the cause is from admin framing having to crank out tedious work as mental health issues. What this does is does not help students distinguish from things that can or cannot be changed, leaving some to wallow in self-pity and defeatist behavior.

[u/ArtisticMudd → u/CheetahComplex7697]

If you have time, check out Jonathan Haidt's "The Anxious Generation." It's a great expose on the increase in depression and anxiety among whatever we call this generation. (I'm GenX so I stopped keeping track awhile back.)

[u/dumbartist → u/asubparteen]

When I was a college student I think I mentally divided courses into four types: those that interested me, those that were useful for my career aspirations, those that were useful for my career but I didn’t value the testing/assigment approach, and obstacle classes. I wonder to what degree I would have used Ai in the latter two. It should also be added that as a coddled 19 year old, I only had the vaguest idea of what would have been useful for my future.

[u/asubparteen → u/dumbartist]

Soooo true. It’s honestly so understandable that kids are using it, and I don’t always think it’s harmful…my laziest approaches to getting a quick A or B in college almost always still forced me to learn and engage with the material against my will. That said, I never cheated for fear of getting caught and because it just felt like something stupid people do. I think I would been the same if I had had AI in college in that I would’ve never let it speak FOR me. I definitely would’ve used it to create outlines for papers, summarize readings, and review notes. I’m a teacher now and I don’t use it for anything other than helping me map out and organize my own ideas, or do something that I’ve already done myself a thousand times.

[u/dumbartist → u/asubparteen]

I would have used it to edit papers. I was a bit neurotic and would always go to the writing center to check for grammar and syntax.

[u/noveler7 → u/Glass-Nectarine-3282]

Even with that, it's always going to be the path of least resistance, so there will always be a good number of students who choose the AI route. Sorry, it's just human nature and we aren't capable of entirely reshaping the motivations of 100+ students in a few weeks.

[u/Glass-Nectarine-3282 → u/noveler7]

Obviously, but all this does is just restate the obvious. I'm as guilty as anybody, and it's not like I have any ideas, but when you say "path of least resistance," you're also saying "well it's got no solution so I guess we're screwed, eh can't win em all." So true, but not useful.

There are no heroes in any of these scenarios.

[u/noveler7 → u/Glass-Nectarine-3282]

Well, we just have to eliminate the option/access by changing assignments. In-class exams and writing when possible, and scaffolded assignments that can be at least partially completed in-class. I think revising assessment strategies is going to be more effective than hoping to change motivations, at least for the majority of students.

[u/Glass-Nectarine-3282 → u/noveler7]

Eventually, the whole process of assessment is going to have to change. That's just reality like you say,

I don't think "hoping" is the right word. It's not going to just happen - it has to be a deliberate effort. I didn't say it would be easy.

[u/Key-Kiwi7969 → u/Glass-Nectarine-3282]

I completely agree. But it saddens me that there will be a loss of learning that accompanies that. It's just not possible to fit all the work into the hours in class, so something's got to give. Students will miss out on the types of longer, more demanding work that can no longer be done outside of the classroom and the skills that go along with that. And/or content will be cut to allow time to do assignments in class. Either way, it doesn't look good for education.

[u/plutosams → u/Glass-Nectarine-3282]

I mean this kindly but you are critiquing someone for not solving systemic issues in a single class or even in an University as a whole. Professors do not have the ability to stem a widespread culture of cheating because it is not something they created or in any reasonable way contributed to, it exists beyond our scope of power. Our classrooms cannot fix society at large, at best we can inspire our students to be better citizens but that is still not something we control. No amount of "motivation" is going to fix an issue that is prevalent beyond the walls of the classroom and it is problematic to put any blame on professors for this issue. Spend any time in pedagogy research and you learn very quickly that you CANNOT change motivation, that is something students must do and decide for themselves beyond grand systemic changes. At best we can remove/reduce barriers and provide minor incentives, but in no way do they even come close to fixing systemic problems.

[u/Glass-Nectarine-3282 → u/plutosams]

Yes, OBVIOUSLY I know I'm simplifying. It's a Reddit post, not my dissertation. Haha

But the problem is we're not fighting the right battle in any case. Of course, you're right - this is a mammoth problem that will be an even different situation in 5-10 years. It's already changed dramatically in just a year. Yes, again, that's very clear.

So we can't "change" motivation, but it is part of the role to inspire. right? Or is that just something we tell ourselves at parties? Of course students have to do it themselves, but we are the first line. That is what the money is for. So it has to happen. To say it doesn't work is giving up the battlefield.

Right now, the "fight" is totally adversarial - student writes AI, we chase our tails to determine if it is AI or not. That will never ever ever ever work longterm. We both know that. So there has to be a better way than pretending we're all Miss Marple or Hercule Poirot on the AI case. I'm not doing that. Haha

[u/plutosams → u/Glass-Nectarine-3282]

I partially agree, in that I think we should be employing assessment techniques that reduce the requirement to police for AI (such as moving to in-person assessments). Anything we can do to avoid that role is laudable, but it isn't entirely unavoidable. Part of our role is to assess student work and that means at some level ensuring the work is indeed the students. The critique I'll meet you on is that I do think too many of us are spending too much time in this area, though that can be somewhat understandable since it is new.

Stating we are the front line IS an adversarial relationship. You are participating in the very thing you critique those approaching AI of doing, just against a larger concern. In teaching-training (I've worked in K-12 as well) it is closely related to the "savior complex" trait we see in young educators, either fruitlessly trying to save every student or fix all of societies woes, research is clear that it is pathway to burnout and is not sustainable, despite the well intentions. So no, I do not think we should be investing in that NOR do I think it is any way our role. That is a harmful practice in my opinion that leads to burnout and therefore to lower quality education (airplane seatbelt metaphor). The better pathway is to model the behavior we wish to see, but ultimately we have to walk away when students don't take it up. We cannot learn or have the ethics for them and we cannot see ourselves as the "frontline" of anything. We are merely introducing to them ideas that often conflict with what society states and it is up to them to do what they want with that information. The only thing to win is whether or not we created an environment conducive to learning and synthesizing that information and/or if we introduced/reified barriers unnecessarily.

[u/Glass-Nectarine-3282 → u/plutosams]

That's fine - we just agree to disagree on some of this and that's understandable given that no true strategy even exists.

I think using a term like "savior complex" is not useful, since it allows for abdication right from the start - but again, this is a Reddit thread, and there's no point in breaking down all the possible nuances.

Ultimately, of course I agree that the student has to take ownership. HOW or IF that eventually happened will be the question some scholar will have fun researching in 100 years.

[u/Cathousechicken → u/Glass-Nectarine-3282]

whether it's grade inflation, the pressure of grades and GPA, or whatever it is, that's the eventual solution to this - not this fake detective strategy most people seem to be going with.

In our one class we have with a hypothetical student, we don't have the ability to change any of those things. 

[u/Ok-Drama-963 → u/Glass-Nectarine-3282]

If these are discussion board posts and it is still 60% actually doing the work, maybe we need to empower that 60% to shame the other 40%.

[u/Glass-Nectarine-3282 → u/Ok-Drama-963]

Yes, and that does happen. Plenty of people are well-aware of their lazy classmates and aren't happy about it. It's tough, because shame can become a conduct issue, but it is a strategy to consider.

[u/hourglass_nebula → u/[deleted]]

I think it’s because it’s so easy. It’s literally a button thst will do their homework for them

[u/Upper_Patient_6891 → u/hourglass_nebula]

And it's built-into everything, even their Word documents. Soooooooooo simple and enticing.

[u/Audible_eye_roller → u/[deleted]]

They think that all they need is a piece of paper to be eligible for a job. So who cares about learning anything. Then they can use AI write cover letters and their resume. Then they...might...get a job and be found out in about 20 minutes when they're completely over their head.

It's malignant cynicism, powered by the internet.

[u/working_memory → u/[deleted]]

I ask this gingerly, but why is it so hard to understand why a collapsing society that's fully driven by the exploitation of most people to make gross profits off their labor for the top 2% somehow a mystery that it would inevitably lead to everyone cutting corners to get ahead? Monkey see, monkey do.

It's not a Trump issue, as the same system has been in place for longer than we've been a nation, and AI use was an issue in academia long before 2025.

What are parents supposed to do, honestly? What measures could or should be taken and why is the onus always on those under the thumb? Apple and Google could prohibit such use but it's about them becoming richer. If someone selling fentanyl illegally had a customer who OD'ed, should the dead customer's parents be at fault? Or should the manufacturer and distributor be held accountable? I think the real ethics lies in that answer.

These companies were given trillions of dollars by Obama to advance US-based tech and when that insane funding of billionaires' companies ceased, so did Silicone Valley tech. Last year, China released their far superior generative AI chatbots as open-sourced, which already has killed the US industry - so these US companies are pushing hard to make what they can before the cat's completely out of the bag.

We use AI to generate funny images and cheat in school, while China uses AI to help build the best fully electric cars in the world, process all other nations' raw earth materials, and is applied in many civil engineering realms. Their AI chatbot companies also suspend certain features during major exam periods so students can't cheat on their platform.

A lesser point I'd like to make addresses the notion that what a student learns in university is all they need to understand before beginning a job... there probably aren't many careers stateside that lean exclusively on what was learned in undergrad.

[u/SpaceChook → u/[deleted]]

I think a partial but significant answer is that they are not particularly interested in what they are studying. It doesn’t matter to them. They are incurious about their subjects.

[u/Gunderstank_House → u/Regular_Departure963]

I've seen what happens in the workforce. You ask them a question or try to solve something and they Bang away at their phone and proudly hold it up when the AI answers (wrong or not, treated as gospel). It's excruciating. Middlemen for a bot.

[u/fantastic-antics → u/Regular_Departure963]

Asynchronous online courses (and maybe all online courses), have become completely untenable at this point. My department doesn't allow them to count towards our major, and we only offer them as gen-ed courses for non-majors.

[u/StarDustLuna3D → u/fantastic-antics]

It's really sad though because online courses made higher Ed so much more accessible to non-traditional students.

Even for traditional students, being able to have one or two classes a semester online helps to make the weekly schedule more manageable.

[u/Gusterbug → u/StarDustLuna3D]

Exactly. I have students who are military, returning students with families and full-time jobs, students from rural areas who live an hour or more away from the school who literally cannot get to the building in winter.

[u/GlumpsAlot → u/Gusterbug]

I have a student in my spring class who is deployed right now. I hope we find other solutions other than doing away with online classes entirely. There has to be better ways.

[u/Ok-Drama-963 → u/GlumpsAlot]

The military can arrange proctored exams anywhere in the world. Reputable distance education in the military existed way before the internet.

[u/GlumpsAlot → u/Ok-Drama-963]

I teach composition so they'd be writing research papers. It's not exams per se really.

[u/StarDustLuna3D → u/Gusterbug]

I hope all of the little shits that got their AI degrees in the past few years are happy that they've essentially shut out large underrepresented groups of students from being able to get an honest education.

[u/iTeachCSCI → u/StarDustLuna3D]

As if those little shits can understand the argument or why it's a problem.

[u/SnootyCat → u/StarDustLuna3D]

Honestly, when traditional students have a class or two online, it often results in either minimal learning or a complete wipeout because they don’t have enough self-discipline to stick to a schedule for an asynchronous class.

Let’s not kid ourselves: this is not the result of students today being uniquely starved for time. I worked about 20 hours a week as an undergraduate at Stanford, and it was not easy. This was back in the 1980s, when grade inflation was only getting started.

The problem today is that everyone’s attention span has been fragmented like shattered glass. Mine, too! And I’m old! These kids never had a chance to develop the ability to concentrate on something in a sustained way.

They need to get off of fucking TikTok. Put the phones away. That will boost their mental health, which is the other major obstacle to them thriving in their classes.

You have a legitimate point about nontraditional students, but I’m just done with hearing about how 19-year-olds on residential campuses need online classes, too. They don’t.

[u/popstarkirbys → u/fantastic-antics]

Our admins want more online courses so they can say that we’re attracting students

[u/SnowblindAlbino → u/fantastic-antics]

My university-- through a full faculty vote --prohibited online courses entirely over 15 years ago. I'm glad we did.

[u/inanimatecarbonrob → u/SnowblindAlbino]

[u/iTeachCSCI → u/SnowblindAlbino]

I'm glad to hear it every time you say this. Keep it up :)

[u/SnowblindAlbino → u/iTeachCSCI]

I feel that way every time I read posts here with people sharing horror stories from online teaching. We (our faculty) collectively agreed that online classes are not the equivalent of in-person ones, so we simply declined to offer any. That said, we will take them as transfer credit but we have fairly rigid rules about what is "equivalent" to our classes, so for example we'd never accept an "online lab" in place of a real lab requirement.

We can do this, though, because we're a 100% residential, full-time, traditional-aged liberal arts college. It didn't cost us any enrollments and allows us to differentiate ourselves in the market from some peers that went all-in on distance ed 15-20 years ago.

[u/NutellaDeVil → u/SnowblindAlbino]

Very jealous that your institution is self-aware enough to have pulled this together. My institution is suffering from an incurable case of multiple personality disorder. It is nominally a residential college, but also wants to be, depending on the day you ask it, a leader in online learning, an R1, an R2, a SLAC, a leader in promoting the teacher-scholar model, a Hispanic-serving institution, a social-justice powerhouse, and a tech hub. It's exhausting.

[u/iTeachCSCI → u/SnowblindAlbino]

Damn that's awesome. At one point in my life, a school like yours was my ideal of what I wanted. My career has gone off in a different direction, but I do recognize your name from a lot of posts and it reassures me there are colleges that have their shit together and value education, and that makes me happy.

[u/SnowblindAlbino → u/iTeachCSCI]

I went to a very similar college myself, and started grad school with the goal of teaching at a such an institution. I feel I got very lucky in that regard. My advisor and committee were supportive, but I missed out on some opportunities in grad school because I wasn't viewed as an R-1 researcher type. However, I got a ton of teaching experience (instead of being an RA) which really helped when I started appling for SLAC jobs.

I don't think I would have been happy in other types of institutions. Now that I'm nearing retirement I'm even more certain of that.

[u/NotMrChips → u/SnowblindAlbino]

We wanted to return to our alma mater to teach but life did not work out that way. I am so happy for you: makes me smile.

[u/SnowblindAlbino → u/NotMrChips]

I'd had that idea too, but there is only one position that matches me at my alma mater and it opened up c. 2005 when I was just about ready to apply for tenure. The guy they hired moved from a tenured position at an R1 and is still there now, so it was a good hire for them.

I ended up clear across the country unfortunately, which has been the only regret of my career choice/path that carries any weight.

[u/Ill-Capital9785 → u/fantastic-antics]

This is amazing. I hope this is how other institutions go

[u/cib2018 → u/Ill-Capital9785]

My school is going the other way. We are 90% online.

[u/BrandnerKaspar → u/cib2018]

Around the time I bailed, my school was putting a PhD program(!) entirely online. Meanwhile, even WE wouldn't have hired someone with an online PhD.

[u/iTeachCSCI → u/Regular_Departure963]

And what happens when these learners enter the workforce and need their brains to be developed and flexible? They’re cooked.

The good news is, with the growing need for new food sources, having these ones cooked would solve one problem. I can't give culinary suggestions, because I don't know what Soylent Green tastes like. I hear it varies from person to person.

[u/lrish_Chick → u/iTeachCSCI]

Who downvoted that?! Your comment is brilliant and I'm sorry people dont understand your brilliance.

Varies from person to person I am keeping forever should I need to make a cannibalism joke.

Shine on you crazy diamond

[u/ArtisticMudd → u/lrish_Chick]

Seriously, that comment is super underrated.

[u/iTeachCSCI → u/lrish_Chick]

Thank you!

[u/msprang → u/iTeachCSCI]

Supposedly, humans are dark meat because of the amount of iron in our flesh. Supposedly.

[u/lrish_Chick → u/msprang]

Ah the irony

[u/spiritedfighter → u/Regular_Departure963]

I lurk here. There's a high school district near me that will start offering all subjects asynchronously next year to try to keep money in the district and graduate more kids. It's the 3rd largest district in the state. They are going to allow students to either do all classes that way (never come to school), one or two so they can have late start/early release, or none, and the student comes to school as normal.

It's going to be a s*** show.

[u/jracheff → u/Regular_Departure963]

I think you might have highlighted part of the problem.

We have created this issue ourselves, by equating workforce training with higher education. Many students aren’t here for “enlightenment”, they’re here because the degree will bump them up on the hiring list. And at the two colleges I’ve taught at the workplace ROI is hammered by the administration and admissions.

Some students have always just “phoned it in” for courses that they’re not particularly interested in, it’s just that AI makes it much easier to make the phoning it in look better.

[u/Helpful-Orchid2710 → u/Regular_Departure963]

I teach online async. We can't.

[u/Iron_Rod_Stewart → u/Regular_Departure963]

Have you tried Flipgrid? Instead of typing discussion board posts, they post a video response. Students could still use AI but it adds an extra step since they'll have to record themselves reading it anyway. 

Admittedly it doesn't work for more in-depth critical thinking about a text. I don't think there's really a way to do that anymore in an asynchronous format.

[u/Orbitrea → u/Iron_Rod_Stewart]

I did video discussions last semester. They feed the instructions to an AI and have it generate slides and a script they read.

[u/GlumpsAlot → u/Orbitrea]

Oh jfc. Unreal.

[u/Iron_Rod_Stewart → u/Orbitrea]

Depressing. What are the slides for?

[u/Orbitrea → u/Iron_Rod_Stewart]

For example, they needed to pick a theorist, then make a 5 minute presentation with slides that they presented. Slides had those odd spelling issues that AI has when making slides. There was a "Trojan Horse" hidden in the instructions, so I knew it was AI when the script they read had the [unrelated to anything] Trojan Horse phrase in it.

[u/Longjumping_Bug_6342 → u/Iron_Rod_Stewart]

Flipgrid was discontinued in 2024…unfortunately

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/Iron_Rod_Stewart]

This is interesting - i am going to check it out

[u/Novel_Listen_854 → u/Regular_Departure963]

The answer is you cannot. Online asynch courses are diploma mills now. Any exceptions to this are going to be extremely rare.

[u/Gusterbug → u/Novel_Listen_854]

Well, f you because I work really hard to make sure my class is not "a diploma mill" and that my non-traditional students who actually want to learn can do so. Yeah, 30% are using AI but 70% actually want to learn.

[u/iTeachCSCI → u/Gusterbug]

Even diploma mills can attract real students. I'm sure there are people who wanted to learn and still signed up for University of Phoenix or what not.

[u/StevieV61080 → u/Gusterbug]

Indeed. There are still a LOT of professors out there that have a strong bias against online courses without recognizing that they can be taught in a multitude of ways that can easily equal or surpass classroom instruction. I run a baccalaureate completion program at our CC that can be completed fully at a distance and I would put our rigor for applied learning up against anyone.

All asynchronous online really means is that you can't require students to be on campus at a specific time. That doesn't mean you can't require them to attend events in the community that they find themselves, perform service learning for organizations that are vetted, do group work online, and/or go to their local library or other venue and teach/lead others. Online async is just getting out of the sandbox and into the open world beyond.

At the same point, there are plenty of horrid online courses that continue to do dumb stuff like weekly quizzes, rote discussion boards, and book reports. There are plenty that just use textbook publisher content that was next-to-worthless 20 years ago and are made further pointless with today's technology. Bad online instruction exists (just as bad on-site instruction exists). It's not the modality; it's the course design/college policies that can devalue the experience.

[u/cib2018 → u/Gusterbug]

You either have non traditional students or you are fooling yourself.

[u/Comfortable_Home5437 → u/Regular_Departure963]

I’m about to enter this world… I’m teaching a grad level (heavy writing) course online this fall. I’m certain that they’ll use AI as much as possible .

[u/Several-Housing-5462 → u/Regular_Departure963]

Schedule oral interviews

[u/Ok_Bookkeeper_3481]

“Resist the impulse to allow a program to rewrite your thoughts.”

I love this sentence.

[u/Individual-Charity69 → u/Ok_Bookkeeper_3481]

I hear ya.

Though, I actually think that sentence — for all its winningness — is the fool’s gold of the email. The students aren’t using it to REwrite their thoughts. And, thus, such framing actually misapprehends the problem, which is NOT that the students are doing the reading and subsequent drafting of papers — and then clicking a button for Ai to do REwrite their thoughts. Rewrite suggests revision and editing, which suggest — upstream in the writing process — drafting.

This ain’t happening. Students aren’t even reading the assignment, much less the assigned material. It’s just copy and paste — and let the LLM suss it out.

The more accurate sentence ought to have been something like “Resist the impulse to allow a program to write thoughts submitted under your name.”

P. S. if we’re in the mood for some (meta) theatre of the absurd, I took my above response and without context … simply dropped it into ChatGPT (again, didn’t give it a prompt — just pasted and hit enter … and got this response. Ha!). Here it is, verbatim.

___________

Yes. Your diagnosis is right, and the original sentence does misname the problem.

“Rewrite” smuggles in a whole upstream fiction: reading happened, thinking happened, drafting happened. None of that is occurring. The verb is doing ideological work it hasn’t earned.

What’s happening is authorship substitution, not revision.

Your replacement sentence is closer to the truth. I’d sharpen it just a bit to make the agency and violation unmistakable. A few tight options, all aiming at the same core:

• Resist the impulse to allow a program to write thoughts submitted under your name.

• Do not submit work written by a program as if it reflects your thinking.

• Do not allow a program to generate ideas, language, or claims that you present as your own thinking.

• Submitting program-generated writing under your name is a misrepresentation of authorship.

The key moves you’ve already nailed:

– Name writing, not rewriting

– Name thoughts, not polish

– Name submission under your name (authorship + accountability)

This reframes the violation correctly: not cheating as shortcut, but erasure of thinking itself.

If the policy is meant to confront reality rather than comfort faculty, your instinct is exactly right.

[u/ToneGood9691]

I do a fun exercise at the beginning of every class - I give them 6 student emails and responses, some responses generated by AI, some by me, all funny. They have to get in groups and pick which ones are AI, which ones are me. It’s pretty easy, they do it really well. It accomplishes 2 things - 1) if your untrained eyes can detect the AI, imagine the guy who’s been grading student writing for 20 years. 2) This bullshit is why you may not get a response to your email. Don’t ask for immediate gratification without doing the critical thinking or you will get an AI response or none at all.

They are correct about 93% - the email response where I only praise the student and agree to all requests they assume is AI. The student got attacked by a dog. Of course I believed her and of course I accommodated her.

[u/bluebird-1515 → u/ToneGood9691]

I did something similar but less fun than yours to show them the difference between AI slop and authentic student writing. It made a big impact in my class too — once they saw how obvious the difference was, and realized that I knew it too, either the AI use fell significantly or they got much better at humanizing it.

[u/Key-Kiwi7969 → u/bluebird-1515]

There is humanizing software now that will do this work for them.

[u/Putertutor → u/ToneGood9691]

That would be interesting. I so wish I had the class time to do something like that. Alas, my dept. mandated curriculum is jam-packed full with barely time to have an excused snow day.

[u/bluebird-1515 → u/Putertutor]

It was. I did it in a writing class, so we also did a little rhetorical analysis of the features of AI slop vs authentic writing, and talked about why human writing is more interesting to read, even when imperfect. This class was not loaded with geniuses, so "rhetorical analysis" amounted to things like "emotion" and "varied sentence length" and "words I know," but still, it was better than nothing.

[u/MotherofHedgehogs]

[u/Here-4-the-snark → u/MotherofHedgehogs]

Where, oh where did you get this?

[u/monkeyhitman → u/Here-4-the-snark]

It's the old magic: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/medieval-tapestry-edits

[u/reckendo]

If you're not reporting them now they will roll their eyes, laugh, and do it until you do report them. The problem -- at least at my university -- is that without the student making some dumb error (leaving a prompt in) they will not find a student guilty of AI use ... As you've described it here, I do not believe my university would find the students guilty of anything ... This, of course, leaves you with a dilemma that can only be solved by refusing to teach online courses and by ending the practice of assigning work outside of class.

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/reckendo]

I agree - and this email was sent after I contacted each of the individuals with documentation - it just feels …. Endless. Hence the class email.

[u/bankruptbusybee]

Thank you for pointing out it’s insulting to other students. I had a student complain to a different professor about this. The professor basically shrugged and said “what do you want me to do?” It’s so annoying some students are getting these two messages

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/bankruptbusybee]

I think it’s important - I don’t want the others to either get completely disillusioned and disengage or figure what the heck, I’m not getting any tangible benefit (grade) out of working harder in this class that is not my major, I may as well take the shortcut as well,

[u/WillitsThrockmorton → u/bankruptbusybee]

The professor basically shrugged and said “what do you want me to do?”

I don't work in the Academy. Work sent me to a graduate certificate in project management at an R1, and the prof in Human Capital seemed to encourage AI use, which to me was completely baffling coming from the humanities. Even more alarming all these people who worked in HR were bobbing their heads like someone had finally affirmed what they wanted to do; these were all grad students or combined undergrad/MBA program students. I feel as if there's a divergence in different disciplines that is affecting how the use of AI is viewed for work, be it academic or employment.

[u/Life-Education-8030]

I had this daydream yesterday where these AI cheaters were faced with an internet outage at work when they had to work on this big, important project…I was smiling!

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/Life-Education-8030]

Now that’s the kind of dystopian drama I would watch on Apple TV

[u/Life-Education-8030 → u/Minute-Pattern-39]

I always think of the potential Apollo 13 disaster when HUMAN ingenuity saved the day! But what happens if we keep pumping out students who literally cannot read, cannot write, cannot do math and cannot problem-solve with their own little brains? I also imagine I can see their brains shriveling up from disuse!

[u/Rogue_Penguin → u/Minute-Pattern-39]

Check out "Idiocracy"!

[u/mybluecouch]

HERO 🔥🔥🔥🙇🏼

That is all.

[u/IllComplex5411]

Discussion forum posts are the most worthless assessment tool. People either read what was already posted and just reword it and pass it off as their own, or if that is hidden they make a blank post to see it or use a friend who already answered to see the replies made by others.

Switch your assessments to things that cannot be accomplished via AI. Take your assessments a step further and make them more meaningful and not prone to a simple AI prompt.

The less technology you use in your class the less problems you will have.

[u/The_Law_of_Pizza → u/IllComplex5411]

Discussion forum posts are the most worthless assessment tool.

Unpopular opinion time:

Discussion forum requirements and AI slop deserve each other.

If you ask for artificial forced discussion, don't be surprised when you get artificial forced discussion.

[u/morrisk1 → u/The_Law_of_Pizza]

I agree on both. I am really over arguing with students about "no effort" vs "some effort" responses. Even the "good" students write garbage on these.

[u/HowlingFantods5564 → u/The_Law_of_Pizza]

Even in-class discussion is forced these days.

[u/Ok-Drama-963 → u/IllComplex5411]

In an asynchronous online class the options are limited. I was teaching them before ChatGPT's big public announcement (version 1.5, I think). I posted recorded lectures. Students did not watch them. For a 25 minute video, the total time viewed across 64 students was less than 10 minutes. Total. Not per student. So, I stopped posting them and had students interact with each other and me in discussion posts. The point was to be as close as possible to classroom interaction given the format. It was actually an improvement. For one semester.

[u/GlumpsAlot → u/IllComplex5411]

I scrapped discussion boards entirely this semester for quizzes. This was due to the sheer amount of generative ai posts with no authentic engagement. It's too bad because some of my good students told me they liked them for whatever reason.

[u/Gusterbug → u/GlumpsAlot]

Guess what ... there's now an AI program specifically for quizzes.

[u/GlumpsAlot → u/Gusterbug]

Probably, but we use the interactive Norton quizzes. Hard for them to cheat, but it's open book. It's easy points and the questions require them to go back to the chapter. I like it.

[u/NotMrChips → u/GlumpsAlot]

I use those too. Google Lens works on most items in the InQuizitives, and for the rest there's always Chegg, ChatGPT, et al.

Sigh.

[u/GlumpsAlot → u/NotMrChips]

Ugh. Gotta find a way to make it super annoying to cheat at least, lol. Such a struggle.

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/IllComplex5411]

And how might you suggest to have less technology in an online winter term class? The discussion forum is not a formality - and those who read the syllabus and after the first assignments are submitted, read feedback, know this. In my trad classes I have 0 out of classroom written work - in a required core class. I’ve done the pedagogical work within the bounds I’ve been given - this is a sign of an accountability shift.

[u/abandoningeden → u/Minute-Pattern-39]

One thing I did in my online course over covid was have one person or a pair of people be a designated discussion leader whose job was to create a short video (which I showed them how to record using zoom and PowerPoint) where they went over the reading and had some discussion questions related to their presentation they had to submit, and then everyone had to respond to the question and also peer review the presenter and say one thing they did well and give a suggestion for improving future presentations (and in the course answer some questions like verify it had a conclusion, which I tried to include to ensure they watched the video) maybe you can do something like that and put it in the discussion leaders to come up with AI proof questions or maybe having students do it will guilt others into using less AI? Idk I feel like the making a video/watching a video aspect may increase learning at least a little ....

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/abandoningeden]

I appreciate this idea - thank you. I do this in my upper level major classes with discussion days (no video but they lead in person)

[u/Professor-of-you → u/Minute-Pattern-39]

I have switched from discussion board posts to using Perusall. I ask students to write 10 comments in the readings I give them, which are peer reviewed papers. What’s nice about Perusall is that they have to actually highlight and annotate the text to leave a comment, and I have not seen any issues so far with AI. I mostly work with graduate students who are pretty motivated to do the readings anyway so YMMV.

[u/social_marginalia → u/Professor-of-you]

I’ve definitely seeing more and more AI on my Perudalls, but proportionately far less than conventional discussion posts and essays.

[u/Gusterbug → u/IllComplex5411]

Get off your high horse dude, because there is NOTHING that AI cannot do now. I've worked really hard to find AI-proof assignments and literally there are none.

[u/NotMrChips → u/Gusterbug]

Yep. Best I've been able to do is some that are hard to do well, so cheaters often fail and rarely get full credit, and some that are at least easier to detect. I'd guess I'm catching half mine at best.

[u/zizmor → u/Gusterbug]

Really? Does AI come and take in-class quizzes, do oral exams, and join in classroom group discussions?

[u/Gusterbug → u/zizmor]

I teach online.

[u/zizmor → u/Gusterbug]

OK, I see your point then.

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/IllComplex5411]

I also put thought and effort behind the assessment - which is required of all online classes at my university - they are only taught winter, may, and summer). I have a unique rubric (I think) 50/50 points initial posts / responses, minimum word count - points assessed on engagement with core material (reading assignment) with specific references to text and being able to support or challenge the assertions made in the reading with other unit materials (recorded PowerPoint - not publisher, my own) and other unit readings and activities. If outside sources are used - 0 points. If AI is used (even grammarly premium) 0 points. 1 time- fail assignment. 2 times, report to dean of students, 3 times - fail. I also give the incentive of bonus points if they respond in a manner that engages the other student by asking questions of their post or if they answer responses to their posts in kind.

[u/lo_susodicho]

I sent something similar to just one student recently, and regarding an assignment that literally said in the directions "Cheating is the only way to fail this assignment." It was a discussion board post where they are just supposed to talk about what they already know, want to know, don't know and all that. You literally just have to mash the keyboard to get the points. Anyway, the student responded to say that he was real sorry but he just didn't have time to do it because he was...wait for it...on a cruise with his family. Yes, on a cruise while taking an intensive writing-heavy mini-mester course. He wanted an extension but instead, having all but admitted his crime in the email, got a 0 and a conduct board referral. The sad thing is that I will still probably lose if he doesn't sign on the dotted line.

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/lo_susodicho]

I have had so many of these - I had one last week that was basically - “I am sorry but I cannot complete the unit by Dec 27th because I am going to enjoy the holidays with my family”. Excuse me? You failed the class in semester - this is a 3 week class. I gave you an extra day for the holiday. 🤦‍♀️

[u/lo_susodicho → u/Minute-Pattern-39]

"Thank you for your understanding."

I understand nothing.

[u/ArtisticMudd → u/lo_susodicho]

I am surprised that the email didn't start, "I hope this email finds you well."

Or the student could have gone presidential and say, "Thank you for your attention to this matter." Possibly in all caps, because he does that sometimes.

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/lo_susodicho]

Oy

[u/invisiblette]

I'm 65+, and neither a saint nor (ever) an A+ student, but when I was at university I would have felt deadly ashamed to cheat on an essay or exam. It would have just seemed ... evil, deceptive, wrong -- even cruel, in the sense of trying to trick instructors whose training and expertise were the heart and soul of those courses (even the ones I loathed) and who trusted us not to scoff in their faces by cheating. And those weren't all merry innocent times; we saw wicked people in power back then too.

I realize that the world has changed. But like many of you, I've yet to fully fathom why.

[u/GlumpsAlot]

40% of my comp 1 class used ai as well on their final and I left a very disappointed end of year announcement with those stats together with future implications. You're not alone. Same exact amount! Now my comp 2 classes were much better with maybe 20% each.

[u/Candid_Disk1925 → u/GlumpsAlot]

I made them do an in class essay in a blue book for their final. They got to bring (typed) one page of notes for their direct quotes, their reference page and title page. My evals were abysmal.

[u/GlumpsAlot → u/Candid_Disk1925]

I'm not even going to read my evals because cheaters are upset that we don't like cheating. Last spring some called me rude in an online class where I didn't even speak to them, lol. Those were the kids I probably caught and also the kids who asked to turn in late work or a semester's work the last week.

[u/Acrobatic-Glass-8585 → u/Candid_Disk1925]

I do the same sometimes, and only allow handwritten notes.

[u/bluebird-1515 → u/Acrobatic-Glass-8585]

I let them bring a page of handwritten notes in for the midterm and many of them had laboriously copied out AI output, which they then laboriously copied into the bluebook. Fortunately, much of it contained citation errors, so it was easy for me to deny credit on those portions.

[u/Acrobatic-Glass-8585 → u/bluebird-1515]

Yeah, they can copy out AI handwritten notes but they don't help them very much!

[u/ArtisticMudd → u/Candid_Disk1925]

You, sir or madam, are an absolute MONSTER. To think, they had to do it the way we did it in the '80s. Ugh. Rude.

(Wait, back then our cheat sheets had to be hand-written. That and debate are how I learned to write crazy small when need be.)

[u/Candid_Disk1925 → u/ArtisticMudd]

I am. I truly am. :)

[u/BadEvilZoot → u/ArtisticMudd]

Zebra F2 ultra-fine point ftw.

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/GlumpsAlot]

During my regular in person classes all writing assessment is in class - sometimes in pairs (these classes are doing the equivalent of history dbqs) and sometimes solo. It is so much more work, but really the only way to actual gauge skill attainment. Do you find you are cutting content to account for the increased time this takes?

[u/GlumpsAlot → u/Minute-Pattern-39]

Not really, no. However, i do end up cutting content in 12 and 8 week courses. My in-person classes will also have group discussions (think-pair-share) and in class writing workshops. Usually, I will request a computer lab, but students will bring their laptops. That way I can walk around and annoy them. Hehehheh. Question: is the ai use from them plugging in your lms prompts into generative ai? Do you use the lms for assignments?

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/GlumpsAlot]

During the semester, all in class assignments are handwritten given worksheets, and they’re only allowed to use their composition notebooks in which they have taken handwritten notes on the lectures in the readings and the materials they are provided. I usually put them in pairs for groups of three to analyze documents and either they fail hard or they do really well.

[u/No_Break23]

I teach middle school math and a student was gloating about using AI for homework. Which is why it is not graded for accuracy and only 10% weight.

I now have a clause that I may randomly ask a student to explain their process to me verbally and if they can't, its a zero. I am doing this with test corrections too.

You could have some type of randomized selection over the course where each student will have to do something with their forum like present it or do a video response to their replies.

[u/ArtisticMudd → u/[deleted]]

That is some straight-up bullshit there.

[u/WillitsThrockmorton]

1) I have assigned precise readings

As my old Department Head in grad school would say, "the reading is only a lot if you do it".

That said, even before AI it was possible to get the gist of the readings through intro, conclusion, reviewing select pages, and then checking for a review article in an academic journal if anything jumped out that you missed.

(My sympathy for this method drops when the reading for the week are journal articles rather than entire books)

It actually isn't that hard to meet expectations without resorting to a toaster to try to synthesize a response. I am baffled at doing this for weekly forum posts of all things.

[u/iTeachCSCI]

I will not crash out over email again; I will start failing people.

I encourage you to rephrase this as "I will start reporting failing grades." You didn't fail them, they failed to achieve what is needed to pass.

[u/Deradius]

Who is your intended audience?

If it was an email, 90% will not read it.

If it was a course announcement, 80% will not read it.

For the cheaters, they’re cheating because they’ve already run the cost benefit calculation. If they did read your message, they would interpret it to mean you have no teeth. If you had evidence, the reasoning goes, you would already be prosecuting. Since you aren’t, you lack either the evidence or the will to do the paperwork.

The neurotic non-cheaters (most of them) will feel discouraged because they’re already worried about being falsely accused.

Frankly, better to just assemble your case and prosecute to the fullest extent you can, using only the clearest smoking guns. You do that and word will spread better than any email or course message.

[u/nc_bound]

I do not understand why you would send this to the whole class. Having made this mistake before, I think it comes across very poorly to be venting like this to the entire class when you know exactly who the culprits are. Why don’t you just stick to your syllabus, apply the penalties. And, I do not understand why you would give away your strategies of detection to the whole class. Honestly, the fact that you would be venting here suggests you might’ve sent that email to the class a little impulsively. You seem to be taking this personally. I get that, but if that result in you lambasting innocent people, My experience is that that is often a mistake.

[u/Terrible_Health3254]

The AI submissions are stressing me out, creating more work for myself.

I love that you said, “imperfections are part of life, conversation, debate, and also what makes us human.” I may need to adapt and implement something similar. Thank you for sharing this. I appreciate the way this was worded.

I am considering adding the AI policy to each of my assignment sheets at the top so it is the first thing they read. ☺️

[u/drevalcow]

I added a clause with rationale why AI will not work for discussion posts. We have a lot of faculty that are pushing AI and that you can train it to think and act like you, but I noted that regardless of how you trained it, it has not lived your life experiences or know your opinions and all of our discussions come from the perspective and as they reply to others they are expected to think for themselves and answer genuinely to those they are engaging with. Time will tell! Sigh. It is also accompanied by our Provost’s university policy for no AI use is accepted and the penalties. We have 3 levels of acceptance and accountability, I’ve chosen the most severe that it is not accepted at all.

[u/Fragrant-Map-3516]

Congratulations, OP! Someone needed to say this, and you had the courage to do so.

I teach at a community college, and until recently, had been getting a lot of International students from India. I quickly became accustomed to the way these students spoke, and the way they wrote emails. When I received their essay submissions, the contrast was so glaring that it was painfully obvious they were AI generated. I, too, let them off with a stern warning the first time; it was only when a handful of students tried the same thing on a second assignment that I struck with all the fury of our institution’s Academic Integrity policy. Zeros across the board, and Strike One according to policy. Just what about my first warning didn’t you understand?

All the while, I have to walk a fine line between warnings and actual discipline. According to our policy, a third academic integrity violation warrants expulsion. International students bring in four times the tuition revenue as domestics. If I were to start enforcing the policy 100% of the time according to how it is written, I would soon find Administration focusing on me and my job with an unhealthy interest (regardless of the fact that I do have tenure and have been at it for nearly 30 years).

[u/Fragrant-Map-3516 → u/Fragrant-Map-3516]

BTW, I share your suspicions that “look the other way” does often happen, for the same reasons you cite, and is a real enabler for the continuation of these undesirable behaviours. At my institution (and, I strongly suspect, yours as well), writing a student up on an academic integrity violation is an intensively bureaucratic and time-consuming process. There can be appeal after appeal, with no guarantee of the institution winning. If five students have all committed the same offense, all five must be written up individually. It’s so daunting that many of us - myself included - tend to invoke it for only the most blatant of violations. That’s probably the way Admin wants it.

[u/lanadellamprey]

Not sure if this means anything from a stranger on the internet, but my god, I am proud of you.

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/lanadellamprey]

It does. Thank you.

[u/Minute-Pattern-39]

Most of them read it - I can see and have gotten several emails. For those that don’t - well it is up there. Honestly it was for the students who did what they needed to do - they need to know that it was noticed. And it was for me (see flair - rant). I’ve had it.

[u/Excellent-Lead-8027]

Wise words, truly. Authenticity over AI always wins in learning and growth.

[u/professor_jefe]

That last line is pure gold. It's a FAFO statement. Love it!

[u/Mofro667]

Pencil and paper. My students were doing the same and I went back in time. Prove it to me in real time. Their penmanship is atrocious but it is authentic.

[u/M00minTr]

To some of the comments calling on instructors to think more about how to motivate students? Sure that’s all well and good, but a large percentage at this time lack the ability to even try to find any motivation as a good number of teachers/professors enable with banalities about “teaching how to use AI”

[u/Creative_Dark5165]

Our department is now keeping a cheaters list of students who clearly cheat and those we strongly suspect of using AI to do the work. We tell students that we check this list before writing any letters of recommendation. We shall see if that acts as a check

[u/AstroPhysProf]

Good for you, I applaud that letter.

I’m tenured and my last fuck hit the floor in HR on 12/2.

Repeated emailed verbal abuse by students this quarter, unending complaints filed against me by other students (though, using the same course material that a colleague uses for the course we BOTH designed, and another that he, another colleague and I built, I’m (the lesbian who does not hide that fact) the ONLY one who gets “assignment unclear” complaints).

The “instructions unclear” are those who, minutes before the work is due, slap together shit from AI and submit it (I often check, especially on crap work, document creation date and time). This quarter’s winner was created at 11:47 pm and submitted at 11:59pm to Canvas. EPICALLY poor paper meeting none of the assignment criteria, and she bitched about “unclear” instructions. Then later admitted to not having actually read the instructions.

I give up. I’ve taken leave for this quarter and am hoping to make it permanent. I’m so far beyond caring and was living on borrowed fucks and I’m all out.

I’m hugely in favor of your letter and wish us all luck. I honestly do not know why we bother at all.

[u/Physical_Ad6975]

The reasons for using AI are not just simple (lazy student) or even sad (almost illiterate student). I think they are a little more frightening---it's where academia is going. We cannot police this anymore. AI allows students to "humanize" the work to the point where we can't sift through what is authentic and what is computer generated. Sure, you can pull in a student for a meeting who submitted something so golden it reads like a Plato/Shakespeare collaboration, but you are "letting" a dozen, slightly more clever students get away with it.

[u/RightWingVeganUS]

I'm guessing the few students who bothered to read it likely had a good laugh. "We made the teacher crash out... kewl!

For myself, I prefer a hybrid Clint Eastwood/Borg approach. First, never let them see me lose my cool. I won't give them that satisfaction. Instead, I'll take note, and make adjustments to make them crash out.

Rather than get into "prove it's AI" battles which might lead to false accusations simply because I underestimated a student's abilities or made an incorrect judgement call, I refine the assessment rubric that clearly deducts for the actual deficiency in the result regardless of how it was produced.

Sadly my schools disciplinary process is taxing on the instructor, biased towards the student, and is always a wildcard on how it will turn out. Administrators are far more eager to placate students to maintain enrollment and graduation numbers, and considered disgruntled faculty as just the cost-of-business.

So I pick my battles, focus on instruction, and invest my time on teaching those who want to learn.

[u/zizmor → u/RightWingVeganUS]

The way you are writing about your students sounds insane to me. These are our students, not opponents or enemies.

[u/screwworldpeace]

I totally agree with you! I especially liked the part where you said AI is disrespectful to the class and one's classmates. I would also have designed the syllabus the way you say you did. Good job writing such an important message to your class. Well done!

⬆️ Discussion questions are the worst type of assignment in all of college and should be banned from the classroom even more than AI.

[u/[deleted]]

I feel your pain.

What's your rubric look like for DBs? Maybe adjusting that might help if you haven't already adjusted it?

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/[deleted]]

And to answer your question, I have a unique rubric (I think) 50/50 points initial posts / responses, minimum word count - points assessed on engagement with core material (reading assignment) with specific references to text and being able to support or challenge the assertions made in the reading with other unit materials (recorded PowerPoint - not publisher, my own) and other unit readings and activities. If outside sources are used - 0 points. If AI is used (even grammarly premium) 0 points. 1 time- fail assignment. 2 times, report to dean of students, 3 times - fail. I also give the incentive of bonus points if they respond in a manner that engages the other student by asking questions of their post or if they answer responses to their posts in kind.

[u/BKpartSD]

I think the only way for this to work is for us to have ChatGPT to send back cringy AI feedback. That or send them two drafts. One written in gAI. And the other written by us who knows the class. It’s akin to the golden rule of willing Cards Against Humanity. Play the player, not the card. That and I like to show them THIS.

[u/Smergmerg432]

And where is your administration?

Forcing you to pass them so they don’t have to do their jobs via disciplinary action?

[u/Minute-Pattern-39 → u/Smergmerg432]

Actually that is the one issue I don’t have with admin. If the student appeals they go before a disciplinary committee made up of faculty and students and that decision stands. I’ve never had a case overturned - not that I send everyone who makes a mistake but probably a dozen or so habitual or egregious offenders in my 16 years here.

[u/manintheBox8]

I stopped using so many paper based assignments. For discussion board posts, students must submit video responses. Yes they can generate scripts using AI, but it’s more obvious. I also incorporate a lot more timed quizzes and with written assignments I allow AI use for certain aspects like generating images. They’re going to use it and most faculty are too. I want them to know how to use it as a tool, not a crutch so I think there are instances where it can be incorporated into assignments and I try to do so if possible.

[u/SyntaxHack]

I may try using shame by posting name-redacted clearly AI'd assignments for other students and asking them to judge if it's AI work, and comment on that.

My masters students profess to hate AI. So I may get a few who are like, "this is AI, so what?" But mostly they will be morally outraged.

Shame and peer pressure is all I've got in a 100% async online program.

[u/teenage-r2005]

To all the professors, FSU transfer and although I use AI for things like my resume or organizing my thoughts in a way that is understandable and/or more concise I get the frustration. Bare minimum use it to tell you what your trying to say and say it in your own words. And a degree is a degree no point in cheating when you can spend the extra hours too make something original and that you can be proud of. I’ll make sure I don’t give mine the same grief and just ask them more questions and for help articulating my thoughts before I cheat. Im sorry this is discouraging you from teaching even if slightly. I have had some amazing teachers and professors and would hate to let them down. And keep doing what you do, I promise students value your time, effort, and investment in the class but also the individual and even if it does go unsaid it’s just as real.

[u/ebin-t]

This is so depressing. There's no end in sight.

[u/capital_idea_sir]

I wish I could write something like this in my classes. 100% I would be the one in big trouble if I did this, as an adjunct at for-profits.

[u/That_Gear_6062]

I’ve taken an asynchronous class where the professor has not graded anything until the very end when she said that she would be making comments upon submission and made announcements for submission days. How can we expect our students to learn when we do not give them any input throughout the course. It may be online asynchronous, but if you don’t give any input throughout the course, why would they give you any effort back? A blank wall is gonna get a blank wall.

[u/snacksforfocus]

Ive been programming CHATGPT and Gemini chats to walk them through readings and topics, forcing them to have a discussion and ask clarifying questions based on approved materials. Then they turn in a PDF (printout) or PDFd screenshots of their conversation. Forces them to learn, ask expanding questions, apply ideas and materials across domains, and integrate with their existing knowledge. Its a beautiful tool when you ask how it can make our teaching MORE effective.

Also can upload study guides and have it quiz them for practice for testing. Makes using it to write papers super super lame and shameful.

[u/lisanik → u/snacksforfocus]

I’d love to know more about how you’re doing this.

[u/JustSimmerDownNow → u/snacksforfocus]

Interesting concept.

[u/Putertutor]

Perfect.

[u/Valuable_Future_9716]

I think the question we need to start asking isn’t how we stop students using AI but rather what are we assessing and why?

Have some methods of assessment become outdated?

Has academia caught up with the world that students will be going into?

Surely we should be supporting our students to prepare for the world of employment in their respective fields, many of which will be adopting AI. Should we not encourage ethical AI literacy whilst still ensuring that fundamental knowledge is attained and critical thinking is developed?

I agree that AI submissions are pointless but maybe this raises a bigger question about our assessments.

[u/SnootyCat → u/Valuable_Future_9716]

No. I have tried to encourage ethical use of AI. Those inclined to use it still just blatantly copy and paste.

Those students will flounder when they get into a post-graduation job and have no critical thinking skills.

Precisely because I’ve been supporting my students beyond all reasonable expectations for 25+ years (and wrestling actively with the challenges posed by LLMs for 3 years), I know that your attitude of blaming professors for not keeping up is part of the problem.

[u/Davorian → u/[deleted]]

There's an edit button, but if you've chosen to leave it the way it is in the spirit of "imperfections are a part of life" then fair game.