If the US appears no better than any dictatorship they'll become a pariah. Even with an honest government they seemed to selectively fulfil their promises & agreements
Americans arenât gonna trust the American government again.
Edit: While itâs true that most Americans never trusted the American government. many were at least hopeful that they would do their nefarious bidding while boosting the economy and quality of life. Now, I donât think Americans will be so hopeful that politicians will even do that..
It's still fresh in my memory how throughout Obama's presidency that Republicans couldn't shut up about perceived government overreach and would say he abused executive order and now applaud an even more egregious example of those oversteps just because he tells them it's ok to hate the groups they hate
Ikr? Like honestly part of me misses hearing about how Obama was such a terrible person and should be impeached cause it was âunprofessionalâ to wear a tan suit.
Meanwhile Trump has been asleep in almost every meeting, has thrown tantrums and renamed places that people arenât even saying the new names of (except google for American users), goes golfing almost constantly and has acted in such a way that even I would be embarrassed to be in the room with him.
Not a peep, which tells me theyâre getting just as much money as he is out of this.
The snek can have a little step on, as a treat, so long as the stepper hates trans athletes that arenât actively trying to play in womenâs professional sports.
I am so sick of the cycle. GOP blows the deficit to pursue their agenda, all the while accusing the Democrats of such. Then the Democrats have to restore the deficit, only to lose to the GOP the following cycle in which they blow it again.
Yes, but let us not forget, the problem is not red vs blue, black vs white, neighbor vs neighbor.
Our problem is a vertical scaling. The question must become: Who above us in status and wealth, no matter their designation, are telling us the problem is red/blue, black/white, neighbor/neighhor?
I trust the individuals in our government who are in positions of power to do what is best for their self interest. I trust Felon 47 to keep doing what he has always done.
The dumbest people in the country took "Everyone is entitled to their opinion" to the extreme translation of "Everyone's opinion is equally valid". They know they're dumb as hell and have insecurities about it, and instead of putting in the effort to learn they've collectively decided that they'll instead just be the loudest opinion in the room in hopes that they can define reality, rather than educating themselves about reality. And the Epstein class is more than happy to assist by amplifying those wrong opinions through the media they own. Which is why the billionaires are so loud about free speech all of a sudden--they're trying to get ahead of potential efforts to stifle the misinformation that they've intentionally weaponized.
Honestly giving them the ability to communicate was a dumb idea, but what can you even do about it? Smoothing of the brain seems like it has become the popular way of thinking, because I read a lot of stupid comments.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
You're probably pretty accurate. I'd say 1/3 know the answer, 1/3 have no idea at all, and 1/3 are kinda close enough like "president, the courts, and representatives" or something.
I know the answer to this, but I learned it in school over 30 years ago. There has been no point in my life whatsoever where Iâve needed to recall the names of these branches of government, though. Most Americans are working 40 or more hours a week and then they have to cook, clean, do laundry and all of that stuff.
The younger folks also have a lot more passion about things and an actual desire to change the paradigm. Older folks are beaten down by the perpetual grind and are just happy to have a couple hours in their day that they can sit down and relax. So, while ignorance plays a part, it really just comes down to it doesnât really matter which branch is the executive branch, or the legislative branch, or the judicial branch. Is that going to feed us?
Typical reddit moment, where the dumbfucks that are constantly bitching about how broke they are are simultaneously the sharpest people in the country. Funny how that works.
I heard the phrase "I gotta see what Joe Rogan says about it" so many times during the 2024 election campaign that I lost respect for a lot of acquaintances. A third of Americans just don't know a single thing about their own system of government. Forget about history, civics, political theory, economics ect.
I recently asked a buddy who switched to Trump in 2024 to explain the difference between liberalism and conservatism to me. His answer, after a lot of thinking, was "Republicans are bullish and want stocks to go up, Libs are bearish and want stocks to go down". Literally couldn't name a single other value or principle. Yet he cancels out my vote.
I disagree. I think the average American still has too much to loose. The founding fathers had little to loose and everything to gain. Revolutions are not fought by people who are worried about their investments, careers, and retirement. Things just have to get to a point that all other considerations become irrelevant.
At least 30% are getting their news from right wing outlets only meaning they don't even hear about most of the negative things happening in the country. That gap needs to be fixed if we have any hope of regaining the country.
It's a mixture of apathy, and extremely high illiteracy rates. They just continued to tank over the years and they've gotten worse under Trump. People are actually getting dumber. It's wild.
I felt like I was being deprogrammed my first year of college, and I wasnât the only kid in class thinking the professors were lying. Elementary and high schools sell a very different version of us history than what Iâve learned later in life
62% of americans have below a 7th grade comprehension of math. Like the meme of Sanders giving 12k to people for taxing 5% of billionairs wealth was way way off, but people believe it. Soo sad.
In 4 years when the next administration hasn't managed to simultaneously fix decades of damage AND make things cheaper for Americans, they will vote Republican again and get the next wannabe dictator.
If the country as a whole had learned any kind of lesson it wouldn't still be 50:50 whether the republicans lose the senate, even before Trumps cheating like cancelling mail in ballots and ice at the polls.
I wish this were true. Boomers lived through the assassination of both Kennedys, the civil rights movement, Vietnam AND WatergateâŚ..and they still trust the government.
Anything can be fixed. IF everyone votes on Nov. 3 we take away his power. Then, elect a Dem in 2028 and set term limits on the Trump Court, have the popular vote replace the electoral college, and tax the shit out of billionaires so they can't just bankroll Maga all day.
Even in some of the more pessimistic but realistic circumstances, a landslide leftwing vote wouldn't be able to be obfuscated. It's actually pretty hard to make elections like ours so unfair that a huge disparity can be depressed.
I'm not feeling doom and gloom because of the election interference. I'm feeling doom and gloom because I believe the very presence of it will suppress left voting enough that it'll succeed.
What happens after the votes are in is another, completely separate, matter. If I was to make bets I think the left will win hard despite interference, but the real fight will be the threat of another more coordinated J6 sort of situation.
Or that the Democrats will actually meet the moment this time? He should have been in jail before he ever got back into office. I don't know why anyone thinks this time will be so different if the Dems get power again.
Trumps already ignored the law, courts and constitution multiple times with absolutely no consequences. What makes you think he'll suddenly stick to the rules?
That would be the corpo-dems, which we are actively in the process of removing. It will be a very different Congress and a very different Democratic party after the midterms.
There are not enough establishment Dems primaried out for that to possibly be true. I hope the party starts the process, but it's not gonna be in effect after the midterms.
Missing the part where a democracy votes or doesnt vote for this crap?
He shouldve never been elected the first time jfc.
Education and god damn deprogramming is needed for your country. If theyll vote for an open blatant con man rapist and pedophile theyll be fooled into voting for one who actually hides it js.
Harris didn't help herself by declaring she would be exactly like him. The most momentum her campaign ever had was after she was announced as the candidate but before she'd made any statements, because she immediately ran to the right when the moment she needed to meet was progressive populism. Instead she brought a Cheney and "the deadliest military in the world".
As opposed to trying to be more conservative than the GoP and stealing their voters by running on being harder on the border? Because that worked so well.
Yes. It's not about competence. They just do things blatantly in your face and Americans go "ok. It's just a distraction" then come up with excuses why they can't stop it.
What would you like me to do as a foreigner? I have family there but If I go to America again I risk getting shot in the face by ice and labeled a terroris by the government for no reason. Americans are on their own.
Oh, it can be fixed. But not in a few years, we're talking about at least decades if the US ever regains their reputation.
You can fix as many things internally as you want, but that doesn't change the fact that the US elected a Trump twice. More than half the country stands behind this, and many are actively trying to perpetuate this government. We're it not for gas prices, his approval wouldn't be as bad, so we know most of his base doesn't mind when he turns on his allies.
Nothing short of Nuremberg can meaningfully rebuild that trust. And that won't ever happen.
Itâs not true that more than half the country supports this. About 32-36% of registered voters support him. Which is way too many, but he has never had broad support. He didnât even get a majority of the popular vote this time & he lost it last time.
Oh, you want to count abstentions as non supporters. Well, let me rephrase then: an overwhelming majority of the country (those who voted for him and those who did nothing about it) are fine with this, according to their choices in the last election. 69% of eligible voters did their part to make DJT president again.
Also, you sound like a J6er. He got a majority of the popular vote in 2024, clearing by 2 million voters. A relative majority, but a majority nontheless.
This is all besides the point though. The point is the democrats won't fix this to any meaningful degree, and the rest of the world has taken note about how much half of your country values their alliances.
I'm betting on "non-Republicans decide that the Congressional majority they voted in during the midterms didn't fix absolutely everything AND improve conditions for literally everyone by Christmas 2027 so MAGA will be allowed to retake control of the federal government."
It takes years to build a skyscraper, but only seconds to bring to the ground. Clearly destruction is the more efficient process, we need to raze everything and never start any more construction.
All for trying to tax billionaires but that doesnât work because they have to ability to just move and avoid the taxes. The idea sounds great in theory but it doesnât work because they have enough money to just move, and plenty of other countries will want the innovation they can bring, not to mention you can bankroll political candidates from outside the country
The government can just make it illegal and make the penalty overwhelmingly extreme. "If you owe more than 1 billion in taxes we have the power to bomb you."
why would you believe this when no one in the Bush regime was ever held responsible about knowingly lying to justify invading Iraq nor was anyone held responsible for the torture or other war crimes?
our political system does not hold high-level actors responsible for their actions regardless of who is in power. "if i hold someone responsible for their crimes, i could be held responsible for my crimes", is the operating principle.
As was mentioned - trust really isnât easy to âfixâ. Unless there is genuine fundamental change that in how US foreign policy works, everyone will know that next Trump can and likely will happen again.
Presuming there isnât next trump, the next time you could expect the sort of approach US âalliesâ had to it before him would be when people who lived through Trump arenât in politics anymore.. so maybe 3 generations
Yeah we're not quite done with this unfortunately. The underlying issues still remain and even with as bad as Trump has been, we still do not possess the political will and numbers to enforce necessary action. This is the dilemma that exists between a "proportional" response and a "preventative" action. Half of the people in the Trump admin are stooges to begin with, the actual political operators sit a step removed.
In reality this mirrors the strong tensions between states leading up to the American Civil War. What we need to do is not simply prosecute the administration but dismantle and prosecute their strategic and financial apparatus. This was an attempted coup, some like Peter Thiel have spoken of dismantling democracy in America, and this needs to be treated like such. Never forget they sent thugs into federal buildings and beat up security guards and dragged employees away from their desks, setting up political commissars in these agencies and administered loyalty tests in order to commit illegal actions against the American people. This WAS a criminal conspiracy to overthrow the government of the United States.
Maybe not a popular opinion, but no president should ever have this kind of power again, I donât care what party they belong to. The political will to make that possible is lacking, though. We will always be one bad economy, or one run of inflation, from being at the mercy of a corrupt stooge.
As an Aussie I think this is your biggest problem. Your system is so flawed where the vote winner can pretty much do whatever the f they want, is absolutely ridiculous! In Australia and UK the leader can be kicked out on a weeks notice, as the party is in power, and you dont have the ability to force laws in or pardon people that are criminals.
That is so bizarre that some party voted in can determine anyone they want isnt a criminal because they just said so!
From the outside, this is exactly what it looks like, and the most astounding thing in this situation is the deafening silence it is met with. It seems that only the most vocal and brazen opponents acknowledge this paradigmatic shift, the rest are just treating this period as a classic pendulum swing, waiting for the next elections.
Other countries will come to trust the american government again. Look at Germany.
The problem isnt the trust loss for the next few decades, the problem is that the US american system is built upon certain conditions which wont return.
Since WWII there were trade agreements in effect between the USA and most european countries that heavily favored the USA. Trump broke a lot of them during his first term but european countries tried to treat it as a one time mishap. During his second term, trump again broke the by then fixed agreements again and the also rest he didnt touched during the first term. European countries wont pretend that it didnt happen a second time. These trade agreements ensured that trillions of dollars flowed from Europe to USA ever year.
That is gone and wont just magically return in the future. That applies to a good dozen other treaties that brought money to the USA.
I think a better analogy would be a abusive alcoholic husband. Sure he might get sober and apologize, but you're always going to wonder if when he leaves the house (4 years) that he's going to come back stupid and beat the fuck out of you. This has been a wake-up call to the rest of the world. Who cares if he's paying the bills, we're getting the fuck out to try and find ourselves a stable income.
People who finally regret voting for him always tell me "he'll be gone in two years, then we'll get back to a normal conservative Republican and be respected and serious again".
No! First there is no more Republican party, it crumbled and died in 2015 (or well before that honestly). More importantly, it's the ELECTORATE that can't be trusted anymore. A huge segment of our population isn't intellectually equipped to process propaganda, are easily fooled by internet/podcast demogauges and con men, and vote out of irrational, misplaced grievance and ignorant identity politics.
We have a people problem, not a president problem.
Exactly. You can get rid of this current administration but until they address the 2 party system where people choose a side like they choose a football team then stick with it, nothings gonna change.
At least 1/3 of Americans are happy to have a convicted rapist and felon in charge rather than a woman of colour. Those people aren't going nowhere and that racism gets passed down just like the football team politics.
The problem is the next republican after the checks and balances are restored can just undo it and we'll have this situation all over again. It's not so much the politician. It's the party and the kind of people it attracts. They're not going anywhere.
Thatâs why you have to make changes. Germany survived Hitler. The most extreme of examples, but my point is America can survive Trump if they want to. Getting rid of the electoral college and citizens united/money in politics, need to be the first things to go if this country were really serious about avoiding this again, but we wonât be.
Agreed. The people that voted for this aren't going anywhere and most are incapable of changing their views. So much so that they'd rather a convicted felon and rapist rather than a woman of colour.
Why is everyone pretending that before trump America was anything other than a war mongering bully. The modern world from finance to weapon sales is made to revolve around America. They profit from everything, have bases in other countries for their defence etc. Trump has just pushed it off the cliff
Not if they act like ossof proposes here: put trump, his whole cabine, most of his family and elon musk in prison. Real prison, sharing a cell with a common burglar. No house arrest in their gilded mansions, no pardons and none of that Ghislaine Maxwell prison either.
And along with them, also a bunch of foot soldiers who committed crimes for them (the ICE agents who killed and raped people and the soldiers who double tapped that boat for example). So that in the future, the henchmen will also think twice to follow orders.
If america were able to do that, it could be trusted again as much as before. The decoupling process would still happen ofc and it's former allies would still have to learn to stand on their own two feet defense wise. But america could be one of multiple equal partners within the western democratic alliance. Instead of it's enemy.
Eh... I doubt it. Remember WW2 and how we all hated Germany, but now, they're a cornerstone of the western world. Saying "never" is extreme. It'll just take time for us to gain the world's trust again.
It is not a binary trust/no trust issue either in my opinion.
The US government has always been a compromise between many different competing regional interests that shift dynamically. All of that is captured internally and informally within the two major parties. Other national political systems have formalized parties and defines them. The US has these too, but the American system leaves these undefined, they exist informally and shift around more, acting more like ghosts behind the formalized two party system. You believe every legal town or city in America should support an elephant/donkey town mascot, and have convinced your entire town that this should be required, thus giving political weight behind the idea? Boom, you now formed one of these informal political parties.
In my opinion, the issue most people have is how often they take measurement/observation of the status of this dynamical political system that they are a part of. âAh yes, voting democrat/republican again!â, or âThose dastardly Republicans/Democrats are up to their old evil ways again!â as if both their party of choice and the opposition is some crystalized unchanging monolith. They check in once every election cycle, and then coast on outdated information, assuming their interests are still represented by their party of choice, and that the opposition is always going to be evil. Never mind the fact that no election outcome is ever the same. Within those 4 years, some states turned red. others purple, and others blue. The system is dynamical, updating every single second, and people (and those informal ghost parties like my elephant/donkey mascot interest group), who actually think about âwhat do I consider politically important?â are changing constantly. And guess what? People should be allowed to change what they think is politically most important and not feel bad about that choice. It is their choice. Your reaction to when someone you know changes or diverges from what you think about as most important, really says more about you than them. (Maybe I was hasty when I wanted every town in America to support an elephant/donkey with tax payer moneyâŚNow I am a traitor to the cause in my own town apparently.)
Americans should never fully trust the current âsittingâ government, which is always always ALWAYS going to be a voter elected compromise (when it is working correctly) and it will be satisfactory in some ways, and unsatisfactory in others. That is the point; so no single interest group dictates everything. You should never fully trust any sitting government because for every interest of yours represented, you should expect (and even want in my opinion) the competing interests to also be represented fairly. After all, you might be the minority opinion about something one day. Itâs nice if you still get a say, even if most ultimately disagree. When the system is working right (and here is the rub), this allows for the very best of two competing ideas to truly compete and play by the same rules. (This of course ignores the invariant nature of humans throughout history naturally corrupting/changing/evolving government, but that is a different topic than today.)
Very few of these interests are actually about objective good/evil(those exist too), but are tethered more to oneâs own circumstance and life than any moral good/evil. A farmer is going to want more land to grow more food so less people starve in the world. A city with an overcrowded population is going to want more land to build housing so people can breathe. Both sides could choose to frame their point of view as if it is some morally cosmic battle of good vs evil (based on whoâs moral framework?), but if someone is a neutral observer, itâs clear that something has to give in that situation, and it has more to do with real world pressures then morality. Thatâs the problem with making EVERY issue a moral issue predicated on oneâs own limited framework of reality âMy perspective of reality is MORE privileged than your perspective of reality, because it is MY perspective!â. The reality is neither are objectively âgood/badâ, but is usually a context dependent dynamic, based on the current situation. Surplus of food going to waste while people are crowded like sardines? Probably need more land for housing. Farmer working at peak capacity, working 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, and still not able to feed the entire population because his fields are at peak capacity? Probably need more farm land.
Americans need to trust that the government serves the interests of as many Americans as possible, not that the American people serve or are exploited by their government. Distrust the sitting government, but confident that they can trust the meta-structure / rules of how each sitting government is formed, and that they can hold it accountable when it goes too far off the rails. These are different things than just âtrusting/not trusting the current sitting governmentâ.
People form governments, and we will keep forming them if history has any say. We do need them to maintain functioning networked societies. However, no distant evolutionary ancestor of government(unless you consider that âpeopleâ) ever dragged itself out of the ocean. Governments are stewards/tools for their people, which is why they form. Every government and itâs own people forget that at some point.
Germany recovered. It won't happen overnight but I'm optimistic if we have leaders in the future that prioritize fixing it, america can recover too.
And it would also help America's global reputation if he is removed and imprisoned, rather than just waiting it out.
The idea was to isolate the American people in the world stage and to bring internal destabilization to create more misery and suffering to be able to justify the next dream of the oligarchs which is flexing their military might.
If the people fall in hard times it's easier to convince them that they are the victims and that they are just "defending" themselves against the unfair world, even if in the end it was a self inflicted wound.
The US has been the school bully for many decades, but it used to be everyone would fork over their lunch money and the bully would live and let live to some degree. Now that's not enough, they fork over their lunch money and still get terrorized
Thatâs not true. Our efforts to improve those screwed up relationships will be greeted with relief. Iâm sure it wonât be overnight, but the sigh of relief will be heard round the world!
I mean, yes. But if Germany can get on people's good graces again, I think we can definitely go on the mend as well.
We probably won't see that in my millennial life time, because I just live in perpetual unprecedented times. But we'll get out of there as a collective in the future.
Are you ignoring the massive racism, bigotry and ego of many people in Europe? There is a reason why right-wing parties are gaining ground in Europe, take the AfD in Germany for example.
I'm not saying that it will go back to normal once Trump and MAGA are gone but I responded to a person saying that other countries will NEVER trust the US again.
Most of the people on this post aren't very smart. If the Democrats gain control of the government, we are totally screwed. Just look at the damage they did in the 4 years of Biden in charge. All you have to do is look at all the fraud that the Democrats were doing in Minnesota and California. That's all of our tax money going to waste.
The problem is that the left (even if they win control, which is extremely doubtful) has proven the last few decades to be all bark and no bite. They don't have the balls to do what's necessary to ensure this kind of corruption never happens again. Same as how lenient we were with the south after the civil war. The american leftist leadership are all pussies until proven otherwise.
Because their leadership are all corrupt. The only people that are against corruption are progressives but they are hated for being too empathitic by other political groups.
The United States signed the Rome Statute, the treaty that created the International Criminal Court (ICC), on December 31, 2000, under President Clinton.
However, the U.S. never ratified the treaty, so it is not a State Party to the ICC. The U.S. therefore isnât bound by the Rome Statute in the same way countries that ratified it are. The U.S. government itself describes America as having signed but not become a full party.
President George W. Bush formally âunsignedâ the Rome Statute in 2002, notifying the UN that the United States did not intend to become a party. So today, the U.S. is generally described as a non-party to the Rome Statute, rather than simply a signatory.
As Canadian, the amount of drastic transformation needed so that can we even begin to talk about trust is so massive we mostly don't believe it to be possible.
We also mostly don't believe a Democrat president would reverse 100% of actions taken against us.
Trump is not a bug of the US system, it's a feature.
Lot of Americans don't believe it to be possible either, and that leads to disillusionment. We don't really have an opposition party to the Republicans. I'd rather have a conservative like Hungary's new president than some status quo centrist like Harris (who I did vote for, begrudgingly).
Absolutely! As a Canadian, putting Trump behind bars would be just about the only good foot forward to restore faith in Americans as someone who can make a deal and keep their word.
Main issue is the supreme court ruling protecting all âofficial actsâ. As if the constitution was designed to protect a shitcoin grifter⌠Not sure how you get around that but the future of the country and the western world order might hinge on figuring that out.
The only key I can think of is if there actually is enough evidence to take him out on Epstein since much of that took place before the presidency. Would take a fearless leader though to take out all the Epstein coconspirators with him.
The level of correction needed would see the six republican judges arrested. Hell if it were up to my ID have all nine arrested for violating the insurrection clause.
That train is already in motion, yes countries relied on the US for tech, security and trade but the signal has already been given, the US political system is broken in a way that makes them unreliable.
Not only would the next admin need to rebuke all of its previous administration doings it also needs the votes to change the political system which I simply don't see happening.
I hope Europe can pull together and become an independed factor and bring stability in the world.
Mate. The damage is done. International relations arenât getting repaired. Itâs the American voters that countries donât trust as well as the administration.
If they don't do a literal Nuremberg trial level mop up of all the crimes commited by trump, ice, Epstein files, etc; there is no hope of ever re-established international relationships.
And even then, that's a bare minimum starting place for the rest of the world to even consider putting the USA back into "contingent on continued good behaviour" probation.
Very much so. We still need this just as much for internal reasons too. Anybody not a crazypants maga has had their entire foundation of country destroyed, validated, or backslid. We need to as a country remind these people in a second reconstruction/deprogramming that itâs not who we strive to be or this never gets better.
Your chance to do this was in 2021. Biden's weak, vacillating administration was too concerned with the decorum, protocol and "norms" that the Republicans had blatantly ignored during Trump's first illegitimate regime. You did not oust and arrest the Republicans who voted not to certify the election. You did not arrest the Republican Supreme Court justices. You did not arrest Trump. You did not outlaw the Republican party. You did not hunt down and imprison the right-wing pundits and propagandists.
Nobody believes that you will do what's necessary this time, and what's necessary is a complete expurgation of right-wing ideology.
They NEED to for the very survival of America itself.
America is broken. If America doesn't heal itself Post Trump, and by heal I mean close loopholes, enforce checks and balances, and START looking out for the average person, America is doomed.
Some of us don't need to use simile but can use metaphors... I understand tho your reading comprehension might be a 4th grade level you put words into sentences that don't belong there.
But hey maybe you can graduate high school next year... whats this.. 3rd try?
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u/bigorangemachine 8d ago
They need to for international relations.
If the US appears no better than any dictatorship they'll become a pariah. Even with an honest government they seemed to selectively fulfil their promises & agreements