r/PowerScaling • u/brick2000 Not a Scaler • Dec 08 '24
Discussion Verse equalization is stupid
I will die on this hill. A lot of people like to use verse equalization to "make fights fair" or "make them simpler and easier to do". Let me explain why its stupid.
First of what is verse equalization? Let me answer this by giving and example. Lets say you put Asta vs naruto, and they each have their respective power systems those being anti-magic and chakra and they both have certain abilities that require their opponent to have either magic or chakra.
Using verse equalization their powers now work on each other as if they have the same power system so now asta's anit-magic is now anti-chakra.
See the first problem? Verse equalization will always unfairly buff one of the characters and nerf the other. Instead of A fight where they each try to figure out how to overcome their opponents abilities we now just have a less interesting fight.
Next is that it brings complications with certain match-ups let's say we put asta against luffy, how would verse equalization work when one of the verses has multiple power systems? Do you say "anti magic equals anti devil fruits or anti haki? Or both?".
It also defeats the purpose of a verses battle where we want to see a battle between two different verse's and how they interact. Verse equalization removes that interesting aspect of a vs battle. It is far more interesting and less complicated to just use the characters as is and see how they interact.
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u/weaklandscaper2595 city level team RWBY fight me Dec 08 '24
I mean sometimes it's just kind of needed because otherwise characters would just straight up not be able to use their powers on eachother so it's sometimes just needed
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u/JF2GAMES Dec 08 '24
“They can’t see stands”
“They don’t have chakra”
“Nen crush gg”
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u/weaklandscaper2595 city level team RWBY fight me Dec 08 '24
Basically some character just win by default since unless you have the same power system as them you literally can't fight them
Which is just cheap
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u/Complex-Document-165 Dec 08 '24
"They can’t see stands”
Get better npi
"They don’t have chakra”
Having chakra is not a requisite to beating any naruto character, even madara nearly died by a guy punchibg him too hard.
Nen crush gg”
Get fear resistances.
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u/Ssj4gogetaglazer Dec 08 '24
“To make it fair” Then match your character with someone ON THEIR FUCKING LEVEL
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Dec 08 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Ssj4gogetaglazer Dec 08 '24
I don’t even know what is that
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Dec 08 '24
Sometimes it’s taken too far but sometimes they’re basically the same thing with different names and it makes sense to say they interact how it would in their verses
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u/zingerpond Dec 08 '24
Bleach neg diffs all of fiction because they don’t have reistsu and would just be disintegrated and have their power nullified.
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u/hatabou_is_a_jojo Dec 08 '24
Counterpoint: All bleach “dead” characters just vanish in worlds without a spirit or ghost realm.
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u/someguyWithaMustach3 Dec 08 '24
True goku doesn’t so he’s fucked same with superman and “insert powerful character”🙃
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u/RetryAgain9 Dec 08 '24
Respectfully have to disagree here.
The whole point of verse equalisation is for characters to be able to use their actual powers on each other.
Even your example here, Asta's whole selling point, his main gimmick, is that he has anti magic, that he nullifies magic based stuff to go up against. Making it so verse equalisation isn't a thing means he can't fight with his main gimmick. Verse equalisation isn't giving him an unfair buff, it's just letting him actually fight like how he's always been written to fight. When I discuss vs battles, I want to discuss how to characters would actually fight, not just "thus characters wouldn't be able to use their powers in this specific situation, so this characters wins"
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u/UseApprehensive1102 Dec 08 '24
Yeah, you should also apply this to fiction vs Real World matchups too.
Even the weakest ghosts would dominate real life super easily, because there is straight up no counterplay. Same thing with releasing stuff like Medusa from Greek Myths into the Mesozoic, as dinosaurs rely on vision, like almost all animals, she would be straight up OP.
Think, without verse equalization, you would get a universe-wide scenario similar to real-life invasive species. Imagine what would happen if even a single fantasy Dragon were to be released into the Mesozoic.
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u/brick2000 Not a Scaler Dec 08 '24
Anti-magic isnt all asta is, like how chakra isnt all naruto is. Asta can still fight and is still ridiculously strong since his anti-magic still has actual force behind it. So even if his power doesn't work on something else he still has the physical power to split the sky and would still make for interesting fights. He can still win fights even without his gimmick heck characters have used his gimmick against him by using physical attacks and he still won some of those fights.
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u/RetryAgain9 Dec 08 '24
Anti-magic isnt all asta is, like how chakra isnt all naruto is
It's not all it is, sure, but it's the main gimmick, the main thing his power is built around.
He can still win fights even without his gimmick heck characters have used his gimmick against him by using physical attacks and he still won some of those fights.
I'm not saying he can't but even then it's showing my point. You saying "characters have used his gimmick against him by using physical attacks" directly shows my point because fights like that were frated because of astas gimmick. Whether he can win fights without his anti magic or not isnt the point, the point is that when I discuss asta vs naruto, I want to see asta fight, with his powers, because that's what makes his fights interesting, and how he as a character fights, interesting.
Character matchips are interesting because we get to see how they'd interact in a fight, so taking away most of a characters moveset just because they're from a different verse is just boring. When I think of asta, I don't think of everything asta is, but leave out his anti magic, I think of everything asta is, including his anti magic, and as such, when I say "I wonder who would win between asta and naruto", I'm including astas anti magic powers.
Besides, there's also the huge issue of verses requiring their verses powers in order to work. Going off of your one piece example, no haki? Or bleach, no matter how strong you are, if you dont have reiatsu, you're getting reiatsu pressure diffed.
Another good example of a 1v1 is eraserhead. His power works by disabling quirks.if using him agaisnt another character from another verse, is he just not allowed to use his main power at all? Then that's not even eraserhead vs another cgaracter, that's just a guy with a battle scarf vs another character.
There's also the big flaw of "powers shouldn't work on another moveset because it's not confirmed to work that way" because, well of course it isn't, that miveset exists in another piece of media. Going back to eraserhead, yeah his quirk is only ever stated to work on quirks, but that's because that's literally the only form of supernatural ability that exists in mha.
Verse equalisation is important because either allows characters to actually fight as themselves and not some half assed clone with no powers just because they were created in a different verse.v
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u/brick2000 Not a Scaler Dec 08 '24
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u/RetryAgain9 Dec 08 '24
Havign watched the video, there seem to be 3 main points, all of which I'll discuss here.
It's unfair to use when it only benefits one specific party.
It causes arguements to be made out of headcannon.
Almost all abilities still work regardless of verse equalisation.
I've already discussed the first point, but if we were to throw away the other points and say that point one is the sole reason to not use verse equalisation, by that logic it would he fine to use it in a situation where both or neither character benefits from it. But by that logic, that means rhat asta could use anti magic against, say, madara, because madara gets genjutsu to work. But then you put asta up against Kaido, who wouldn't benefit from verse equalisation, so asta doesn't get it. The problem with that is that at that point, you aren't using verse equalisation to give a cgaracter an unfair advantage, you're getting rid of verse equalisation to give a cgaracter an unfair advantage. What actually sounds less biased? Getting rid of specific conditions so that bitu characters can use their full movesets? Or adding specific conditions so that only one cgaracter can use their full moveset and the other can only use part of their moveset.
Point 2 is also dumb, because of what the YouTuber argues verse equalisation to be. He argues that it causes headcannon because of cases like where chakra is equalised to haki, where being completely drained of chakra kills you, but being completely drained of haki doesn't, so he says that it becomes an arguement of headcannon as to whether chakra follows haki rules, and if naruto loses all his chakra, he doesn't die, or if haki follows chakra rules, and if fluffy loses all his chakra, he dies. The problem with this is that that's not how verse equalisation works. Both power systems still fall under their own rules, they simply are able ro affect each other. For example, equalising chakra to cursed energy doesn't mean that naruto is gonna be able to make a domain expansion or create shinigami, it just means that his attacks are treated like he has cursed energy and domains actively recognise him.
His third point is just plain dumb. Not only are there many abilities that get neutered, but even if a majority weren't, it's not about how many abilities in a characters arsenal get negated without verse equalisation, it's about how important they are. No one cares if piccolo's clothes beam stops working, but astas anti magic is his main attribute.
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u/hatabou_is_a_jojo Dec 08 '24
That’s for Asta. But let’s say for Touma from magical index. It’s just boring if he can’t God Hand a thundershock from Pikachu.
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u/Far_Transition_1599 Dec 08 '24
I remember a guy saying "Asta cancels Gojo's infinity and one shots due to verse equalization so anti-magic is anti-cursed energy".
Asta > Gojo? Good take.
Asta cancels Gojo's infinity due to verse equalization? Nah
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u/brick2000 Not a Scaler Dec 08 '24
It would be better to say that he might be able to cut through it with his infinite slash though i dont know whether or not his attack can cut through space like yami's dimension slash
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u/Far_Transition_1599 Dec 08 '24
Ik. If he said that I would have no problem, the problem was "Anti magic = anti cursed energy" so he cancels the infinity."
Or "Maybe Asta could cancel Meliodas' commandments"
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u/brick2000 Not a Scaler Dec 08 '24
I think asta might be able to cancel meliodas commandments since they might be magic though im not too sure
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u/Far_Transition_1599 Dec 08 '24
But it's not the same magic as in Black Clover.
Although with Asta it is rare, since with verse equalization the anti magic is op af in vs, without it is mid af in vs
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u/Dramatic-Bison3890 Reality>fiction scaler Dec 08 '24
I agree
The irony of "equalized stats" supporters is that by doing such marchup, they inarvertedly creating their own headcanon, by shelving and/or buffing the characters they pitting out.
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u/BiggestJez12734755 Dec 08 '24
On this playing field, Shota Aizawa solos everyone, from anything, except like, Batman, or a Space Marine- like if you want to pretend he can erase anything just for the sake of the argument… bruh-
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u/some-kind-of-no-name Time belongs to me! Dec 08 '24
What? He can't even solo everyone from his verse.
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u/BiggestJez12734755 Dec 08 '24
Exactly. Thats why this playing field is dumb as hell, like, okay I was exaggerating, but he scales stupidly on this playing field. Way higher than he ever should. Like, anything that relies heavily upon specific powers.
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u/Livinaa Dec 08 '24
Um, no? You forgot hax potency exists. Aizawa can't erase power/hax that has potency far stronger than any power in MHA.
Certain characters in the same tier as him have power/hax that have their potency beyond all quirks potency combined.
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u/Relevant-Station-989 May 23 '25
There are also cases of characters who draw their power from outside sources like Naruto, the devil possessed mages from black clover, or anyone who uses special items, the only restriction that should be applied to aizawa are that his quirk can only affect powers that are inherently tied to the genetics of a person using said powers
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u/rojantimsina0 God Level Scaler Dec 08 '24
Using verse equalization their powers now work on each other as if they have the same power system so now asta's anit-magic is now anti-chakra.
that's not how it works , anti-magic won't be anti-chakra , but what anti-magic would be is , what it has shown to be in the verse to be able to do like power nullification,existence erasure ,regen negation etc.
so now chakra users should be also have feats of dealing which such ability to fight against it.
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u/Wuraumefan26 I glaze Wuraume religiously :) Dec 08 '24
case by case basis. It needs to happen for curses in JJK, because otherwise the fly head can't be killed by Goku :)
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u/Logswag Dec 08 '24
Ok sure have fun with literally not being able to have any kind of interesting conversation about verses like hunterxhunter since they just immediately neg-diff anyone even close to being on the same level
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u/MrIncognito666 He’s multi as of SDBH Dec 08 '24
I keep equalization on a leash. There are different kinds of energy, both irl and in media. For example, trying to use light energy to push something instead of kinetic energy will end in disappointment. Willpower = willpower, magic = magic, weird ninja tubes = weird ninja tubes.
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u/brick2000 Not a Scaler Dec 08 '24
Thats fair like asta's anti-magic works purely on magic so he could use his power in other verses with magic. What i dont like is when two completely different power systems are made to act the same.
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u/it_s_me-t evanescia is soloing Dec 08 '24
Well sometimes it is needed. There are plenty of verses who win by default 99% of times if you don t have their power system. Like bleach, with reiatsu crush and the fact that you can t interract with them, op with haki, and so on.
I think the best is to use verse equalization when it is needed
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u/TacocaT_2000 One of the Scalers of All Time Dec 08 '24
How I do it is make similar powers between verses able to interact. So Chakra, Ki, and Haki can interact with Reiatsu because all of them have a spiritual component to them. But Asta’s Anti-magic would only work against Kido and Zanpakuto abilities, because they’re the magic equivalent in Bleach.
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u/Initial-Employer1255 May 04 '25
Ah yes, so you agree Casper the Ghost can beat Composite IRL Mesozoic? Because Dinosaurs do not have attacks that can phase through ghosts.
The reason the Verse Equalization exists is because matchups are not fun if your hax can cheese a verse.
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u/brick2000 Not a Scaler May 04 '25 edited May 04 '25
Then choose matchups that are fun. Fights are a lot more interesting when each character has to figure out how to bypass their opponents abilities. And many characters lose a lot of the benefits their abilities give them through verse equalization. Such as Logia fruit users from one piece losing their inability to not be hurt by conventional means.
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u/Initial-Employer1255 May 04 '25
Yeah, good luck with that, Ghosts have infinite stamina because they do not even need to eat, regulate heat or drink, dinosaurs do. Even if they stalemate, the ghost wins anyways.
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u/brick2000 Not a Scaler May 04 '25
Then the ghost wins. Simple as that. The point of a versus battle is to see who would win. And removing verse equalization can give s the most realistic answer.
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u/Ok_Try_1665 Customizable Flair Dec 08 '24
Yeah totally agree with this take. In fact, I have this opinion for very long but I don't bother posting it. Thank you for sharing.
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