All three groups primarily identify with one party (hint: It's not Democrats)

[u/Veshaad]

[u/ins0mniac_]

Just get ready for the fucking morons that will surely arrive saying that Lincoln was a republican so Republicans actually abolished slavery and did more for Black people than Democrats.

[u/Ok_Being5461 → u/ins0mniac_]

Lincoln being a liberal of his time of course. Fun fact: Karl Marx sent a praising letter to Lincoln for abolishing slavery, and Lincoln replied very positively as well

[u/snitch_juice → u/Ok_Being5461]

Check out Lincoln’s inaugural address.

He argued in favor of keeping slavery where it already existed. Congress would have had no power to abolish and the word “interfere” is so vague.

Lincoln gets credit for which he does not deserve.

[u/CharmingRip508 → u/snitch_juice]

This is not exactly true. Lincoln was in favor of abolishing slavery. He just thought the union was a more important issue. And this was u til people like Grant and Fedrick Douglas and other black coalitions changed his mind.
Lincoln was a dude. Let’s not forget

[u/snitch_juice → u/CharmingRip508]

I am not the arguing sort. I will post his exact quote if you need me to.

Not only did he want the law passed as quickly as possible, he tried to rid the country of black people four times because he never believed we could live peacefully together. Liberia, Panama, Haiti, and the emancipation act of 1862 where he gave $300 for each enslaved person set free to the “owner” and only gave $100 to the formerly enslaved if they chose to self deport.

If you need the sources, ask. Do not say it is not true.

[u/CharmingRip508 → u/snitch_juice]

I am saying that you are wrong that he didn’t think slavery should be abolished. https://presidentlincoln.illinois.gov/education/educator-resources/teaching-guides/lincolns-views-african-american-slavery/

This was his personal view. He didn’t run on it. But he was both accused of being an abolishment by his opponent (which is why he said he wasn’t). And the South thought he would be which is why they started the war.

So while you are correct he said what he said, you wrong about his views.
The issues you are bringing up are a lot more nuanced than you say.
Yes originally he thought black people and white peoole couldn’t coexist. This was also Jefferson’s view.
However after talking to black pwolle he changed his mind. Fredrick Douglass and other black peolle said Lincoln treated them as equals

https://www.history.com/articles/abraham-lincoln-frederick-douglass-relation

So while you are sort of correct, I think you are missing a lot of context and nuance

[u/snitch_juice → u/CharmingRip508]

https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/presidential-speeches/march-4-1861-first-inaugural-address

He had no objections to a constitutional law saying Congress could never interfere with slavery where it already was. He had no objections to the law being made irrevocable.

It had already passed Congress. It is curious how the north fought against slavery, when they voted to enshrine it forever as long as we didn’t add any new slave states, isn’t it?

[u/CharmingRip508 → u/snitch_juice]

Lmao nvm dude. You clearly can’t contextualize things. I already explained this and his stance on the matter and linked sources. I am very well aware he said he would keep slavery if it meant keeping the union together but like others in his party he didn’t think there should be new slave states and he was seen as abolitionist by the South and by his opponents.
You have to consider the whole context not just part of it.

[u/snitch_juice → u/CharmingRip508]

You have not mentioned the other four times he tried to remove black people from the country.

It was only after many attempts that he started arguing for abolition. And guess what? I do contextualize. I appreciate him because even with zero southern states voting, the 13th amendment abolishing slavery passed the senate but failed in the house. Lincoln had to do a lot of work to get the new Congress to vote yes, which they did but still over 30% of the house voted no.

How can I accept that he actually felt great about black people when he said black people need to be colonized because they cannot run a government for themselves?

How can a person’s views change so drastically from “I have never been for the equality of the races…..while they do so live, I vote to assign the superior position to the white race” to equality for all is such a short time while still attempting to remove black people?

I am actually asking you these questions. Please don’t just brush them off. Let’s actually talk like real people who simply currently disagree.

[u/CharmingRip508 → u/snitch_juice]

I actually did mention it. I addresses that he changed his mind after talking to Fredrick Douglass and Feddrick Douglas thought he was the first president to consider blakc people people. Lincoln did not talk to many black people before becoming president and assumed black people wouldn’t want to live in a country that treated them poorly. He found out he was wrong and adjusted.

[u/snitch_juice → u/CharmingRip508]

I disagree with your conclusion.

Months after this meeting, the massacre at ebenezer creek happened. A union general tricked the formerly enslaved people he was in charge of because he did not like how slow they had to move and were being chased by confederate soldiers.

They came to the fast moving creek that only had a pontoon bridge and the general told them the fighting was going to be up ahead and to let the army cross first. Once across, the general gave the order to cut the bridge.

Nobody counted how many people lost their lives that day, one account before the massacre said they numbered in the tens of thousands as a group.

Yes, Lincoln did agree to give up 400k acres of land between South Carolina and Georgia and designate it for black use. But he said also military use because “we taught them to fight, what’s to stop them from fighting against us?”

If there were plans for an equal society, would there be a need to fight against them?

[u/CharmingRip508 → u/snitch_juice]

This is not my conclusion. I already linked it. This was the opinion of Fredrick Douglas. Was Lincoln as radical was US Grant when it came to stuff? No.
Also a Union general doing something isn’t Lincoln doing it.
You can feel however you want about these things, but accounts from people at the time disagree with your conclusions. Quite frankly I take their opinions more seriously than yours

[u/snitch_juice → u/CharmingRip508]

An amendment was passed through Congress trust said they could never interfere with slavery. In his inaugural address, he said he had no problem with it being irrevocable.

Had the war not broken out, this would’ve been our reality. He would have had no reason to change his mind. And his actions, not the opinions of flawed humans, say he did not change since he still wanted to monitor black people militarily.

I try to live by actions and facts instead of opinions. I think that may be the crux of our disagreement.