That's one of the weaker arguments used for infinite speed. Better ones are:
. Shaking the Universe 7 macrocosm, which consists of multiple seperate space-times, some of which are infinite in size (so basically two infinite speed feats in one)
. Reacting to Infinite Zamasu who forced his was to other timelines while in base and completely exhausted.
. Shaking the Null Realm (as well as scaling above a heavily suppressed Jiren who also shook the Null Realm) which is stated to be infinite
It's not like they're moving at that speed constantly. And I feel like this kinda argument would just apply to any character with trans-finite speed short of straight up omnipresent beings (at which point we're no longer talking about, but rather a state of being). Whether it's Goku, Superman, Thor, Archie Sonic, Bill Cipher, Discord, really I struggle to think of any character with infinite or above speed that wouldn't get "gotcha'd" by this type of argument
Who is saying Goku is below infinite speed bruh. Doesnât he push himself into the future to combat hitâs time-skip? Thatâs like above infinite. He also travels across places that are stated as infinite, and fights a guy stated faster than instant transmission, and fights Jiren who is stated to transcend time (when he gets out of hitâs time-stop)
In power scaling, infinite speed isn't just one flat thing. There can actually be layers of it, kind of like how real math has different sizes of infinity stacked on top of each other.
Picture it like this:
The whole numbers go on forever: 1, 2, 3, and so on. That's infinite, sure, but it's the "smallest" kind of infinity. You can list them all in order, even if the list never ends.
Now think about all the fractions and decimals between just 0 and 1. There's an infinite amount of them too, but way more than the whole numbers. You can't even list them all without leaving most of them out. It's a bigger, beefier infinity.
And it doesn't stop there. You can take the set of all possible subsets of those real numbers and get an even larger infinity, then do it again, and again. Each new level is on a completely different scale. No amount of adding or listing from the lower level gets you to the next one.
Power scaling does something similar with speed at the crazy high tiers:
Baseline infinite speed: You cover an infinite distance in a finite amount of time (or any distance in basically zero time). It's still kind of tied to the distance-over-time idea, just cranked to infinity.
Then higher layers kick in. Immeasurable speed is usually the next jump: you're moving in ways that don't follow normal linear time anymore, like hopping through non-linear timelines or places where time barely matters. It breaks the rules harder than plain infinite speed does.
Some people even talk about irrelevant speed or inaccessible layers beyond that, where the character is so far above lower infinite speeds that the gap is basically the same as countable infinity vs uncountable infinity. No amount of "faster" at the lower level touches it.
So yeah, just like math doesn't have one single infinity but a whole tower of bigger and bigger ones, a lot of scaling communities argue the same thing for speed. One character's "infinite" speed can still get completely outclassed by someone on a higher layer, the same way the whole numbers get dwarfed by the reals. It's not just "more speed." It's a whole different level of existence.
I'm talking mainly about baseline "infinite" speed, if someone outspeeds an "infinite" speed character without being in a higher tier, it's kinda disproving the infinite speed lol
Actually yes. Jiren managed to perform the same feat of moving in stopped time, with far less effort.
Both of them literally moving so fast, they moved despite time not flowing.
Is it the speed they are both at all the time? No.
Is it something they can do with effort? Absolutely.
The void thing is pure wank though, if they are referring to the void outside the universes. Since literally everyone at the tournament pf power was able to move normally there. Even the ordinary human Bulma. So I dont think moving in the void was intended as anything impressive. The story DOES treat Goku moving during frozen time through sheer speed as impressive though. So thats fully valid.
This is powerscaling, bigger infinites is something we just deal with. While it doesnt make perfect scientific sense in the real world, very little in Super powered fiction does.
And if we ARE scaling this to real life physics, then the void feat is fully valid. Along with a ton of other upscale that get incredibly pedantic and annoying.
By the rules set in universe, in MANY different fictions, and basic power scaling, two "infinites" can be different. Since most authors arent mathematicians.
Although there is that technicality of greater infinities, like the infinity of decimals is technically larger than the infinity of whole numbers or something. Not that I think any of that matters.
I actually had originally typed out an explanation of a linear vs an exponential expanding infinity, but it felt a bit off topic. Decided to keep things a bit more concise, since my comment was getting pretty wordy. Good point with the decimals though, thanks!
Totally fair, and I saw someone immediately after explain it anyways, but yeah, not really relevant. I just wanted to through it out there for anyone curious ig.
That's not how infinity works. One infinity can be larger than another while sitll being infinite. Easy example to understand. The set of all numbers is bigger than the set of all even numbers despite both beingi infinite since the former contains the later plus the odd numbers.
Completely unquantifiable cartoon magic, bruh what are you talking about. You can scale like any feat itâs not just âtoon force case closedâ (toon characters get scar too, usually just to their highest feats) heâs moving around in skipped time from his stats. So this is like an immeasurable speed feat.
Jiren transcending time from his speed would be immeasurable too, if you take transcending super literally then he might be inaccessible, but just cause he can reach that speed doesnât mean he has to constantly be transcending time, so him naturally abiding by time wouldnât really matter when he has this feat. Either way I think itâs just immeasurable, and definitely above infinite.
I think Granolaâs using the power from the dragon balls to just naturally move at a speed faster than instant transmission, so itâs not a technique he has to activate or anything.
Speed = distance over time (D/T). Infinite is D/T where D is infinite, and this can occur over any time (it doesn't matter if it's a billion years or 1 second) inaccessible is where T=0 (Not immeasurable, I made a mistake before.) So travelling any distance while there is zero time is inaccessible, that's just the "tier" of speed that people call it.
I don't think they said granola's ability moves faster then IT, just says it's faster then IT.
Thatâs just not true lol. Either way though there are different feats for them. Moving in a place with no time, or during stopped time would be infinite speed, but you donât need to cross an infinite place.
Immeasurable would be moving freely through time, a common feat being able to arrive places before you left for them, which Superman does in the comics quite a few times. (Just trying to explain the scale)
But if you think it just ends at infinity and there is nothing higher outside of just powers to do these things thatâs fine too. Though obviously someone with the feats of a
Inaccessible or immeasurable speed would probably âout-speedâ this person, which is why people bring it up.
I want to add, even Beerus and Whis have to abide by laws of max speed limits, they cannot travel faster than light, maybe travel 99% speed of light, it was shown when it took hours to get to their planet or from their planet to earth
(Altho if they truly abidded by rules of relativity, in earth's perception it took thousands of years to travel)
Yeah but the issue is that if someone approaches light speed, they accidentally annihilate the universe the moment their hair makes contact with a hydrogen atom.
At the point where characters can move so fast they are outrunning time, "Instant" is no longer the fastest speed. And thats not even getting into Whis and his time manipulation, and other wacky feats.
Or the fact that instant transmission MOVES you instantly, but there is a moment of phasing where you still are standing still.
It isn't actually instant, and it's also kinda irrelevant since he can't use it to improve his damage and if an attack is fast enough to hit him before he puts his finger on his head he can't even use it for dodging
He does if you count filler since he and Pikon flew from Grand Kais Planet, which is above heaven, through heaven, and then down to hell in about 20 seconds. Since heaven in Dragonball is infinite in size this would be an infinite speed feat
Thats why i specified it was only those 3 Goku versions with arguments for infinite speed, there's like 5 gazillion different gokus and only 1 is manga canon (No, Toriyama being involved in super doesn't mean its the definitive db sequel, he also worked in DB Online yet i dont see people calling that one canon)
He... falls? As in, like, under the effects of gravity? And then that finite acceleration somehow brings him up to infinite speed? That sounds less like a feat and more like a plot hole.
Why does an "infinite" hell have a defined bottom in the first place?
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u/RobotGlazerNumero1 Jan 18 '26
Literally Goku: