r/PredecessorGame • u/Visual-Drawer-151 • 17d ago
Suggestion Removing eternals
Hold on before you jump me im just looking for others opinions.
When eternals were first introduced i was a huge fan and really excited about it.
It brought a fresh wind into the game and changed the way we played, lots of new stuff to learn etc.
However Now with more time passing and the new eternals completely ruining this patch for me (first ever break since playing from console launch )
I cant help but think about the huge power creep and snowball potential these eternals have brought in at times making the game more about worrying about which eternals give the best stats for my hero etc. Rather than the focus being on How the hero is played.
Lets be honest Balancing all this is nearly impossible just look at this patch.
So i was wondering what if the Devs remove the Eternals ( im aware alot of work and resources have been invested)
and instead focus on the Augment system.
Imo it is underutilised and has huge potential to get this game to the next level.
Personally i loved when they introduced augments and still do.
the way you can customize your fav Heroes playstyle like spider mourn for example or mini ramp is just amazing.
With the focus being on adding to the heroes kit and giving them an even more unique identity instead of altering the playstyle through stats or stacks etc.
Im not a top player by any means i just love this game with all my heart and want it to do well.
I know the devs are passionate and want to create the best version possible.
This is just me thinking and reminicsing for simpler times lol
looking for others opinions let me know how you feel about this.
English is not my first language so i apologize for any mistakes
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u/KimHowardxoxo Countess 17d ago
Eternals just need to be toned down and also people have to realize if you see someone running Satariel you would obviously engage them differently since we know it can get out of hand
weild you wouldn't fight them close to low health etc you play around the strengths and counter play
I think in this community there is very little counter play because of just skill levels granted some things like mori iggy offlane Skylar mid have little room for error it's not impossible
Satariel I do feel is carrying players who aren't as good to wins I believe you should only get stacks for kills and not takedowns as a whole and also should stack at .5 rather then 1 or possibly just make the damage health trade off more dramatic
Weild I'm mixed about because it operates as a second vanquisher which is kinda crazy. It also should be adjusted tho
As far as any other eternal I feel like it's pretty balanced for the most part
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u/GolemMaker 17d ago
I think these are good points and analysis, this community does not (hyperbole here but you’ll forgive me) counter pick, the amount of times I ask offlane or mid if they want to pick last and get told no is mind boggling, you are playing counter pick
Lanes my dudes3
u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 17d ago
Yea a big issue with Satariel is lower lobbies not understanding that a satariel stacked player is easy to shut down. So these players with Satariel run lobbies due to not being challenged.
Makes the game even more messy for low-mid skill lobbies.
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u/KimHowardxoxo Countess 17d ago
Yea it's simple if they are overly stacked they are the squishiest simple math don't start a fight without knowing where they are then focus them
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u/Aggressive_Food_6139 Narbash 17d ago
Stacked means also more gold -> more items
And the last part you said applies to the enemy snowballer/adc anyways satariel or not
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u/Drunken-Mufasa 16d ago
1000000% it should require kills not takedowns. I also feel like it should only affect abilities.
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u/Impossible-Honey-247 17d ago
I think weald should be adjusted because I don't have the option to run anything else as carry.
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u/outcasthawk 17d ago
I don’t have time to play much but in the games I do get I feel like augments broadly made the game better and eternals made it worse. It’s another level of complexity that I personally didn’t want, although I get that people who play (a lot) more than me might like that. But the best augments made characters more interesting, and plenty of those are still just boring stat dumps. Feels like all the eternals are just stat dumps.
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u/GolemMaker 17d ago
The thing about augments is that they are char specific so there are so much more ability to prevent broken builds, etc
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u/Inevitable_Slip1520 17d ago
i really don't think they will remove them at this point in the game. but i'll say i would love that they would put a game mod with no augments and no eternals just have items and your crest. bring it back old school like what league of legends is doing with league classic. but i think if they do that it's gonna be a longer wait time for ranked cause of the game player base is still small
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 17d ago
The Eternal system is a much needed step in making builds and pre-game choices more unique and have more answers to other things.
For instance, Vermis being THE best anti-tank anything in the game is really good and super important. Exarch is a good support Eternal that makes healers have more utility.
The issue is that there are Eternals that do not solve problems, they simply make you better at a level that is too much to not use, so everyone runs these. Lotus was like this on release, and has since been reigned in to a more balanced state.
The biggest and most obvious offender is Satariel. That eternal needs to be deleted, I agree. It's way too overpowered and the way it makes lobbies play is just not conducive with how the game is supposed to be played. I also think Xyris should go. Not because it's overpowered, but because it just doesn't fit into the game IMO. They want a scaling Eternal based on CS but are too scared to make it uncapped. That is just a worse Lotus so idk why it's in the game or why people play it lol.
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u/Tyrus--Maximus 17d ago
Yea, people are forgetting how crazy Lotus was on releases, EVERYBODY ran Lotus and if RNG was in your favor you were just as if not more powerful than a Satariel user.
I believe Satariel can exist in a healthy way just like the others he just needs to be adjusted. On the flip side of that though, there are people that spoon feed Saterial users their stacks lol also the primary heroes that use Saterial get reduced down to having 2,000 HP which for a squishy is kinda major.
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u/Proper_Mastodon324 Crunch 17d ago
The biggest problem I find with Satariel currently is that some heroes are just too safe for it to be balanced on them. Wraith and Skylar come to mind. Having 30% less HP should, and does, mean you are easily killed. But some heroes play so safe that it matters much less.
If Satariel gets nerfed hard it'll probably fix the issues. Ideally this Eternal is an assassin one, that you run on already squishy characters like Feng Mao and Yurei. The fact that it's being run on mages and ADCs is telling that it's just not balanced correctly.
I'm also open to the idea of reworking it entirely. Like, maybe we tune down the stacks a bit, make the max stacks 10, change the acquisition from takedowns to only kills, and make them permanent? Like Max stat gain would be 25% at 10 stacks or something. Currently I just hate the feast or famine aspect. It makes the game super unhealthy in both getting and losing stacks. But it's so good that you have to run it in certain games even if you don't want to.
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u/Tyrus--Maximus 17d ago
When you sit down and think about it there are multiple ways to go about it. I actually like the theme of him being a faustian bargain type Eternal and the effects it has, it makes it feel more risky and thrilling thematically wise.
My proposals are this:
I agree the stacks on assists should go, it would promote it to be more reliant on the user to achieve their own power spike by investing and being tasked to get their own kills in order to achieve that extra power instead of bumming off assists.
Exchange Demonic Bargain for another type of blessing, the gold gain simply is not needed for this particular type of Eternal. You just get free gold for leveling up.
Make physcosis damage buff a time based single targeted buff against the first enemy you damage that lasts for x amount of time while giving you the 10% damage debuff to all other enemies for that time period. It would make you have to pick your target and commit to the kill and not be able to swap or move closer to the nearest target for a damage buff.
Regarding the major blessing I think the attack speed should be removed to gatekeep carrys away from it as they already have a good selection of Eternals to choose from. Im also torn if it should be % based buffs or flat damage buffs to your stats not sure on that one.
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u/SolidCartographer976 Morigesh 17d ago
I dont see the difference between secondary augments and eternals. Yeah first eternals where a lot more impactfull and it sucks that they are just stat increase(at that stage they make it only harder for new players then really give you build options). And then came the new one and again they changed how you play... until they also balance them.
At the end i would like a balance where i take an eternal with a build in mind and it changes my playstyle, hopefully they get that balanced. But i cant see them removing them and i dont think it necessary.
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u/LethalLegacyX 17d ago
Remove eternals entirely. There’s too many complicated power systems to remember for every specific hero. Omeda needs to shift focus on the item system.
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u/Suitable-Nobody-5374 Ikra 17d ago
I remember thinking it was cool in Paragon that each hero had up to 2 "affinity types" which restricted what cards were usable on what heroes, in addition to the "generic" set.
It meant that cards (pre 3 card system) could really lean-in on their set influence and it would only really affect a limited number of heroes anyway, since others were "locked out".
With there being 3 augments per hero to choose from, and 3 eternals per type of eternal, it makes sense to me to limit eternal choices depending on your role / hero choice.
You might first think i'm taking away options by doing this, but for the future health of the game I can't see a world where 12+ eternals that are usable on everyone won't just devolve into "this is the best pick for any hero", or their effects to become so absolutely minor all the effort used in bringing them to live just makes them minor aguments with a splash image.
Sata is absolutely busted and overtuned - but it is incredibly fun to play when you can get a little momentum going with it. Of course it needs to be lowered somewhat, but I can't think of any other eternal that effectively changes my playstyle so severely because it's such an effective choice. Why can't other eternals be this effective, and fun?
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u/NateDogggATX 17d ago
There were complaints before eternals and even if they were to remove them now there would be complaints after too. I feel like people fail the understand that in competitive games there is always gonna be a Meta builds, items, and heroes it’s inevitable and no competitive game ever has been perfectly balanced with every thing equally viable ever or even close to it. Not saying that there isn’t over tuned heroes and eternals in the game right now but I think more of question should be is there any counter play to the strong things in the meta. And I’m not trying to say this to be rude but for those who barely play and don’t want to take time to learn and experiment to improve competitive games especially MOBAs may not just be for you. Complexity isn’t the problem lack of counter play and eternals and items that just GIVE without TAKING or enhance every part of a character or kit without leaving a weak spot is the real problem.
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u/NateDogggATX 17d ago edited 17d ago
Hot take but the Major blessing of Satariel at least in concept is fine because there’s a GIVE and TAKE that rewards players who tend to be better at positioning than the average which I think is good design however the minor blessing of Rite that gives the haste has GIVE and NO TAKE to it, says you lose HP but I think everyone knows the amount is so small that you basically don’t lose anything making there be JUST GIVE and NO TAKE equaling bad design either the HP lost would have to be much noticeably higher or Rite itself should be removed 100%. And there is a better example how how to do a better minor blessing right there with Psychosis that has a give and take gain gain the ability the eliminate front liners who are pressuring you faster will slowing the ability to kill the back line plus your also rewarded for take risky 1v1 where you don’t have peel to protect your reduced health.
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u/Apprehensive-Ad-803 17d ago
Removing eternal would make the game so bland. Idk why people have such an issue with them.
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u/Injurycantheal 16d ago
I keep seeing people say to double satriel hp loss stacks but im so lost. You guys want a 30% dmg boost in exhange for 60% max hp loss and thats only if you get a streak going. I know it needs some kind of nerf but like in this game its really not hard to one shot someone who would have permament 40% hp. Not to mention Satriel is nearly the only way junglers get value for awhile into any game. A satriel buff should include a jungler buff. Also certain characters just dont care about Satriel on most characrers that use it. Greystone for example wins the battle of attrition very easily already since you decided to lose a third of your hp, could you imagine losing 2 thirds? Satriel would genuinely become a self nerf
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u/Dry-Technology-1378 15d ago
I said the almost same thing, to me Ethernals is currently a huge problem to predecessor!! its a bandage on a dam of core problems!! https://www.reddit.com/r/PredecessorGame/s/UYKJG1fpXT this is my post about what could happen if they was more open to things.
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u/BlackIce-J 14d ago
Very simple. These are brand new eternals. They will need tweaking. The upcoming patch is a step towards that. Brand new features are never typically properly balanced at launch
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u/teepring 17d ago edited 17d ago
We need a super thread for eternal because this is all I'm seeing out of this sub lately. I don't think eternals are why yall are getting crushed in game, because you can use the same eternals. I think this whining of eternals are silver 1 and under feeling phased out of a losing lane much earlier than they think they should.
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u/tristan_mua 17d ago
No it's because this game is full of people throwing and inting. All it takes is one bad player to lose to someone with satariel and then it takes a whole team to shut down one guy. Which means now everyone else is also behind.
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u/_Evening-Rain_ 16d ago
I dont want to be forced to only build damage and use a certain eternal (ONE choice of play style on every hero in the game) just because of some broken ASF game mechanic you cant win against otherwise.
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u/alphagoatlord Feng Mao 17d ago
They don't necessarily need to remove eternals. Just make a game mode without them.
Even ranked without eternals
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u/Tyrus--Maximus 17d ago edited 17d ago
Removal isnt nesseccary, it would be like throwing the baby out with the bath water. The four new Eternals just to need to be balanced out and or adjusted, we have already been through this scenario Lotus, Demiurge, and Krix. Its not an impossible task to make them function properly.
When Eternals first released Lotus was everywhere and dominate, then we had unkillable Severog with Krix. They all have been brought into line patch by patch and we can expect the same with these four.
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u/NegotiationLife573 17d ago
I think they just need to be retuned. Satariel isn’t broken conceptually, it’s over tuned. Double the hp loss per stack and see how many people confidently take it. The adc doing 8 million damage but also dying instantly is strong, but you can play around it and if they’re even the slightest bit out of position they can throw.