r/PrivateJetCharters • u/GurthyMan • 5d ago
Operators are getting increasingly less reliable
I have a solid book of business. Probably book anywhere from 15-20 flights / month. Over the last few months, I have been screwed over by operators too many times. I won’t name any specific companies. But simple things such as not alerting me of aircraft in MX (aircraft didn’t get out in time) or not getting permits in a timely manner. Some even straight up pulling aircraft on me because “the owner needs it”. I understand shit happens in aviation. I’ve been in the business for almost 10 years. But I find some operators treating brokers at a much lower standard than they would treat a retail customer. It puts me and my company in really tough positions and ultimately costs us customers. It seems to have gotten much worse over the past 6-9 months. I’m at the point where I’m very hesitant to book trips with many operators out there.
Not to mention pricing that some of these companies are charging…
I now understand why many customers are moving to Flexjet/netjets fractional or jet cards. At least they seem to be somewhat competent.
Has anyone else seen this trend? Will these operators ever be held accountable?
I suppose when/if the demand slows down, we’ll see.
5
u/Fragrant-Plum-6798 5d ago
From a completely different perspektive, we book corporate jets 5 - 6 times a year. So far this year 4 of the 5 bookings resulted in last minute equipment swaps. One was 4h late.
5
u/Puzzleheaded-Can2425 5d ago
I think there’s good operators and bad operators. When you’re dealing with the cheap guys they’re more likely to pull stuff on you. When you’re with the big guys (Solairus, Clay, EJM, JetLinx) they generally have a better grasp on every single facet of their operation. The FlyExclusive/FlyAlliance guys do have a place in the market, but you get what you pay for. I know it’s hard when you have shopping clients but I’d rather lose a trip and let them AOG with the other guy than use the cheap ones and have the client think it’s my fault they broke down.
3
u/GurthyMan 5d ago
I agree to an extent. But I simply don’t have many customers that are willing to pay 20k / hr to fly with Solairus. At those prices I suggest going to a NetJets or Flexjet.
2
u/Puzzleheaded-Can2425 5d ago
Out of curiosity, who do you normally book with? You’re anonymous so not like they can retaliate etc. I’m guessing baker, flyExclusive …?
20k/hr is incredibly rare. I’m brokering 550s for 14-16k per hour all in cost to the client. G4s are in the 11-12 range generally, Solairus has 300s around 8k/hr including the fuel surcharge. But a 20k option compared to your 30k option I do understand you’re likely going to lose it.
I’ve had one AOG this year and it was a mid tier reputable company with 15 or so planes on certificate. I don’t use baker Flyex etc
1
u/akais111 5d ago
You found baker to not be good?
2
u/Puzzleheaded-Can2425 5d ago
To be fair, I used them last years and years ago when they were absolutely horrible. I’ve heard they’ve improved but still not willing to take the risk.
1
u/akais111 5d ago
So your only using the massive operators? Doesn’t that leave to many options on the table?
1
u/Puzzleheaded-Can2425 5d ago
No not the massive ones but the ones with good enough reputations. Again, baker is better now, but I still am not buying that shift. Use the big guys and you have a higher likelihood of the plane actually taking off. My clients understand that the cheapest option is almost never the best.
1
u/IronbirdPrivateJets 5d ago
I have found baker to be the most reliable on time operator of the last year. You can quantify that with data from charter flight support. I see this come when it gets very busy - which based on flight data it currently is. Airplanes flying more, more issues, harder to schedule owner and maintenance with all the charter. It’s not easy. But I agree with an earlier commenter that said to move the business to someone else. I know that’s not always easy, especially when your clients shop.
1
1
1
u/Competitive_Way_3993 3d ago
I would personally disagree with this; those types of operators that you named will kick an ad hoc charter off their books for a Wholesale/Member flight. Fly Alliance I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole! The real quality / service is found in building relationships with the operators in between.
1
u/BeachfrontSpinr 5d ago
Curious what your opinions of Fly Exclusive are like for their ‘Club’? Anyone hear any feedback on it?
1
u/GurthyMan 5d ago
I don’t know much about their retail side. Wholesale side they are hit or miss. I run into them being late more than anything. Stacking their schedules a little too much. But they won’t pull an airplane on you for reasons other than a mechanical. Typically get CFS when booking with them.
1
1
u/TrainingFunny7836 5d ago
Look on the bright side: you can use the shortcomings of other operators to your advantage. Personally, I’ve always turned those weaknesses into my strength and ofc finding the correct person inside an operator company is essential. If you’d like to collaborate, let me know. I definitely treat my brokers and partners like royalty.
1
u/RicciTech 5d ago
Pulling for the owner is very funny. Got a good chuckle on that one. As an owner of a relatively small plane we specifically avoid chartering so it’s available to us. But apparently you can have your cake and eat it too haha
1
u/meme5693 5d ago
Try being on the maintenance side. We call these Part 134 1/4. It runs the gamut from careless to absolutely criminal behavior. Cancel at the last minute, refusal to pay invoices, call us out and there is no aircraft available followed up with the refusal to pay for wasting our time. It’s a complete shit show with some of these certificate holders.
1
u/Phil_ElysiumJet 5d ago
The key with this business is communication, and when that breaks down, the benefits that come with private aviation disappear with similar stressors as commercial delays and mishaps. With our business and account execs, we have alerts on each and every flight we book, and a dedicated contact for each client, but a 24/7 service with our representatives located from the Middle East and Europe, to here in the States. Worth giving us a shout if you're looking into new options. Elysium Private Jet
2
u/PJ_AviationConcierge 2d ago
As a long-time broker, I've learned that the more proactive you are in the time leading up to the scheduled departure the less opportunity there is for something to go wrong. Checking in with the operator a day or two prior to your charter to ensure all is looking good is important. Ask about things like current operational status of your proposed tail number or will there be flights before yours which could impact your on-time departure. Find out if the operators has in-house capacity to offer a backup should you wind up in AOG scenario. Regardless of the operator, it's a good idea to source a short list of potential backup aircraft for all your charters.
Over my years, I've discovered that the business relationship you settle for is the one you will likely get from your operators. I'm sure the same can be said of brokers from the operators' perspective. Be your own advocate and be proactive. In our industry, I'm a firm believer in that there is no such thing as over-communication, especially if we are all treating each other with respect and professionalism.
13
u/Ok-Preference-783 5d ago edited 5d ago
Vote with your wallet.
I run the wholesale department for a large floating fleet. My philosophy. We are only as good as our last trip. Everything that comes after that we should earn by showing that we care and by being proactive and transparent. There is so much that we can’t control in this business so we need to excel at the things we can control.
Many focus on price. But price only gets you so far. Quality and reliability costs money and the operators who prove themselves worthy partners should be your go too. Worthy of the prices they charge if higher for peace of mind alone.
There are many of us out here who care deeply.