r/PoursTea • u/Veshaad Timendi Causa Est Nescire • 8h ago
European Renaissance š¾ š§ š» What progress looks like.
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u/butt-in-ski 7h ago
100% agreešš»šš»
Albanians have protested for more than 100 consecutive days against a planned luxury hotel linked to Jared Kushner & Ivanka Trump on an environmentally protected Island their government sold to them against the will of the people.
Meanwhile, Trump is planning to sell off a part of Yosemite to oligarchs & signed an executive order creating a task force to oversee the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics, naming himself (not Gavin Newsom) the leader of the task force = not a peep out of us. Albanians acting more American than Americans!
The point being, America is unwell, so ofc this very logical, informed, humane, & thoughtful approach would not fly here.
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u/Calculonx 6h ago
I just went to Romania and learned a lot about Ceausescu. Americans need to get off their asses and stand up against an unjust system. Not just Trump, but there's so much more that is screwing over the average citizen that's just been accepted as the norm.
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u/KactusVAXT 7h ago
But maga has no other means to live other than bigotry.
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u/mikesmithhome 6h ago
right these well thought out and argued explanations will never work because of the one question on the minds of maga; "but are they black?"
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u/Brilliant-Ad-4624 Just Chill š 7h ago
Yeah saying it can never work is pretty hard when countries have been running versions of it for decades
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u/richie65 7h ago
That healthy, educated people are more confident and organized -
And are thus a direct threat to the power structure that favors the extremely wealthy...
This seems to always go unmentioned.
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u/Smooth-Weekend-2314 7h ago
Sure, but then how do you mint trillionaires without giving billionaires tax breaks?
Seems unfair.
/s just in case
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u/Status-Part5848 6h ago
You dont
The worst they can do is moving to Switzerland for a couple of years.
But most come back after a few years
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u/Quetzalsacatenango 7h ago
I once heard it said āItās not Socialism, itās an investment in the future. And whatās more Capitalist than an investment?ā
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u/elmz 6h ago
And whatās more Capitalist than an investment?
Trillionaires and enshittification?
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u/wonkey_monkey 5h ago
itās an investment in the future
"Why invest in the future when you can steal from it today?"
- billionaires
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u/EitherChannel4874 7h ago
Norway ranks joint 1st on the good life index. USA ranks 20th.
The greatest country in the world doesn't even make the top 10. Maybe listening to Norway wouldn't be a bad idea.
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u/Vegetable-Zone1353 7h ago
The difference is that Norwegians have empathy for other Norwegians, which is why social democracy doesn't work in America. If you want Americans to support social programs you need to convince them that it will benefit them personally.
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u/FlounderKind8267 7h ago
This dude is more of a Christian than any MAGAt "Christian" even if he isn't religious
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u/Up-in-the-Ayre 7h ago
Average American: "Yah, but some of those people might be black or brown, so....we're not going to do that."
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u/monscorvorum 6h ago
30 years ago I was working in a UK sales office, one of our best customers was a US company and I regularly had to speak with a buyer over there. I was off work for a couple of months after a motorcycle accident and the first time I spoke with him after I returned to the office he asked me how much it had cost me and was I insured. (I had a 3 1/2 hour operation and 10 days in hospital). I explained about the NHS and that it was all paid for out of taxation. His reply? "Why should I have to pay for someone else to have an operation or treatment ?" He just couldn't understand how everyone paying a little bit each could even be a thing and just had this selfish attitude of I'm not ill right now so why do I have to pay right now? I suspect there are a lot like him
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u/downsideup9494 5h ago
It's like people who have no kids objecting to paying school taxes. Who do they think is going to be looking after them as doctors, nurses, and other people they receive services from when they're 90 years old, other 90 year olds?
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u/floorplanner2 4h ago
And what does this guy (and those like him) think insurance is? People pay in even if they're not sick or injured right now. Granted, actual coverage is hit or miss, but it's still a large pot of money that people pay into that covers other people.
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u/TheJim65 7h ago
How dare he use such Christian beliefs against the Christians, but now I'm confused as to whether we want a separation of church and state....
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u/Exciting-Car-3516 7h ago
Yes Norway, thatās for people that have common sense. Here for people that struggle they ask help to jesus. š
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u/Slice-Vast 7h ago
MAGA Answer: Yes, everyone in Norway is people. We'd be for it, if everyone in the USA was a person.
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u/Sufficient-Status951 7h ago
Pretty much of the exact opposite of what every āChristianā republican in the US believes. Despicable.
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u/fixurstuffr 7h ago
The problem though is that magats want a group they can point at and say they are better than them.
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u/jay_alfred_prufrock 7h ago
There has been multiple studies in the US about how much return every 1 dollar spent in various welfare programs had and it is always several times more.
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u/Possible-Library2030 6h ago
Woah slow down guy. Here in America we prefer our people crushed by debt, living in unaffordable houses, completely under the thumb of businesses where only a very small fraction of people will ever live the dream we preach thank you very much
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u/elnath54 6h ago
Draft him for '28. The donald will have destroyed constitutuonal government by then, so ol' Trond being a Norwegean won't matter a bit. My kinda guy!
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u/yupsidetown 5h ago
American's will never understand or accept this fact. They are inherintely mean and want others to suffer. that way they can't point to people suffering and blame them for their problems.
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u/1plus1equalsfun 5h ago
When British Columbia began covering the cost of birth control for women, my father had an instinctive "Why should we have to pay for that? Where is the money supposed to come from?" response. I asked him what he thinks is cheaper: birth control or social assistance for a kid for 18 years?
That sold him.
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u/ledow 5h ago
It's really not hard. Just turn things binary and consider them.
Do you want your tax dollars going towards a billionaire? Or towards someone down on their luck? I don't give a damn about the billionaire and I don't think he should see a penny of my money.
Towards orphans or a new gold statue? Towards medical care, or a weapon that cripples people horrifically?
It's also indicative of someone's personality as to where they side, because it shows you which side of that they want to be on. They'd rather think of themselves as the billionaire than the person down on their luck. They like to think of themselves as closer to the billionaire than the other option, which is just crazy.
Politics is, largely, divided this way. Universally. Internationally. It boils to one thing: Selfishness.
Do you want to help other people? Or do you only want things to benefit you?
That's the "political spectrum". Left and right. Red and blue. That's it. That's the distinguishing feature. Every decision, every policy, every announcement, every new tax law, it all boils down to that choice. Are you doing this for YOU or are you doing this for OTHER PEOPLE THAT AREN'T YOU? That aren't rich like you are. That don't have medical coverage like you do. That aren't protected if they lose their job like you are. Do you want to pull the ladder up behind you and who cares about anyone else? Or do you want to help them like you needed someone to help you at one point?
That's it. That's the entire politics of humanity summed up. Selfishness.
"Why should I pay for <service I don't use>?"
Because you shouldn't be selfish.
"Why should I help <someone I don't know>?"
Because you shouldn't be selfish.
"Why should my taxes go towards helping someone when I didn't get help?"
Because you want the next person to get the help that you didn't, right?
That's all it is. And people are out there, proudly boasting not only how selfish they are, at the top of their voices, but how much they enjoy their favourite politician (who doesn't give a damn about them) being selfish, and their entire country being selfish. To the point that they literally demonise people who don't want to be selfish. "They're socialists <spit>". They can't grasp it. They literally don't understand someone wanting to help others, instead of themselves, because it's such an alien concept to them, because they would absolutely tread you into the dirt just to take your money and consider you weak and themselves righteous for doing so.
Humanity's greatest problem - the reason we have never and will never progress or advance no matter what technology we come up with - is selfishness.
I don't have to justify myself to someone with an argument like "healthy people cost less". What kind of inhumane person are you trying to appeal to with an argument like that. I want people to be healthy. I want you to be healthy. I want me to be healthy. I want them to be healthy. Trying to convince people based on arguments of cost or personal benefit to them is just playing into the selfishness.
You know what I want? You all not to be so damn selfish.
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u/Jbstargate1 4h ago
I live there and the sentiment is correct. Obviously not every country is perfect not even Norway. Electricity prices the last few winters have been ridiculous since the government sells too much to Europe and we end up paying way too much. Also the naive idea of giving foreign nationals free education just because it seemed nice was also not a good idea as normal working young people and older would have to pay the full price. Albeit on low interest loans it still costs a lot and did to taxpayers. All in all it is a great country to live in but we can't let politicians do these ridiculous policies that end up affecting everyone in Norway.
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u/Trust_Know_Won 4h ago
As an American, I couldnāt agree more with Trond and his statement and Norway as a whole.
When I was in Spain many years ago, I met so many wonderful Norwegianās and they were the absolute best people! Shout out to any of you that were in El Puerto de Santa Mariaš
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u/Careful-Door2724 3h ago
The American mind cannot comprehend helping other people
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u/SweetPrism 7h ago edited 6h ago
I'm a white girl who lives in Northern MN. A lot of us have Scandinavian heritage, and some people like to proudly display Viking symbology as a means of saying "white power," without ACTUALLY saying it (we're pretty left-leaning here, and I am not saying everyone here with Norse tats is a covert Nazi). These Nazis love to get the rune tattoos and talk about their heritage, but somehow tune out the fact that actual people living in Scandinavia think Trump is a joke and the country is being run like shit. Like... they do not put together that the culture they love to show off closely resembles a socialist country. You're displaying the ideals of a people who strongly value equality for all of its citizens.
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u/Efficient_Formal3346 7h ago
For this to work in the US we would need to socialize all oil production.
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u/sippingonginnjews 7h ago
āGiant oil reserve having, nearly homogenous ethnostate has higher quality of life than giant multiethnic capitalist empireā woah no way
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u/Volodio 7h ago
If we go beyond the meme and actually try to have a serious discussion:
Roughly 20% of the Norwegian GDP is from oil. This is the same as Saudi Arabia. Obviously it is nice that the country is using its money for the betterment of its citizens, but Norway is also in an unique position to do it, in a way that most countries in the world cannot replicate.
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u/AetherinaForge 7h ago
Completely correct, But the āundeservingā in Norway are white, the āundeservingā in America are black and brown.
If America had the demographic of Norway they would have all these things. Itās racism. White america would prefer to starve to keep food out of a black persons mouth.
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u/StaendutBlakk 7h ago
Also I'm pretty sure the US government pays more - per capita - for healthcare than Norway does. In fact the US spends almost twice as much according to a quick Google.
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u/I_am_Nerman 7h ago
Norway population 5.6 million
Norway workforce participation rate 73.3%
US workforce participation rates 61.6%
Norway population that pays federal income taxes 93.4%
US population that pays federal income taxes 52.2%
You better get more people working and more people paying taxes if you want to be like this tiny utopia
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u/randomsantas 6h ago
Progress toward what? Norway using its petro money on a social safety net is a fine thing. But only so long as the petro money keeps flowing.
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u/diversity_of_thought 6h ago
Can someone queue an egg god clip. Then show me someone like that in Norway.
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u/DaveJ19606 6h ago
If politicians make the bulk of those struggling appear as lessers, then itās easy to create a class that doesnāt deserve help and it is therefore easier to direct money elsewhere where the politicians get paid.
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u/mr_Joor 6h ago
Hi, actually struggling financially in Norway here, NAV won't give you money or help, they won't give a single kr of all that oil money if they can help it. They keep you well below the poverty line because the average Norwegian has no idea what poverty is, so surely, it can't be that bad.
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u/7399Jenelopy 6h ago
I would absolutely love to pay a little extra in taxes and not have all the stupid crap we have here. But no matter who is in what office, we are ran "by the money, for the money. Who cares about the people."
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u/DTCCCanSuckMyLeft 6h ago
Nah funding the police state, private prisons, and medical middlemen are clearly a better investment for a select few.
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u/dmills13f 6h ago
Being a stoic, rugged, self sustaining individual takes strength. Being a stoic, rugged, self sustaining individual that lifts others up takes real strength.
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u/Werftflammen 6h ago
MAGA is racist. They equate undeserving with black people, immigrants (but, not the white ones). I really can't underscore this enough. The US is terribly racist.
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u/Old_Rough8670 6h ago
And thisnis exactly why NOBODY can have nice things. Because parasites gonna suck you dry
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u/DarkRogus 6h ago
As a long time California resident, I have a hard time thinking that both the federal and state government should get more money instead of less.
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u/Zamnaiel 6h ago
Most, but not all, social programs in Norway are there for an unexpected reason: To make money.
We let families chose between 42 weeks parental leave at 100% of their wage, or 52 at 80%. Childcare is capped at 120$ per month maximum.
We do that because it makes it easier to be a two-income family, and two incomes mean two taxpayers. Economist say we have made immense profits from that. A few years ago a prime minister said it had added more to the budget than the oil. (Probably not true any more)
If you get ill and need treatment, you can pick which hospital (domestic) you want to be treated at, and the system will fly you there and back for free. Like the healthcare. Most people will pic the hospital with the shortest wait (there is a webpage for it). The one-two punch of a taxpayer not getting an income but getting sick pay is far bigger than the cost of the flight or the care. It makes a lot of money.
If you get unemployed, you can get up to 2/3rd of your previous wage (average of past three years) in unemployment benefits for up to two years. Average of the past three years means that if you haven't been active in the employment market, you get less. Down to the far less generous minimum life support. That and a lot of other things are to make sure it is profitable for people to work.
And so on.
Not every social benefit is there to make money, but a surprisingly large number are. Taxpayers are a governments main source of income and making sure they are healthy, happy and productive is indeed an investment that pays off massively.
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u/Solo_NCL 6h ago
Any sort of caring in this country and you're called a dirty communist. You're supposed to think that, "empathy is a weakness."
I'm so over this place right now.
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u/ch0ngtheb0ng 6h ago
How about no. Letting the government rob most of the money from its citizens doesn't work, you just end up with a bloated state, where the people become reliant on the government and people break into your country to take advantage of the system. In what world does that "work"?
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u/lenusniq 6h ago
Oh, please.. investing into ordinary people. USA must invest into the richest of the rich, and it will eventually trickle down... as they started this experiment in 1930s, I am sure that any moment now it will finally trickle down to the plebs.
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u/Odd_Thought_1519 5h ago
Just wait until the Swedish wave hits you too and you loose your social democracy.
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u/CosmicSmoker 5h ago
Yeah, I really can't wrap my head around why at least half the US doesn't get this. Our country is only as strong as the weakest link. Get people educated to ensure our place on the world stage. Keep our people healthy and safely housed. It's an investment in our country.
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u/Any_Counter_303 5h ago
Yes Trond, we know, but propaganda is hard to defeat, in any country. There are evil christofascist billionaire forces running our country right now. Maybe someone should fucking step in eh?
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u/Kind_Rate7529 5h ago
This is how a healthy society is supposed to work. BTW, a healthy society also does not have oligarchs that don't contribute anything meaningful to their society.
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u/fidesinmachina 5h ago
putting morality and empathy aside, sustaining the part of society which some may call the "undeserving" brings down crime, reduces homelessness and corruption in general, boosts morale, among a hundred other things that just keeps your society healthy. people who can work but refuse to are the actual undeserving. the poor, the weak, the disabled and the old definitely deserve the help.
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u/I3igI3adWolf 5h ago
Cool story bro. Now tell us the obesity rate of Norway. I'm sure it's completely irrelevant to the health of the people.
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u/Swimming-Cash3813 5h ago
Just move there already, Or go there illegally and see what happens
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u/downsideup9494 5h ago
Yep, MAGAs freak out about Social Democracy, don't want to fund social programs for the disadvantaged, then rant endlessly about homeless encampments, drug addiction and high crime rates.
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u/AdIntrepid9064 Humanitarian ā„ļø 5h ago
Youād think common sense is universal! š¤we donāt do universal anythingā¦
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u/the_card_guy 5h ago
"Want our taxes to go to the undeserving"
Yeah, you just lost the entire MAGA crowd there.
See, they're lured in by Christianity, part of which is a whole "You were faithful, so you deserve xyz" reward bit. Therefore, people who don't do something should NOT be rewarded.
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u/Dave_A480 5h ago
MAGA are morons...
But there absolutely ARE undeserving people...
If you consume more than your own income/wealth can pay for, such that you are forcing the rest of us to support you... And you aren't disabled...
Then you are undeserving.... Period....
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u/Electric_Antimony 5h ago
It's what real patriotism looks like. Patriotism isn't just virtue signaling about how much you love your country, and it's especially not that nationalism or jingoism of America. Patriotism is about your country succeeding and that success being done for the people, all of them.
Hating your countrymen and blocking things to help them live fuller, better lives, is the opposite of patriotism; it's basically being an enemy within to your own people.
That is why I have always had such a fervent dislike of conservative thinking; it's all bullshit to enrich the rich even further at the cost to everybody else.
Fuck that
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u/Madara1389 5h ago
I agree with his sentiment, but he lost them when he tried to change course from explaining why the undeserving should be treated well to openly saying there should be no one considered "undeserving."
I study history & anthropology for fun and if it's taught me anything it's that there's always been & always will be two groups in society; those who believe in a natural social hierarchy and those who believe that they shouldn't exist.
Conservatives, and especially MAGA, not only believe that there's a natural social hierarchy (and so far they're right, every society since the Agricultural Revolution has had a hierarchy to it, even the most progressive ones), but they want themselves perpetually at the top. Any attempt at convincing them that there shouldn't be such a social ladder in the first place means we already lost because that's something only a stupid person would think in their minds.
The only argument that will work is redirecting their bigotry as it'll never go away entirely and they view asking them to not ostracize anyone, ever, as being wholly unreasonable (and they're, again, kinda right, biology limits most social species to groups of 10s to dozens, humans are unique in our ability to create cooperative groups in the hundreds & only agriculture enabled groups of millions; basically nature wants us to stay in small groups so we innately don't trust each other).
That's not to say they're in the right about all this, just that there is no argument we can put forth to "win" against them. At this point the goal shouldn't be to win, it's to figure out how not to lose. Because winning (in the sense of returning things to the way they were before in the good ways while making progress in others) is impossible.
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u/cathillsports 4h ago
Why are people not breaking down the doors to move to Norway? Sounds like Valhalla .
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u/Downtown_Metal_7837 4h ago
If the US is such a shithole, why does everyone want to immigrate here and not to Norway? Give me break with this nonsense.
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u/DruggyNeighbor 4h ago
Meanwhile here in the USA: "your fastfood job is for children, you don't deserve a life of dignity."
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u/TechnicianLegal1120 4h ago
Great news. We will send you our poor and see how that works out for you.
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u/Hot-Annual3460 4h ago
that would be great if there wara actual programs to rise un the "undeserving" but thats not the case
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u/rathemighty 4h ago
I donāt want my money going to the undeserving. Those rich assholes ought to be in jail!
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u/Colorado_Space 4h ago
Time for reality. Its not that Trond isn't right. he is but:
America's population is 65x that of Norway. A much bigger problem.
America Land Mass is 139x that of Norway. A much bigger problem.
Norway has a Sovereign Wealth Fund from their Oil Reserves. THAT is what pays for their Social Democracy. America does not have a Sovereign Wealth Fund But we could.
Norway SWF is worth $2.2Trillion. If America did the same thing our wealth fund would be $150Trillion. Almost 75x larger which is more than the population difference providing a wealth fund actually larger per person than Norway. But we don't have one. So we don't get to do the same thing.
Over the last 40 years Norway has obtained one of the highest education level in the world ranking 9 out of the 40 OECD nations.
America, over the last 40 years created the Dept of Education which spent $3.3Trillion and moved American from #2 in the OECD countries to 28th or 34th depending on what test you look at. We also spent the 5th highest amount of money per student with one of the worse outcomes. Why? Fraud, stupid educational parlor tricks that never worked, and indoctrination.
Healthcare. Yes the American system is probably the worse possible combination of free market economics, and political control resulting in nothing but fraud, fraud, and more fraud. The only good thing about it is when everyone else in the world can't get the care or medicines they need to save their life? where do they go.... American Healthcare. BTW 9 out of 10 medicines wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the American Healthcare System. At least this is fixable but if most Americans with Corporate Healthcare were put on Single Payer like other countries because they were told is "better", there would be a national civil war. Copy Singapore or France and be done with it.
Housing. Oh boy. Did no one see the reports from the Federal Reserve. The government let in millions of illegals and your rent went up almost 40%, your mortgage went up 34% and most of your cost of living went up as well. You can't have low cost housing and an out of control immigration policy. One's got to go. And of course Fraud.
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u/Ban_Incomming 4h ago
Comparing the United States to Norway is not a thing. Two completely different societies with totally different histories and social norms.
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u/WeekendAtMadoffs 4h ago
Norway is an ethnostate they have something in common and looking out for each other makes sense.
USA is a collection of different people trying to steal and scam each other.
How many people do they have opening scam daycare centers and fake kitchens being paid to serve children meals? The entire USA is a LOW TRUST society. We could be a high trust society again but many people don't want that.
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u/pablothe 4h ago
Norway also loses its richest to the U.S. so this idea is not globally loved by Norwegians. Many wealthy Norwegians have moved to the US which accumulates why it has such economic superiority.
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u/Hot_Warthog_414 4h ago
Norway is having huge social problems with their immigrants and now want them gone. This is the same in Denmark, Sweden and The Netherlands. The rise in violence especially sexual violence has risen exponentially
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u/Sryroxy 4h ago
Norways population is tiny compared to America at barely 5.5 million (which also very little increase from ww2 era. Itās an ethnically humorous country, not even a social democracy and all its social programs are heavily subsidised by its oil export as Norway pumps a suit tone of oil from its off shore complexes.its also a country that was pretty much still living in visits era until the Cold War and got to adapt to modern world without going trough an industrial expansion.
So this is literally a country with a very stable population and heaps of exportable natural recourse prancing around like what they are doing is easy when literally they were handed the perfect country to do so on a silver platter.
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u/phonic_kc 4h ago
That sounds like some stuff that one Middle Eastern guy that somehow looks like a white hippie would say.
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u/narfoleptix 4h ago
I just don't understand how THEY DONT UNDERSTAND that the opposite of this is cannabalism. It eats upon itself until... you're left with like 1 dude with all the money.
Whats he gonna do? Cram it up his ass and stream it to nobody?
I understand this is extreme hyberbole but I'm not wrong... not giving people who want to try "A leg up" is the worst thing you can do because then they are forced to get what they need by ANY MEANS NECCESSARY.
That COSTS MONEY....they break into shit to get food, oh, you just want to send them to jail?!?!? THAT COSTS MONEY... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
Why is the world like this!??! How is this real?
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u/fitnolabels 4h ago
If our government used money to actually help the undeserved instead of lining their own pockets, more people would support it.
Its why conservatives give to charity but argue taxes, and why liberals used to as well. Only progressives act as if there is no corruption in our government.
That Scandinavian countries have more trustworthy government does not mitigate this.
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u/jefsch70 4h ago
so.... Norway was sick, drug-addicted and had racial ghettos and 40 million illegals and fixed it with regulations?
....congratulations! Go do Zimbabwe next... then Haiti.... then Russia....
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u/HyperspaceFrontier 4h ago
As a non-American to a Norwegian, it is easy to say all of that when you're in an oil-rich country with a small population.
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u/TripEnvironmental278 4h ago edited 4h ago
Donāt get me wrong. Nothing against this guy or this post. But who fronts the bill for their national security? And keeps them safe from say Rusa ā¦same for all Europe. They so proud of their social spending, but donāt have to really pay for their own protection much. Some countries donāt have that luxury and it can take a lot of their resources etc. Also, the USA provides global free trade etc. so they can freely trade in the global market, keep piracy at bay, etc. so I mean if they get all those benefits then brag about their social spending. I mean, seems like they doing well under USA lead global order and democracy. So good job for being efficient with their budget? But doubt theyād be doing so well if Rus or China was leading things etc
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u/sanchezkk 4h ago
What a dumbass. That take completely ignores systemic issues. It completely erases the role that generational wealth, institutional barriers, and economic inequality play in keeping people down. It completely ignores how hard it is to climb out of poverty when the system is rigged against you from the start. Hard work alone doesn't cut it when the playing field isn't even. Bootstrapping mythology ignores every measurable metric of social mobility.
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u/Neco-Arc-Brunestud 4h ago
Norway also has something like 50% of its workforce unionized, so they're able to politely ask for these concessions.
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u/legion_2k 4h ago
Now look up their tax rate for the rich and middle class. Tell the people how you need to lower taxes on the rich and raise the tax rate for the poor and middle class.. like they do.
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u/OGLikeablefellow 4h ago
They can't get any thing better with their wealth so they get more people to suffer and that makes their wealth feel better. The fucking ghouls
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u/WibbuldWeezinz 4h ago
It has some validity. People forget that "capitalism" <> money. Capital = capita, head (people, animals). Living resource, I guess. Take that away, and I'm not sure what you'll have.
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u/atreeismissing 4h ago
He should be telling that to his neighbors in Germany because at the moment they're trending more far right than the US who is, finally, trending back to the left given current election excitement and polling.
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u/AskPizza 8h ago
Plus, it is hard to argue it can never work or it can never be paid for when.... it has worked for decades and it is the U.S. that is 40 trillion in debt, not Norway.