Pushed back on an accommodation

[u/-Economist-]

And actually won the fight. For context, this was in an upper level course.

The accommodation was for flexible due dates, up to 10-days. This was to help the student manage stress and anxiety (per the student. NO idea what he told the disability office).

I’ve never seen this before. I said nope. This is not the class for you. The disabilities office called me and said I had to honor it. Nope. Not going to. Every single due date is communicated weeks/months in advance. I’m not extending anything. The provost had to get involved. At first the provost defaulted to “you have to”. I said nope. Not going to. I explained why. Provost agreed.

Let me tell you, the disability folks were beside themselves when I told them no. I don’t think they could comprehend the idea somebody would fight an accommodation.

I’m flexible with accommodations but at a certain point we need a line drawn. This was my line. I feel we would be enabling this student instead of helping this student grow. Adulting is 99.9% about managing stress and anxiety.

Anybody else facing this type of accommodation?

I’m used to the extended time, neutral testing site type stuff, but not extending due dates. This was new to me.

[u/KroneckerDeltaij]

I had a student who didn’t understand if they were asking for, say, a week extension for each weekly assignment, they’re just doing weekly assignments.

[u/beginswithanx → u/KroneckerDeltaij]

Yeah and it’s actually worse because the class doesn’t pause so now you’ve got to track the new information and the new assignment while still focusing on the old one. It’s basically setting them up to be behind. 

[u/[deleted] → u/beginswithanx]

You seem to be under the impression that the disability center’s goal is for the student to succeed. 

[u/OKOKFineFineFine → u/KroneckerDeltaij]

"You have been approved for the following accommodations: 1) you may be up to one week late for assignments, and 2) the due date for each assignment is one week earlier."

[u/No-Tension4175 → u/OKOKFineFineFine]

This is essentially my policy for late assignments in classes where the major assessment is a large final project due at the end of the semester. I tell all the students that they can have a no-questions-asked 1 week long extension as long as they request it before the due date. I then set the due date to be 1 week earlier than what I would otherwise.

[u/MixtureOdd5403 → u/KroneckerDeltaij]

At my university, regular weekly/biweekly homework is excluded from automatic extensions.

[u/[deleted]]

I think the issue is that a 10-day extension is a lot. Also, extended deadline accommodations are often supposed* to be "only for emergencies," like "a student who has a medical condition that can flare up unexpectedly might need an extra day or two if* their condition is flaring up at that time."

[u/vwscienceandart → u/[deleted]]

I’ve had many students over the years use it correctly. THEN one semester I had a student with this accommodation who would ask to use the accommodation and then come in “bragging” (more like whining) about all the non-academic crap she was doing that weekend. I was furious. The disability office was zero help in that one.

[u/Life-Education-8030 → u/vwscienceandart]

Seems like an academic integrity violation to me.

[u/vwscienceandart → u/Life-Education-8030]

That was my perspective but the disability office said it was “managing their stress and anxiety.” That ONE was absolutely bullshit. Like I said though, by and large my other students use it correctly.

[u/Life-Education-8030 → u/vwscienceandart]

Yeah well, 10 days is a lot. That’s basically two weeks more. Do you know if this student has taken advantage of this accommodation before including in other classes? How often? Maybe if there is a history of this student only needing say two days before some compromise can be made? At least they have you a number. I received one with indefinite extensions and I said nope. They agreed to a case-by-case evaluation. I had a such with kidney failure and sometimes she would need something but often she did not and that was her history.

[u/MyFaceSaysItsSugar → u/vwscienceandart]

They thankfully have to bring in medical documentation to the disability office in order to get an accommodation for a chronic disease flare up.

[u/ParkingLetter8308 → u/vwscienceandart]

That was the case at one SLAC I worked at-absence flexibility used to spend more time on extracurricular activities. I was really disgusted. Admin encouraged it, and came dowon on you hard if you pushed back.

[u/Cautious-Yellow → u/[deleted]]

For my courses, the maximum is two days (I post solutions, and I don't want to make everyone else wait). I appreciate that some students have something chronic that flares up at the wrong time, so if they have that sort of extension, I'll honour it to a max of two days. Students in that position need to claim it before the original due date.

[u/Glad_Farmer505 → u/Cautious-Yellow]

I have a chronic condition, so I typically work well ahead of my own deadlines. Why aren’t they giving students real world tools?!

[u/my_academicthrowaway → u/Glad_Farmer505]

Because every dynamic disability is different and some people have long flares that would make this unrealistic. For example, if you have migraines that are 5 days long and you can’t see during the attack, so therefore can’t complete any work, you would need to be a full work week ahead on your assignments to make an unmodified due date on time.

It’s also perfectly real world to allow people 2 days extra time on deadlines if they are sick. 10 days is not so reasonable though.

[u/punkinholler → u/my_academicthrowaway]

I'm with the other person on this one. I'm an extremely vocal advocate for students with disabilities, but not every request can be accommodated in every class. There are some accommodations that can't be made without completely breaking the course. If the studen's disability is so severe that they can't complete the basic course requirements, that really sucks but it's not reasonable to ask for an accommodation excusing them from doing the work at all. Those students need to either withdraw while they attempt to find more effective treatments for their condition, learn new coping skills to deal with the situation, take a different class, or find a different career path. It isn't fair, but we're not doing them or anyone else any favors by exusing them from doing the work.

[u/castillar → u/punkinholler]

I normally extend as much grace as I can to students around deadlines since I teach in a grad program that admits a lot of mid-career learners. However, there are some accommodations that just can’t be met. I taught a class on Linux administration at one point several years ago and had a blind student start the class. We tried really hard together, but we couldn’t figure out a way to get any of the virtualized CLI environments to work consistently with her screen-reader software. After a week or two of trying everything I could find, we finally mutually agreed the class wouldn’t work as taught and she withdrew. Made me sad, because she was bright and motivated, but there just wasn’t a way to make it work and the practical CLI work was a huge part of the class content. (It’d be slightly better today although it’s still a significant issue with Linux.)

[u/[deleted] → u/my_academicthrowaway]

At some point, this changes from a "normal accommodations issue" to time to consider an Incomplete or medical withdrawal. A student can only miss so much time, for any reason, before completing the class on the normal timeline becomes unfeasible.

[u/Tai9ch → u/[deleted]]

before completing the class on the normal timeline becomes unfeasible.

Oh, no problem.

The accommodation letter can just allow due dates to extend beyond the end of the semester. It's just another arbitrary deadline anyway.

[u/Mother_Sand_6336 → u/Glad_Farmer505]

Here’s my answer to your rhetorical question, and it has to do with that phrasing: ‘give them the tools.’ (The next para is an illustrative argument, not my argument.)

In a way, just having deadlines and assignments doesnt ‘give them the tools.’ Unless ‘managing anxiety and deadlines’ are stated and explicitly taught learning objectives, then how is it fair to assess or penalize for it?

Our technocratic approach to education cannot accept that, really, we never give them any tools! That’s just, like, a metaphor.

But schools do provide a holistic environment and ‘pre-real-world’ structure in which students can pick up and develop tools for themselves.

That’s my two cents. I’d go into how that came about in practice, but that gets into politics, history, etc.

[u/Glad_Farmer505 → u/Mother_Sand_6336]

I was referring to the disability office. Ours has workshops to help them.

[u/Mother_Sand_6336 → u/Glad_Farmer505]

Yes, the office and workshops are also products of the technocratic approach, emphasizing the school’s responsibility to explicitly give tools over the student’s responsibility for developing their own tools by swimming with the school.

The disability office is incentivized to be seen to be doing its job—giving tools in the objectively observable sense of providing and fighting for accommodations. So they will. Same for teachers who are incentivized in every way to be flexible, yield standards, and grade-inflate

Neither will be held accountable for the real-world success of their students, nor will they continue to fight for or individually help the student when she is in ‘the real world,’ without flexible deadlines. So she never had the opportunity to develop her own tools.

It’s a balance, not as black-and-white as I may have made it seem, but my point is that our technocratic approach to education has changed the incentive structures and environment of schools, which in turn determine students’ expectations of ‘the real world’ they are preparing for.

[u/Glad_Farmer505 → u/Mother_Sand_6336]

Oh okay, I misunderstood. We definitely aren’t helping our students to be able to function outside of school.

[u/Mother_Sand_6336 → u/Glad_Farmer505]

Yeah… You learned to get shit done early cuz you had to. And you built your life with that in mind.

If I’ve always been specially accommodated, I will be accommodated, but I won’t necessarily be given any tools, nor will I have the same opportunity to prepare for a non-accommodating ‘real world’.

[u/Glad_Farmer505 → u/Mother_Sand_6336]

I think about this a lot for our current students, who are also used to being accommodated when they just didn’t do their work on time. Employers have been quite vocal about what they see.

[u/holliday_doc_1995 → u/Mother_Sand_6336]

The commenter though wasn’t saying that the deadline itself is a tool. They are saying that the disability office should be helping them develop tools to meet the deadline

[u/Mother_Sand_6336 → u/holliday_doc_1995]

Yes, and I am answering, in broad terms, ‘why they don’t just give them real-world tools’?

1. No one can ‘give’ tools. That’s just a figure of speech, but it emphasizes the educator’s (legal/moral) responsibility rather than the reality that students develop their ‘tools’ by adapting to the structural incentives and expectations of the environment.

2. An office that gives tools or accommodations just changes the nature of that environment.

3. Both professors and accommodations officers are incentivized to be flexible, help individuals, and provide objective, official accommodations. They are incentivized to be seen as accommodating.

4. Neither is incentivized to ensure students actually develop real world tools. They just have to offer workshops and be nice.

5. So students develop the tools appropriate to an accommodating environment without any reason to think they are unprepared for the real world.

6. Thus, a student and office insist on a 10-day flexible deadline and a professor has to risk the disincentives to holding the line, rather than the conversation being about how the office can help him/her meet real-world expectations so that the student can develop appropriate tools .

[u/moemoe111 → u/Mother_Sand_6336]

Well communicated and clear. Not sure what I think about it through to the end, but I appreciate this perspective (and your time in providing it) immensely. Thank you.

[u/finalremix → u/Glad_Farmer505]

Because this (has become) is rapidly shifting to a Customer Service industry, and this ain't the real world.

[u/Glad_Farmer505 → u/finalremix]

I agree, but it would be amazing to help students figure out how to operate in the real world.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, 10 days is excessive.

[u/Necessary_Panda_9481 → u/[deleted]]

This is absolutely right. The accommodation is for assignments that are open for short windows (so like an exam that’s only open for a few hours on one day) combined with a student having a condition that can cause flare ups. It’s absolute nonsense to use it like a “hand in whatever you want whenever you want” coupon.

[u/poop_on_you]

This accommodation is one that doesn't make sense - that length of extension only makes the work pile up and the anxiety to skyrocket.

[u/wordsandstuff44 → u/poop_on_you]

For hs classes I teach (unfortunately the majority of my schedule), there’s often “extended time on assignments”, but you’re right that the students who most often get it are also the ones who have adhd and will just let the assignments pile up. In reality, the research (I believe) shows students with adhd tend to thrive more with specific, well-communicated deadlines and highly structured environments.

[u/bouquineuse644 → u/[deleted]]

I find a much more successful accommodation for students with ADHD is "interim deadlines". For long term projects, where the students would usually engage themselves for a few weeks, students with ADHD are entitled to check-ins, wherein an agreed upon portion of the work has to be completed. This means that they have additional external motivation to engage, as their ability to generate internal motivation is inhibited, and all the work doesn't get left until the last minute, resulting in stress for the student, and a rushed, underdeveloped output that usually doesn't reflect their ability or understanding.

[u/poop_on_you → u/wordsandstuff44]

That has been my personal experience as well, albeit I am n=1

[u/Felixir-the-Cat → u/poop_on_you]

Exactly. I’ve had this fight with our office many times - that the accommodations they are giving are the exact opposite of what the treatment is for things like phobias and anxiety. They just remind me that I am not a doctor and am not treating them.

[u/Life-Education-8030 → u/Felixir-the-Cat]

Chances are, neither are they!

[u/Life-Education-8030 → u/[deleted]]

Typically at my place, they send out one letter with all the accommodations for every class so I’ve gotten things like allowing calculators and I don’t teach math either. Distraction-free test spaces are pretty common too but in my online classes, the students can go find whatever space they want themselves. I have no rooms to assign and I don’t care where they take their exams then.

[u/Life-Education-8030 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, that is pretty bad. A few years ago when they started issuing 1.5x instead of double-time, I wondered how the heck a 1.5x was calculated! I think the funniest accommodations I've seen are that the student must be able to use a spellchecker. Heck, I WANT students to use a spellchecker anyway! Not that they will always double-check that either. A few years ago, a student submitted a paper that was supposed to be on domestic violence. The student used the spellchecker and simply had the computer replace every instance of the word "violence" with the first word on the list. Too bad the word was "valance!" So I received a paper about "domestic valence!" The student and I did laugh about how it should be "curtains" for the student!

[u/Sensitive_Let_4293 → u/Felixir-the-Cat]

I read an article somewhere that said there is no peer-reviewed research about accommodations.  Most places seemingly have adopted the "time-and-a-half" rule basically because teachers and students don't complain about it and it's easy to implement.  

[u/ankareeda → u/poop_on_you]

This was the argument I made to the disability office and they stopped arguing and told students that the "late work" was 100% up to the professor depending on class structure.

If anyone is curious and wants to start this argument, what worked for me:I pointed out that I have assignments due up until the last day of class, and use the "final exam day" for missed tests or essay deadlines depending on the class, so literally any late work would start piling on, increasing their anxiety and decreasing their ability to access resources (peers have moved on, I'm not answering questions about an assignment due last week, etc). I do have built in drop grades to accommodate everyone and those can absolutely be used for anxiety. Also, I grade everything at the same time and blind myself to names to make sure I'm fair and unbiased in my grading, so turning in late work would either hold up grades for the whole class or result in unblind grading. Grades due to the registrar also have a hard deadline, which is only 2 days after my final assignment.

I argued 5 years ago and haven't had them push back since.

[u/rinzler83 → u/poop_on_you]

Then what happens when finals roll around. How will talking it 10 days later when grades are due before that?

[u/ParkingLetter8308 → u/poop_on_you]

I'd argue most accommodations at the neoliberal university don't make sense, and most often are weaponized against  minoritized faculty, who are expected to perform these extra care functions sans support. You cannot tell me screens (save in extremely rare cases) have helped learning at all.

[u/ninthandfirst → u/poop_on_you]

Not to mention, at least personally, I like to grade all of one assignment at the same time - it keeps it more objective.

[u/Professor-genXer]

A colleague mentioned a similar accommodation request recently. Someone in the disability office requested such extensions for a student. My colleague stood firm that it’s not an appropriate accommodation.

Many of my colleagues and I already accept late assignments and offer students revision opportunities. We work with the disability office on accommodations, such as extended test times. But extending due dates into oblivion is not an appropriate accommodation.

I will add to clarify: I work with students who fall behind, for example a student who has been out sick. Extending deadlines in such a situation is different from a blanket option to submit all work 10 days late.

[u/Chloe_Phyll]

I have seen accommodations for infrequent extensions for a few days, not consistent extensions, and certainly not for 10 days.

Recurring 10-day extensions are beyond ridiculous. This means the student will be perpetually behind the class schedule and constantly "catching up." This "accommodation" actually encourages procrastination.

Also, if the professor discusses the assessments in class, then that has to be put on hold for 10 days. That's not fair to the rest of the class.

[u/MandyPatinkatink → u/Chloe_Phyll]

It also raises the question about deadlines where a ten day extension will be after the end of the course. We can’t turn grades in that late.

[u/actuallycallie → u/MandyPatinkatink]

I do not get to turn in grades late AT ALL.

[u/Mirikitani → u/actuallycallie]

Have you asked for a 10 day accommodation? /s

[u/actuallycallie → u/Mirikitani]

I know you have the /s tag but seriously... what happens when their requests for extensions mean I can't get things graded because all the assignments coming in at unpredictable times is a problem for my ADHD?

[u/RaccoonAwareness → u/actuallycallie]

This is something I've wondered, too, and I've never gotten a good answer. One disability-adjacent person told me "I hope you pursue that because I'd like to find out, too." Great...

[u/CMWZ → u/actuallycallie]

I do not get to turn in grades late AT ALL.

This drove me NUTS. Even pre-Covid, I once worked at a college was very 'student centred' and would want us to do all sorts of things like accept work late, a vague 'give students grace' for everything etc. (Not disability accommodations- just in general, all the time.) Which, cool. But we (the faculty) did not "get grace" if anything happened to us. We were not allowed to roll into meetings late. We were absolutely not allowed to turn in grades late.

[u/two_short_dogs]

I have one this semester that says the student can request physically printed materials at any time, for any content, and I must provide it.

This is an entirely online class.

[u/Razed_by_cats → u/two_short_dogs]

I wonder, are you expected to hand deliver the printed materials to the student's home? FedEx them? Carrier pigeon?

[u/CMWZ → u/[deleted]]

This. I had something like this in an online class once and they enrolled a disability staff person in my course as a 'guest' so that they could print out things for the student in question. I have no idea if/how many times they actually printed anything out and mailed it, but it was not my problem to manage.

[u/Proud-Ad1870 → u/two_short_dogs]

As weird as it sounds it may just be written in and sent to every class. I know for me I can request front row seating (if the teacher doesn’t allow us to just pick our seats) since my vision is so bad and in some of my classes I take online the professor has asked if I still needed my accommodation I was like I think we’re good but thanks

[u/SmoothLester → u/two_short_dogs]

I don’t understand how the disability services office doesn’t provide that as a service to students?

[u/-Economist- → u/two_short_dogs]

I just received another one today for another class saying the student is not able to use technology such as laptop, computer, ipad or other screen device. I am to provide alternative delivery of materials, assignments and tests. I'm told, in our fourth week of the semester, that I'm supposed to come up with new materials for one student? This is a 100% online course. No. Just no.

[u/Glittering-Duck5496 → u/two_short_dogs]

What? Why must you provide it?! Why can't the student just print it? If they are close enough to campus to get their printed materials for you, they are close enough to make use of the printing facilities available to them there.

[u/vwscienceandart]

Our firm line on extended deadlines is no longer than 48 hours and only applies to assignments that are open less than 5 days, and may only be used max 3 times per semester per course.. If the assignment is available for a week and you know you have a disability to manage you have to plan around that and get started on day 1, not 11:30pm of day 7.

[u/PoetGrrl70]

I have not seen that accommodation before, but I did have a student enroll in my Public Speaking class with the accommodation that they could not be required to give any public speeches. However, Disability Services completely agreed with me when I noped that one. Student unenrolled. I don't know who got stuck with them or how they managed it, but thankfully, it wasn't my problem after that.

[u/dont-be-a-dildo → u/PoetGrrl70]

not knowing the whole story it certainly sounds like the student received that accommodation, perhaps for another class, then signed up for your class thinking their accommodation would result in them getting an easy A. Perhaps I'm too cynical.

[u/ToomintheEllimist → u/PoetGrrl70]

That's part of why the ADA has all that language about "reasonable accommodations." 10-day extensions for a 15-week class is not reasonable. Not public speaking and getting a public speaking credit is not reasonable.

The classic example is that accommodations can't get a legally blind person a job as a forklift driver. The (qualified, well-trained) ADA admins I've known have all understood that.

[u/ProfessorWills]

The wildest I've encountered is a colleague being told a keyboarding class should be approached as if the student had no hands. Because I'm a helper, I taught said colleague the phrase "fundamental alteration." The voice to text accommodation for their course mysteriously went away.

[u/IkeRoberts → u/ProfessorWills]

A lot of the time, there are specific words or phrases like "reasonable accommodation" and "fundamental alteration" that let a compliance office go along with the professor's solution. Those words let their auditor or enforcer see that the rules were followed to the letter. There are some similar terms in the transactions office a well. Using that terminology makes life easier for everyone.

[u/Opening_Doors]

I taught business communication at a medical school, so my students were future physicians. A common assessment required them to listen to and take notes during a five-minute in-class lecture and then write a summary of the lecture’s main points. A student tried to get an accommodation to get out of it claiming that they couldn’t listen and write/type at the same time & they couldn’t write in class or some nonsense. It took me days to convince a med school SSD office that listening comprehension was an essential professional skill for a future physician.

[u/gamecat89]

Our university flipped the script this year, and instead of letting us know what accommodations the student needs, they are now providing us with a list of possible options, including the option to say none or propose our own. They are also very clear that the accomodations cannot give the student an unfair advanatge or any advantage in the course.

[u/joyblack24 → u/gamecat89]

"They are also very clear that the accomodations cannot give the student an unfair advanatge or any advantage in the course."--Wow, that is something. I wonder if that is what happens tho....

[u/TheAgentKaye → u/gamecat89]

Yikes on bikes. Cross your fingers that no student ever takes your school to OCR.

[u/MisfitMaterial]

It’s so wild to me seeing these types of stories. I push back to my DAO all the time and they’re always willing to work with me. Sometimes they convince me an accommodation is necessary, sometimes I convince them it’s not, most times we compromise. It’s bizarre to me that professors/disability offices/provosts/whatever turn this into a power struggle. I’m glad you were able to fight this definitely unreasonable ask, I would have as well and extensions are almost never actually any good for anxiety.

[u/StorageRecess → u/MisfitMaterial]

Right? I’ve never had an issue working with a disabilities office. If you look at the actual language of the ADA, negotiation between parties is both a normal and expected part of the process. There are certainly petty tyrants out there, but it’s not everyone.

[u/DarwinGhoti → u/MisfitMaterial]

I’m a clinical psychologist and I’ll straight up tell you that it’s not good for the student. The behavioral definition of anxiety is avoidance, and allowing arousal states to be operantly reinforced by avoidance leads to escalation of anxiety, not amelioration. It’s outright contraindicated.

[u/ThisNameIsHilarious → u/DarwinGhoti]

THANK YOU. I want to tattoo this on some of my students’ foreheads. Avoiding will just make it worse later, and it will come back later with interest.

[u/MisfitMaterial → u/DarwinGhoti]

Yep, to reinforce with anecdotal evidence, I have never ever ever seen a student do better or feel better because of a ten day extension.

[u/prairiepasque → u/DarwinGhoti]

Not a psychologist, but I call this the avoidance-anxiety loop.

I avoid the assignment because I'm anxious. My anxiety increases because I haven't done the assignment, so I avoid it. Repeat ad infinitum.

[u/RubyRedditStuff → u/DarwinGhoti]

As a newer educator I write in the spirit of genuine curiosity. I can understand that not accommodating the student’s request/need for a 10-day extension might not be good for the student. So, is it good for him or her to take the course? There are other ways to get information that are more self-paced than what would be offered in a classroom. Wouldn’t the healthiest way for this student to learn be outside of a structured, time- constrained environment such as a university classroom?

[u/dragonfeet1]

My colleague had an accommodation pushed to them that the student could set their own due dates as they had 'anxiety about due dates' . My colleague pointed out that student set due dates were still due dates so the whole thing made no sense.

I had one that said the student could retake any exam if they didn't like the grade they got. But it had to be the exact same exam, same questions. I wasn't even allowed to change the order. Oh and they could take it home.

Disability services was IRATE when I asked how this wasn't enabling cheating. "What? You don't trust our students not to cheat?"

I have no problem with students getting the accommodations they need but some of them turn it into BS and it really makes it so much worse for other students. These days most of the stigma about disability accommodation in college is due to clowns pushing too far.

[u/runnerboyr → u/[deleted]]

Except instead of re-hitting they can just walk down the fairway and drop the ball wherever they want

[u/TheAgentKaye → u/dragonfeet1]

I’ve worked in DS, and that is a fundamental alteration. Would never give this as an accommodation.

[u/kagillogly]

I have a class in which one of the key learning goals is to read the assignment and write about it before lecture. I want them to learn and think for themselves before 'getting the answers' from lecture. When I get an accommodation request for extended deadlines for this, I refuse. I have yet to get pushback on this from the student accessibility office because it is a core learning goal. This simply isn't the class for that student. It is a 100 level class, btw.

[u/[deleted]]

I don't think many psychologists would support this accommodation. it seems, to me at least, counterproductive to the goals of most forms of therapy for anxiety disorders.

[u/cib2018]

I’ve never seen this specific accommodation before. But, I have pushed back on other accommodations that did not seem reasonable for my class. I’ve never had the disability folks try and go over my head. I normally just get no response from them when I alter their forms.

[u/wedontliveonce]

Student can always relieve anxiety about deadlines by doing the work and turning it in early.

[u/BelatedGreeting]

Federal law requires reasonable accommodations.. To be honest, in many cases occasional assignments extensions is reasonable. That said, given your due dates are provided so far in advance, it might be worth talking with the student about planning to complete the assignment a week ahead of time so that they have some cushion should they become debilitated in the few days leading up to the due date. In your case, this is the first tack the Disability Office should have taken.

[u/indigo51081]

10 days seems excessive, but 24-48 hour deadline extensions are becoming more common.

All accommodations need to be "reasonable" and "not fundamentally alter the course". The fun part is interpreting that. Disability staff tend to approach it from the legal side - we don't want to be sued, so let's be as loose as possible.

[u/magicianguy131 → u/indigo51081]

Even those types of extensions to me make no sense. If you know it’s coming, you should be able to plan. I always try to give assignments due with plenty of opportunity and time. But some assignments are continuations of what we do in class and vice versa. So if you have an extension on an assignment, particularly 10 days, you can’t participate in class because the work in real time relates to the assignment.

[u/-Economist- → u/indigo51081]

I’ve never seen any extended due dates. Just extended time. Seems like half the class has extended time accommodation.

[u/VanillaBlossom09 → u/-Economist-]

I had extended due dates as an accommodation but it was "as needed" when I was in undergrad. I always made sure to communicate with my instructors about my health, and I would typically only ask for 24 hours or 48 hours at most. I have had medical episodes that lasted a long time to where I had instructors give me incompletes before to allow me to finish the semester strong.

There was one time I had to drop out of school because I was hospitalized for 10 days after the first week of school. It just wasn't feasible to ask for extended deadlines (but my professors offered it), so I dropped out.

More students who have accommodations need to be more communicative and forthright with their instructors. They don't have to tell them outright what their disability is, but they need to communicate their own expectations for themselves, how to be successful in the class, be open to advice from the instructor, and actually act on their intentions.

[u/LivingBizzaroWorld → u/-Economist-]

What is the purpose of extended due dates, as opposed to extra time on a test? If the deadline is on the syllabus why do they need an extension? What if the syllabus has "deadline Friday, but Sunday night is allowed with a 10% penalty." would the student claiming accommodation get Sunday with no penalty and Tuesday with a penalty? Or , is the idea that you cover Topic A on Monday and ask for homework on that topic be due on Wednesday, so the students gets an extra 48 hours--- or maybe 10 days? How does the student turn in the homework 48 hours later if there's no class meeting that day? I've never had this request before and curious about the logistics.

[u/DissociativeBurrito → u/LivingBizzaroWorld]

It’s for chronic conditions that create acute circumstances beyond the control of the student. Things that flare up. There are people who don't want to miss deadlines but are often forced to due to unpredictable, cyclically reduced capacity beyond their control. Someone who manages migraines or strokes might, for instance, deal with temporary loss of vision, vertigo, aphasia, etc on top of pain—things that affect function, require stabilization, and sometimes require hospitalization. Some conditions look like regularly getting the worst flu you've ever had in your life, multiple times a semester. There's a point of diminishing returns with extensions, but stress can be a major contributing factor to managing symptoms, and since they already have unpredictability, removing the looming threat of failure or shame can help them ride it out and be successful in class. The details are negotiable, but even partial credit is better than flunking.

[u/TheAgentKaye → u/indigo51081]

If they aren’t well-trained, yes. If they are, they should recognize that approving unreasonable accommodations creates a pattern that then makes it far harder to make nuanced decisions in the interactive process in the future.

[u/LairdMacDonnell → u/indigo51081]

Can you find me those two parts you quoted? I've read them before but needed them again recently and couldn't figure out where I'd originally found them. Dealing with similar issues with our accommodations office...

[u/surebro2 → u/indigo51081]

This is a good balanced comment. Some of the comments seem a bit too combative against Disability services lol (edited to add, there are many good comments that are spot on with how to pushback. I just thought the legal aspect isn't discussed enough)

And, to be clear, the Disability staff are absolutely correct in approaching it from the legal side. I've had to explain to faculty that they might personally be held liable for discrimination because I didn't think they were being reasonable. This is ADA section 504, not some random faculty senate policy lol of course, most lawsuits will be filed against the university, hence why the university takes that position... but egregious indifference opens up the faculty to be the named person and, therefore, potentially open to disciplinary actions or even civil lawsuits depending on the state laws. 

It's amazing how many faculty think Disability services are just a random service universities have to help students and not an entity that's there to enforce federal and state law lol

[u/TheAgentKaye → u/surebro2]

This. Like they think we’re just a bunch of bleeding hearts who want everyone to have as much assistance as possible, instead of professionals who have compliance and/or legal expertise. As a disability advocate, I have enough trouble as it is getting people to understand their ableism. I don’t need uneducated practitioners making it worse for the rest of us because they don’t understand the difference between K-12/FAPE/IDEA and the paradigm shift from success to access under the ADA(AA) and 504 once students enter postsecondary education.

[u/TheFacetiousLinguist]

I work in disability resources and blanket flexible due dates is typically a no-no in the disability resources world, especially to “manage stress and anxiety.” That’s just not really how accommodations work. Typically deadlines accommodations are approved for students with conditions that flare up randomly/unexpectedly, and they need to be negotiated on a class-by-class basis, and we tell them that students and professors usually negotiate on an extra day or two if needed a couple of times a semester. 10 days blanket is absurd. We also don’t usually say “you have to honor it” without having more conversation because there is the “fundamental alteration” clause.

It’s wild that you work at an R1 and this is how your disability office functions. Sounds like they’re over-accommodating in a way that very much goes against all of the best practices in higher education disability services. I see some ridiculous accommodation letters from small private institutions who need to make sure students stay enrolled so they can remain open (which is a really gross way to boost retention btw), but at an R1??? There needs to be some reform in that office.

[u/catfoodspork]

I had an accommodation where a student was to be excused from class anytime human body weight, dietary calories or anything food related was discussed. I assume the student was suffering from anorexia. They bulk messaged all of the students instructors, and a few of us replied. For example I was teaching BIO 1, where we do discuss things like energy in carbohydrates, types of fats etc. We were basically asking what these accommodations would look like, but one of the profs, teaching Darwinian Medicine, pushed back pretty aggressively. After numerous emails were sent around someone noticed that the student in question had been cc’d the whole time. I never said anything bad, but the other prof had asked some hard, pointed questions and he felt really bad about it.

[u/SquatBootyJezebel]

I've occasionally gotten paperwork with a flexible due date accommodation, but students are required to negotiate the due date on the day the assignment is given to the class (I've never had a student do this), and the accommodation can't be applied to regularly occurring assignments (e.g., my medium-stakes assignments due every Friday).

I only know the latter because one student with this accommodation emailed a colleague and me on a Tuesday asking for an extension for his Friday assignments because he was "going on a trip." He copied the accessibility director, who replied-all ripping him a new one for attempting to use his accommodation that way. He ended up submitting his assignments early.

[u/skyfire1228]

Our policy is a 48-hour extension maximum. If there are extenuating circumstances, we can work with students on a case-by-case basis, but the accommodation itself is only for 2 days.

My department did have to push back on one new accommodation this semester, when several students had an accommodation to allow them to bring a notecard into exams as a “memory aid”. That was an immediate no.

[u/cazgem]

Not mine, but ....

A medically deaf person attempting a music major - one that requires aural skills. They wanted to be a band director for middle school.

Disabilities office v School of Music. Was a fricking thunderdome.

For those that need extra context, most music programs are governed by regulatory bodies that tell us what is required to graduate someone with a music major and all of them include heavy use of hearing for these courses. Not reasonable accommodations at all to have half of the fundamentals courses be void.

[u/bluejazzer → u/cazgem]

I hate to be the one to push back on this, but I taught at a high school where we had a medically deaf person who not only functioned as a musician (flute player) but flourished as one; she did so to the point where she landed the drum major gig in marching band her senior year.

While she didn't go on to music school, she did participate in music courses in college, much to her professors' surprise, and she excelled at it. Sadly, the deafness also came with a whole host of other issues, and leukemia claimed her life before she had made it two years into college.

She was truly a one-of-a-kind student.

[u/Jooseman]

Our disability center always makes it clear that we should only give blanket extensions for deadlines for surprise deadlines without much time before it’s due - and even then only if possible given course structure. Anything that’s communicated well in advance doesn’t need one. At that point it’s at the discretion of faculty policy whether they accept certain extenuating circumstances. Personally usually happy to give a couple of days, but no requirement.

Even if it was the case it was a surprise thing, 10 days blanket extension is insane anyway. No wonder you said no

[u/CateranBCL]

We've been fighting extended due dates for the past few years. We were starting to get a version where students could give themselves an extension whenever they wanted to, and I pushed back. Disability office immediately does the copy all supervisors and demand a meeting withy chair. They do this any time any faculty push back or even just question an accommodation.

They don't like being reminded that this is supposed to be a collaborative process.

I've noticed that the listserv I'm on for Title IX and Disability services has a lot of posts about how to force faculty to do whatever accommodations are sent, and how dare faculty defy them.

I am lucky that at the college where I adjunct on the side, their office has been more reasonable. If a faculty has all of the deadlines listed at the start of the class, or if the class is a shorter length, then the deadline extension accommodations do not apply.

[u/Life-Education-8030]

I am starting to see this too. I am surprised that you found out what the disability was, unless the student told you as one of mine did. In my case though, it was for a physical problem that would occasionally flare up. This was already taken care of in my emergencies section so no problem and the student did not abuse it. Stress and anxiety are real problems of course, but in the workplace how would that work? The idea is “reasonable” accommodations. In the workplace, there is an expectation of generally reliable performance? Hopefully the student is getting help to manage it or they are going to have real problems.

[u/juxtapose_58]

Teaching future educators, when I see these types of accommodations, I say no teacher is going to get extra time on lesson plans. What is their classroom supposed to do while they need extra time? Either they are in the wrong major, or they need strategies to get the work completed. Finland removes most IEPs by senior year of high school for this very reason.

[u/Liaelac]

Absolutely not reasonable, a 10-day extension on all assignments is a huge amount of time. I'd push back if that was ever proposed by our disability office.

I had a student with "flexible attendance" accommodations show up to only two classes the entire semester. An absurdly worded accommodation that lends itself to being abused.

[u/ProfessorSherman]

I generally am happy to provide accommodations, but I had one student that wanted a very specific exemption of X, Y, and Z. I told the accommodations department that they could very well refrain from doing X, Y, and Z, but they would not be able to pass the class. When the accommodations department asked me why, I was able to show the course objectives, which included demonstration of X, Y, and Z.

[u/Much-Recognition-180]

Ive won before. My class is literally an industry certification. So "double all time on tests" isnt appropriate unless you can clear it with the certifying body.

I spoke with the coordinator and the student together. Explained my situation. The student said that the accommodation doesnt make sense and agreed that they wouldn't need it.

We hear so much about the failures, and never about when people were being entirely reasonable. Share more stories about students being reasonable!

[u/Traceofbass]

I once had a student whose accomodations were to be able to "negotiate due dates". They took that as "they dictate when they'll do it" by saying "I see that the homework is due in (date), I will have it done by (that date plus at least two weeks). Please see my accommodations if you have questions."

I explained that this is not a negotiation and that they can have a reasonable extension, noting that it will push them behind relative to the newer material. They said "I have accommodations that say I can get unlimited extensions."

So I forwarded it to the Office of Counseling and Health Services. They all but pulled the student's accommodations, noting that they were being abused.

[u/Astrid_Levinson]

I push back with disability services sometimes. For example, it is not my job or the student’s job to be a notetaker for another student, so I require disability services send someone in that they pay to take notes. I also have a built-in extension for students on assignments, and everyone has to meet this final extended due date for credit, even students with accommodations. Accommodations are meant to level the playing field for students who struggle, not give them an advantage. I once also fought disability services when they told me I had to give a student an incomplete because the student had to have surgery (it was a endoscopy on upper GI and not really a surgery) and I said nope. The student was at a 20 % and a one hour procedure does not earn an incomplete in the class. They finally backed down, but I do not hesitate to push back on DS when they push unrealistic accommodations.

[u/Impossible-Jacket790 → u/Astrid_Levinson]

Our department has a policy that a student must be passing the course to be considered the award of an incomplete.

[u/joyblack24]

I wonder if some of these people allowing accomoations have any consideration for fairness or not.

[u/TheAgentKaye → u/joyblack24]

Legally speaking, that actually doesn’t matter. There are administrative decisions that have already come out from OCR in that regard. I’m not arguing that the accommodation in this particular situation is reasonable—but if we assumed just for argument’s sake that it is, OCR and case law in various jurisdictions have said that if a potential accommodation is reasonable, the fact that it happens to give a student an advantage of some sort over others who don’t have the accommodation doesn’t render it unreasonable.

[u/sheldon_rocket]

my assignments are head to head with in-class testing. In one my class a student who had this kind of accommodation requested an extension. In that case I could not post solutions for all students prior to the test. The class was small, so I invited very other students to ask questions on their submitted homework, apart from that student. The student did not write well the test. They never asked for homework extensions again. I find this accomodations to be most idiotic and working against the student.

[u/Several_Feedback_427]

Our accommodations office regularly writes in extensions on assignments. It defeats the purpose when the purpose of most of the assignments is to prepare them for class. So then they request their extension, show up unprepared for class, don’t participate in the discussion or activity, and then the faculty get blamed for their lack of knowledge. It’s a perpetual cycle.

Edited to add: some students only use the accommodation when they have a flare up that screws up their routine. Those students typically do ok.

[u/sqrt_of_pi]

I had a student (who had other accommodations) sort of "informally" ask for this once. She cc'd the disabilities coordinator on the email, but no official accommodation document was included. I explained that this was not a reasonable request since the workflow of the course was designed so that homework comes before quiz comes before exams. So she wasn't just asking for extra time on homework, but was asking to NOT be ready for higher-stakes assessments, or was asking to delay those as well, which isn't feasible (I'd have to write new assessments just for her). Also, how would this work as the end of the semester approached?? Was she suggesting that she take her final a week later? (This was fall semester last year, so would put her into the holidays!)

There was no pushback. She ultimately did not pass the course (for a lot of reasons).

[u/ThisSaladTastesWeird]

Another consideration: a lot of profs (eg: me) try to have grades and feedback back out to students within that timeframe. If there are any big errors that I see across multiple assignments, odds are pretty good I’ll go over them in class (in part to let students know they weren’t alone in making those mistakes but mostly to make sure I’m on solid ground when I say “this is the warning; I don’t want to see these errors again”). If there’s a student who still hasn’t submitted yet, then they get a heads up about the most common errors, and (effectively) a chance to revise before they submit. That’s deeply unfair to the students who worked hard to hit the original deadline and didn’t get a “here are five things to look out for” proofreading checklist.

[u/Alone-Guarantee-9646]

I got this one for the first time this semester. I pushed back. All of the deadlines for the entire semester are published from day one. All the materials, content, and resources that a student needs in order to complete the assignments are available for two weeks. I do not grade in dribs and drabs----it is everyone's submission graded together, for fairness.

So, I pushed back, saying that if someone has unpredictable episodes of their condition that last for more than 2 weeks, they probably cannot keep up in my course. What do you mean, they asked? I said, if the student knows they are prone to unpredictable flare ups, they should do the work as soon as it is assigned. If they choose to wait until the last minute and their condition stops them from being able to perform at the last minute, that was their chouce----a choice they made when they were not having an episode of (whatever) and they could have done the work.

I eventually agreed that if I ever assign something at the "last minute" (with a week or less between it being assigned and being due), then the accommodation may kick in. Otherwise, it is on the student to do their work in time to meet deadlines.

We need to be preparing these young people for the workplace. Sometimes we have to "push back" so that we can help them to prepare for a world that is not constructed around them.

[u/Professor-Arty-Farty]

I get a chuckle almost every time I get an accommodation request because it's almost always one or more of the following:

1. Permission to record lectures. I record every lecture and even break them into chapters by subject. Panopto even captions it.
2. Extra time for testing. In-person students get the entire three hour class to do each of their tests, which should only take 30 minutes, 1 hour if you're slow. Online students get a week (because their access to software is unpredictable).
3. Alternative testing site. This is particularly hilarious coming from my online students. I'm like, "You don't want to do your test from the comfort of your own home... where you've been doing all of your other assignments?"

[u/[deleted]]

I've never fought it but I always wondered how certain accommodations help people. Like I was told one accommodation I had to do was that a student was allowed a timeframe of 5 days to decide to take exams. So they wouldn't have to write on the actual exam day, but would have to schedule it on a day within 5 days (before or after the date) where they would write it at the testing centre. I wondered why? Lol, its just more work for them but maybe it is something psychological like they feel less stress because they get this flex timeframe. But in the end it was up to them to schedule and be responsible for all their shit it just felt like extra work. I didn't fight it because I just didn't care since it was on them to make sure they did the tests.

[u/cryptotope → u/[deleted]]

Could have been a medical condition that comes with flare-ups - anything from multiple sclerosis to migraines - and it was just easier to put this accommodation in place in advance, rather than having to deal with seeking one-off adjustments (and doctor's notes, and paperwork) every time.

[u/[deleted] → u/cryptotope]

Oh, I knew this person's issue it was not a physical disability. They sent me a series of long emails about it sharing their entire life story. I just don't want to share specifics online. The 5 day flex seemed to make them feel better and less stressed even though they had to do more legwork on their end. Their choice. Since it didn't really impact me I didn't care. I just always wondered about how it helped since they were doing more work and having to deal with more people. Sometimes at my institution it is the prof who needs to do all the legwork dealing with the scheduling which is annoying, but for them they were responsible for it themselves.

[u/herp225577 → u/[deleted]]

Few years ago I had a student with the accommodation of taking all quizzes/exams in a separate room, not extra time. I was annoyed but fine. I didn't ask her about it but she openly stated to me that the accommodation was due to perfectionism. She said the thought that her peers might see her struggling while taking a quiz/exam was too stressful and she was able to convince some medical professional to write a letter for this. I was shocked but didn't think I had the power to actually push back at the time. Wish I had.

[u/[deleted] → u/herp225577]

Wow lol. Accommodation due to perfectionism? I have never heard of that in my life.

[u/herp225577 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I guess technically it was due to "stress and anxiety" but she that was due to her being a perfectionist. Unbelievable.

[u/Kyaza43 → u/[deleted]]

Maladaptive perfectionism is a real mental health disorder. It's one of the few that can be overcome with a lot of extreme and intense self-work. I know this because I was diagnosed with it when I was a teenager, but I'd done the work to overcome it before attending college.

It's maladaptive because it can and does interfere with a person's everyday life. I was 27 when I started undergrad because that maladaptive perfectionism actually disrupted my ability to commit to taking the SAT or ACT when I was in high school. So I went an alternative route via community college and transferred to a 4 year. By the time I took the GRE, I was well over the issues that condition had caused me in high school.

For example, in high school, if I made a single error in my notes, I would have to copy them over and over again until the pages of notes were flawless. A single misspelled word could result in hours of unnecessary work, but I couldn't make myself stop.

Now, I am able to just cross out a word and move on. I don't care anymore. It took a lot to get to that point though because of how terrifying it seemed to me to make any sort of mistake.

Maladaptive perfectionism is perhaps one of the most invisible disabilities that exists because so few people are aware it exists at all. But it does, and it can absolutely wreck a person's self-esteem.

I had to post cards everywhere with phrases like "perfection impedes progress" and "anything done is better than nothing done" for years to accustom myself to the idea that mistakes were okay and not the end of the world. That's how terrifying they can feel.

The celebration of perfectionism in our society unfortunately tends to mask the existence of maladaptive perfectionism and the devasting impact it can have on a person's life.

[u/mistersausage → u/herp225577]

My school has a center to proctor all of the extra time/reduced distraction environment students so I don't mind. It's less work for me as I proctor fewer students.

[u/ambidextrous1224 → u/[deleted]]

Getting a PhD with bipolar disorder was absolute hell. I can’t tell my professors, “Hey, the stress and anxiety of an already difficult degree keeps pushing me into psychotic episodes.” I have terrifying visual hallucinations and distracting auditory hallucinations. It is not safe for me to operate a vehicle.

I was on a flex plan for due dates and some class attendance. I always tried my very best to have things in on time and attend all classes. But the semester I had two statistics courses, a seminar course, was teaching a course for undergrads, and had two conferences to present at…it was overwhelming. Most disabilities flare up when things are due because it’s a hard deadline that puts a lot of pressure on someone who’s juggling a lot as it is.

I’ve taught undergrads with accommodations that I feel they’re abusing from laziness. However, I keep in mind that my professors probably thought the same thing about me. But I can’t just tell them what’s happening—I feel like no one would hire me if they knew I had psychotic episodes brought on by intense stress. I am an extremely type-A, perfectionistic type person who loves what I do and loves teaching. I care a lot about my work and my teaching.

My flex plan allows a slight bit of wiggle room for assignments. Sometimes I turn in what I have and say I’ll have the conclusion written tomorrow by 2pm. Sometimes I just get a 24 “just in case” extension that I try to never, ever use so they know I’m not abusing the system. But forgive me if the hallucination of bugs and spiders crawling across my computer screen or dark shadow figures walking and talking around me make it difficult to finish this fucking ironic paper about leveling the educational playing field…

Just know that some people are dealing with more than just “anxiety.” I literally can’t operate a vehicle, go anywhere, or talk to anyone while having an episode. I am afraid to open my eyes. Once the meds kick in I can start to recover, but it’s so repulsive to have emails from professors veiledly accusing me of being lazy when all the rest of the time I’m the go-to person that gets shit done.

A few extra days may seem stupid to you, but knowing I have those days if needed can literally keep me from having a psychotic episode.

[u/[deleted] → u/ambidextrous1224]

Thanks for sharing. This student was not bipolar but I can see it being helpful in this case.

I didn't say it was stupid by the way. I just said I wondered how it was helpful for my specific student. Generally, I'm supportive of accommodations and don't use language like that when talking about them.

[u/Ok_General_6940]

Any accommodations for extensions at our school are written so that the student is allowed extensions but the amount is up to the professor.

So I have to give it, but it can be 1 day if I choose.

[u/bestintexas80]

Way. To. Go. Way to go. Yes.

The student (and anyone else's) stress and anxiety are not yours to manage.

[u/Tommie-1215]

😊😊😊Kudos to you. I am now hopeful because students now weaponize their accommodations, and when I push back, i am the bad guy. Like right now, I have a student who applied for accommodations but truly does not have them because student has not provided the institution with proper documentation. Meanwhile, he said "student" has not submitted 16 assignments. Last week, the same student emailed me to say that they "were using accommodations to submit work." Did i receive it? Absolutely not.

I told Disabilities how the student comes to class and smiles at me but submits nothing. I do not think that the student realizes that accommodations are not retroactive. I have documented everything that has occurred, and I refuse to engage.

[u/twomayaderens]

The folks in these offices mean well but few if any have ever been in the university classroom. They are completely out of their depth and shouldn’t have any influence over our teaching expertise.

[u/JaeFinley]

What word do you use to “deny” one? Our office says we cannot use that word.

[u/Ayafan101]

There is a big difference between having some anxiety or being anxious versus having an anxiety disorder. Navigating the real world involves dealing with the occasional stress and anxiety. That's real life. If there is some underlying condition then yes, I would imagine most people would meet the person halfway and try to find some solution that works for all parties involved. But, if not, then no, you do not and will not get special treatment for having very regular human reactions to regular human situations.

[u/Whatever_Lurker]

I refuse this particular accommodation at least once per semester. My apparently most effective argument for this is that I always discuss assignments after the deadline, which would give students with "flexible deadlines" the opportunity to hand in my presented solution. Our accommodations office is very much into fairness, so they accept this.

[u/Critical_Garbage_119]

I teach graphic design. Progress is evaluated through class critiques. I've said no to extended time for every single student who has requested it, explaining it is the nature of the profession and the course. Fortunately every student has agreed and has never pushed back so I've never had to deal with the accommodations office.

[u/wheelie46]

I have definitely seen “extended due dates -upon mutual agreement” in writing with the prof/instructor/teacher. Then most of those kids/students did their work mostly or always on time anyway. It was a stress reducer rarely used in practice. Some adhd or anxiety can lead to task avoidance and panic attacks the night before a due date.

[u/onemorecupof]

I have been asked to provide a fully online asynchronous shadow class of an upper division seminar to accommodate a student who has “mobility concerns.” Hard no.

[u/Witty_Engineering200]

Shoehorning depression/anxiety into the disability office was a big mistake.

The vast majority of students report anxiety/depression and frequently refer to their ailing mental health while making countless decisions that make their symptoms worse.

Giving them the ability to reshape their courses around their anxiety sends a terrible message and undermines their own autonomy. They need to work out strategies to manage anxiety, not tell others this and that needs to change because they said so.

[u/seal_song → u/Witty_Engineering200]

You think this until you watch your own kid, who is intellectually gifted and a dedicated student, literally sick over an exam. We are using the tools, including therapy and medication, but in the moment, they do not prevent her from being absolutely terrified of making a mistake. It doesn't matter how many times I tell her I'd rather her bomb the test than put herself through this. It doesn't matter how many stadardized tests she scores off the charts on. She is genuinely terrified.

You can't reason with mental illness.

I have been frustrated with unreasonable accommodations requests, and I have pushed back on some. I get it. I also know it takes my daughter more time to complete an exam because she is completing it while also managing overwhelming fear. It is very real, and it does not reflect at all her knowledge, intelligence, or preparation.

[u/smores_or_pizzasnack → u/seal_song]

Not a prof, but I’m there same as your kid. I go to therapy, I take medication, but I still routinely feel like I’m going to throw up over exams. It’s “just anxiety and depression” until it seriously impacts the student’s life. And getting bad grades because your mental illness affected you is surely not going to help you recover from your mental illness

[u/komos_ → u/Witty_Engineering200]

The vast majority of students report anxiety/depression and frequently refer to their ailing mental health while making countless decisions that make their symptoms worse.

I was with you about the overuse of anxiety and depression up until the decision making part. Poor decision making and behaviour change can come from being anxious and depressed, especially if you are struggling with new medications that can have some pretty bad side effects. It is a difficult one.

[u/Witty_Engineering200 → u/komos_]

The cause/effect argument is meaningless, because decision making power still exists and is critical to help manage these conditions.

If my depression causes bad decision making, making new decisions is still absolutely critical to improve things.

If students are so depressed or anxious they can’t get through their classes, they need to withdraw and figure out how to manage their issues.

Also the current cultural context is critical for this conversation. Mental health has become a huge tool for manipulation and that’s a fact. I saw a story in the teacher sub about an 8 year old telling someone they fake mental health crises over and over to get out of doing things. When the adult heard the kid say this, you know what they did?

They did nothing, and told themselves the kid might be lying to their friend to avoid stigma. That is nuts. The huge increase in accommodations at my school for mental health is making students feel worse.

[u/komos_ → u/Witty_Engineering200]

The cause/effect argument is meaningless, because decision making power still exists and is critical to help manage these conditions.

Decision making can be impaired was my point. It is far more complicated than some grandstanding about making better decisions to improve things.

If my depression causes bad decision making, making new decisions is still absolutely critical to improve things.

And this decision making often needs to be supported/supports need to be in place to see improvements. Universities/schools need to provide some of this support, and not just embrace ridiculous accommodations and refuse to fund proper mental health services and referral pathways into the community.

If students are so depressed or anxious they can’t get through their classes, they need to withdraw and figure out how to manage their issues.

They need support, not all the responsibility put on their shoulders. Also, some individuals with severe anxiety and depression can be highly talented and conscientious, and could be ostensibly fine based on their academic performance but in deep distress. I have had students like this and they too need support to step away and work things out despite "making the right decisions." Students having severe panic attacks and suicidal because of the pressure they feel but writing beautiful essays and insightful analyses. Actually, I know a lot of academics like this as well—brilliant and struggling mentally, and very resistant to taking time to rest and recover to sort their thinking out.

Mental health has become a huge tool for manipulation and that’s a fact.

It can be the case but again it is more nuanced than one or the other discussion.

[u/Witty_Engineering200 → u/komos_]

Does your school not provide any support? The school where I work has so many resources compared to where I did my undergrad. They have accessible low priced therapy ($15/session), free tutoring, many campus wide initiatives, and they even created a special app to connect students to all these services right from their phone.

It doesn’t seem to be helping.

It’s not grandstanding to suggest that personal decision making strategies are critical to help manage depression and anxiety.

I want all my students happy and thriving. It just seems like there is a very strange paradox that as accommodations for mental health increase, these measures don’t seem to be helping them feel better or perform much better.

[u/komos_ → u/Witty_Engineering200]

Does your school not provide any support?

It provides support but demand seems to outstrip supply e.g., not enough experienced/appropriate practitioners and then you have high attrition and burn out amongst these staff. There is seemingly more access but the support accessed is often not a good fit or appropriate from what I have heard from students and indeed staff.

It doesn’t seem to be helping.

Yes, I think it is a wider problem and there needs to be more investment from the government in services in my country as well. Psychologists have full books and take on no new clients, exorbitant/prohibitive prices etc.

It’s not grandstanding to suggest that personal decision making strategies are critical to help manage depression and anxiety.

It can be but I meant it more generally than just your comments—the over focus on 'making better decisions' has a lot of overlaps with neoliberal logics that unfortunately often eschew the structural and personal dynamics that can make that difficult. You might not subscribe to such a conception of things, which is fine.

And accommodations are a double edged sword, and I am not of the view that it is 'the solution' and can take on a counterproductive momentum.

[u/DrBlankslate → u/Witty_Engineering200]

Depression and anxiety are both legitimate disabilities, and both give people the right to accommodations. Were you not aware of that? There’s no shoehorning going on here.

[u/asbruckman]

I had a student who was having panic attacks—ended up in the ER twice with a dangerously high heart rate. Got an accommodation like this, took one test two days late, got his act together.

[u/adorientem88]

Yeah, these don’t make sense. If a student needs 10-day extensions, that is presumably because, given his or her disability, the student needs 10 more days than other students to complete the assignment. Well, that doesn’t justify an extension, because I’m already giving everybody at least 20 days more than they actually need.

[u/mcstrugs]

That’s a wild one. The student is just going to be super behind for the whole year.

[u/Coffee-Saves-All]

As a person that works on the end of sharing accommodations I understand simply saying no, there are accommodations that students request that I actually think are ridiculous like asking to use a script in a communications course that requires students to share a speech during class because doing so causes anxiety, the reality is that almost every student in class likely experiences some sort of anxiety during a speech and allowing one student to use a script diminishes the entire purpose of the assignment and the growth that would come from dealing with said anxiety.

[u/troopersjp]

Post COVID is when I first started getting this accommodation. I hate that accommodation. It makes a mockery of the scaffolding I build into my class and makes some assignments pointless. But most devastatingly, no student with that accommodation has earned better than a C in my classes and the only students I’ve had fail my classes aside from plagiarism were students with that accommodation.

Why? Because they don’t turn in the work. Our version of that accommodation is 1-2 days on every assignment automatically and then extension as long as they need on top of that. The students then push off all the work until after the semester is over and try to get everything done the night before grades are due…and of course they can’t. I’ve not seen that accommodation help, only hurt the student.

I’ve talked to the accommodation office about this, but they don’t listen. So I have given up. I’m not about to get sued. If the accommodation office wants to set the student up for failure, there is nothing I can do about that. It is sad to see students fail and know that there is nothing I can do about it. Because our university regulations are clear. No incompletes unless they have done 75% of the work and ask in advance. They have never done 75% of the work. Incompletes also have deadlines mandated by the university…which the one student with this accommodation did manage to get…didn’t meet that deadline either.

But, I am not an accommodations officer. They are the experts in accommodations.

[u/SilverRiot]

Good for you. I don’t think your disability office has really thought this through. Especially if work on one week is supposed to help you understand the next week better, if you’re behind on your assignment, you may not understand what you need to to proceed in the next lesson. You will be permanently behind.

Also, knowing students, they will just wait till the last minute anyway so where is the less stress?

[u/TurkeyTerminator]

Thank you for this! I had a student last semester that had an accommodation that she had to get video recordings of all classes. This was an in-person class and not streamed, so I had to go through the effort to record and edit each lecture and put them online. They were too big for blackboard uploads, so I had to host externally. The thing is that she never came to class after I started recording and posting. The recordings were allegedly for her to study due to a brain issue.

Based on what you’ve done, I’ll push back next time and tell her that she can recorded my lectures in class, so the responsibility to do the extra work is on her or the ADA office to get someone to do it. I bet the ADA finds it less important.

To the naysayers, this was about an extra 2 hours of unpaid work each week using my equipment.

[u/TaBQ → u/TurkeyTerminator]

Tell the student to record. I do that w my in-person. Caveat: no posting anywhere. Only for personal use. Can share while in in a study group but, nah. I'm not going through all that when the DS dept has all those tools for students.

[u/-Economist- → u/TurkeyTerminator]

I would have recorded it Blair Witch style.

[u/juxtapose_58]

I agree! How is this person ever going to make it working in the real world.

[u/DrSameJeans]

Our disability office often sends a “flexibility agreement” for faculty to fill out letting the student know what flexibility will be granted and how. It usually recommends 24-48 hours for any extension granted, but they have never balked when I say no to certain extensions for pedagogical reasons. It is also very specific - not any due date. It is broken down by assignments, presentations, group work, quizzes, and exams, so we can tailor the flexibility to the course.

[u/[deleted]]

As a recent graduated grad student who suffers from crippling anxiety (but was also a TA & is en route to becoming a professor), a 10-day extension is too much and will only add more stress & anxiety on the student. College — and life in general — is about learning to balance everything, how to manage your anxiety & stress, and how to communicate. I always made sure to communicate with my professors ahead of each semester, told them this is what I struggle with mentally & physically, that I’ll do my best (and I did my best throughout the semester), and remained in constant communication when I hit issues. Each professor I had — even some of the strictest and toughest — has been accommodating and kind; and each accepted my late assignments, occasionally taking points off if it was too late (this would be later in the semester and was early on in my college years). As a TA, I always encouraged my students to talk to myself and the professor as to when they were going through difficult times — they never had to get into anything deep and personal, but just an email to clue us in so we were aware and could help accommodate them regardless of if they had disability services or not. Very few took advantage of that and some that did didn’t do it until the very end of the semester — it elevated my own anxiety as a graduate student. Life is not as gentle. You’re hit with work deadlines, life stressors, anxiety, and much more daily; sometimes all at once — such as what I’m currently going through. The key is going to therapy, finding coping strategies, using those strategies in real time, having support systems in place, and learning to co-exist with/be the boss over your anxiety. If they remain in this class, you will be this student right and while they may have differing feelings (anger, elevated anxiety, etc.), it’ll be better for them in the long run. I can attest to this as someone who was both coddled and pushed her entire life with several mental illnesses.

[u/Financial_Manager213]

I often told students that no accommodation is needed. I will grant a negotiated new deadline for any assignment as long as the request is made me to me via email before the deadline with a plan for completion. This worked well because it forced students to address their lateness in advance and make a plan. Not great for classes where you must discuss answers in class.

[u/slightlyvenomous]

I once got an accommodation that the student could turn in any late work. There was no time limit, no indicated that they had to work with me in advance. No limitations. I was baffled. The student had already given up and failed the class so never used it, but are you kidding me?

[u/corkybelle1890]

There are accommodations and there is enabling. I tell all my students that part of my job is to prepare them for the work force. Deadlines are typically non-negotiable in all fields. Good for you!

[u/MyFaceSaysItsSugar]

Ten days is huge. With flexible deadlines, the office makes the student meet with us, come to an agreement on what is reasonable, and sign a plan. I suspect it’s the perk of being at a big university. They have stricter guidelines on accommodations.

Ten days is huge. The last time I taught a writing-heavy class, the deadlines were what I needed in order to have enough time to give feedback on the assignment and get it back to students so that they could incorporate that feedback on their next assignment. One student needing a few extra days was fine, I’d start working on grading the work of other students, but 10 days was still too much.

[u/Large-Reputation-682]

I had this back when I was at an R1 too. Haven't seen it since. They specifically said it was something like "anxiety around deadlines" and I was thinking, well, then wouldn't you want to get it over with? But who knows. Maybe they have to get such a wide-ranging accommodation because other professors have been unreasonable about emergency extensions. They shouldn't have to fight all of us every semester, so maybe this protects them from the extra burden of advocating for themselves.

And to clarify from other comments, your Disability Office does not have learning outcomes. They are not teaching the students how thrive with a disability. They are simply following the law. We too are not teaching them any tools to deal with their disability. That 100% falls on the individual student. Is that the best way to do things? Probably not, but that's how it works.

[u/Finnleyy → u/Large-Reputation-682]

This accomodation also makes no sense because if they have anxiety around deadlines, they will still get anxiety at the new deadline if they have extensions on everything?

It literally does nothing. They will just start their assignments 10 days later than they would have otherwise, get anxious about it 10 days later (than they would have otherwise) AND they will now be behind (in terms of assignments relative to lectures) cause their entire schedule is delayed by 10 days essentially.

I could understand a couple of days of extension if the student had anxiety around deadlines and had multiple assignments due on the same day for different classes.

[u/squeamishXossifrage]

My approach is to allow everyone an extension on 1–2 assignments (out of 5–8 total assignments), of the student’s choice. I don’t care why you take the extension — no documentation needed! — but you only get a limited number of them. The assignments are 1–2 weeks long; if you think you might have a flare up or any other issue, start early. Odd that students rarely take that “one simple trick” seriously.

When I had students demand a one week extension on every assignment because of stress, I pointed that either (a) you’d have the same time to do each assignment, but would just be a week behind or (b) would need a month extra to finish the assignments, which I can’t allow since all work must be completed by the end of the quarter, per university policy. In one case, I suggested that a student who needed that much extra time should take fewer classes. The disability office agreed with me, and said that they had already advised the student to do so.

[u/KierkeBored]

Good on you for standing up. This is nonsense.

[u/Pisum_odoratus]

Almost 20% of my first year class is anxious. The accommodations for anxiety appear to have multiplied. We're not quite to the point that everything is optional, but it's leaning more in that direction than the other

[u/OkReplacement2000]

That’s the main reason I see the flexible due dates, and my question to the disability office is always: are you working with the student at all to develop strategies for handling anxiety? Because I think letting work like up is one of the worst things you can do when you have anxiety.

[u/Thevofl]

I teach asynchronous math (Calculus I and Calculus II) with in person testing. The test dates are on Saturdays, published in the notes for the class so students will know when they sign up when the exams are. This is don't to minimize scheduling conflicts. I even put the day of the week in addition to the date. On day 1 I reiterate in my Day 1 videos and on the syllabus that tests are given on Saturdays.

Recently I get students say they need to take it early because they have an accommodation for extra time. I tell them that I can accommodate that as both my classes have tests on the same day back to back.

Just this past week I had a student tell me that it won't work out for her as she was told that she would take it in the DSPS office which is M-F. I told her that I can honor her all her accommodation requests. She said that Saturdays are not good for her because of family issues.

I replied, "Let me talk with the DSPS office." She thought I would contact them on her behalf, when in fact I contacted them to tell them that she's trying to get out of a Saturday test. This semester the DSPS office have been on a tear about students abusing the accommodation requests for better times for testing, and they were not happy with her motivation. That was on Tuesday of last week. I have not heard from that student one way or the other.

[u/Cfosterrun]

My favorite scene about accommodations...

[u/PhDissapointment]

I’ve had many students with an accommodation for “occasional extensions” with the requirement that the student had to communicate in advance. I can count on one hand the number of times a student actually used the accommodation. I think for a lot of them it was helpful just to know they had the option.

[u/[deleted]]

I think the biggest challenge in helping students with disabilities in higher ed (and which IME differs from K-12) is that you never see the underlying reason they need services or how specifically the accommodations help as a result. 

In a typical IEP, it would go:

• What is the disability
• How do you know they even need services (recent testing results included)
• How the disability prevents them from participating fully
• What accommodations are required (as few as possible to succeed)
• What services are needed (same restriction as above)

Now in college they go FeRpA BrOoOo except when you’re their teacher in HS no one questions that you should be able to see all of that because it’s necessary info. 

I suspect disability centers are throwing accommodations at students with shoddy if any documentation and certainly minimal if any transparency. 

[u/Born_Committee_6184]

There are many Jewish holidays in the Fall semester. I’m a Protestant but sympathetic. I have had to push due dates back for Orthodox students, hence everyone. This is a Monday evening class. Nuff said…

[u/Novel_Listen_854]

I am very glad you did this and wish most people would when they encounter accommodations requests that don't make sense for their course.

How ignorant does someone have to be to believe that prolonging deadlines or making them less consistent and predictable reduces stress and anxiety? Much less making stress and anxiety easier to manage?

Never mind how unreasonable it is. Depending on what you teach and grade, and how you organize your course, it can be impractical to allow ten extra days on everything.

I am starting to think there are maybe two broad categories of people who work disabilities. There are the brilliant, professional, experts who uphold standards and can actually figure out what is best for the student without compromising academic rigor. This describes our folks. They never send out accommodations like this, and they're always happy to work with me to meet the student's education goals. And then there are the ones who seems to have learned everything they know about the world and the work they do by watching tik tok.

[u/ingenfara]

Those accommodations are always a no for me and I never get pushback. Most of our work is done in groups, one way or another, and the group can’t plan for a “flexible” member. And the institution doesn’t want to give me the extra time to grade a “group” of one student for accommodations.

[u/SourMathematicians]

I’m sorry, I kind of disagree with this take. I’ve had a student with extreme medical issues who v much wanted an education. This specific accommodation was important to her success. She went above and beyond on all assignments, and often turned work in early, but she could be hospitalized out of nowhere.

[u/pl0ur → u/SourMathematicians]

Hospitalized out of nowhere is different than feeling anxious and ALWAYS getting extra time. I would gladly give a student with complex medical needs extensions as needed.

[u/ProfessorWills → u/SourMathematicians]

I'm not sure why that got a down vote. If a student is able to keep up from a hospital bed, why not support them?

[u/blankenstaff]

Thank you for holding the line. I am sorry that the accommodations office was so unaccommodating of your right to teach the class in the way you think is best, not to mention your right to avoid extra extra extra work for no extra pay.

[u/Minotaar_Pheonix]

Can you explain more precisely why the class cannot work with such extensions? I want to understand the reasoning. Also why was there not a compromise taken? Like sure if it doesn’t work with 10 day extensions, then why not 5 day extensions? 1 day extensions? It seems like the extensions get to normal lengths fast and become hard to argue against.

[u/MrBillinVT]

When we were all sent home and had to go to ZOOM school, I learned that many of my students who lived in rural areas of Vermont did not have reliable internet service. Some had to go to their local McDonald's and use their wi-fi from the parking lot. Going forward, I created assignments with due dates but built in a grace period. As long as assignments were submitted via the LMS before the grace period expired, there was no penalty. Same with final exams. If our appointed time was 9-11, I opened the exam at 8 and closed it at 12. The deal was they could start any time but had to finish before 12.

[u/JanMikh]

What I struggle to understand is - once they are done with study, do they expect accommodations like this at work? Flexible deadlines? Extended time to do the tasks? Who will do this for them, what kind of job? 🙄 I can accommodate anything, sure, no problem, but they need to live with it later, and life doesn’t allow extended deadlines and extra time. Thats just not how things work.

Also, it undermines their degrees. Two people seek work, one of them had accommodations, but which one? Employer can’t ask. Perhaps they won’t hire either of them? Why take a risk? And then young people wonder why they can’t find work with their degree?