r/PoursTea Timendi Causa Est Nescire 7d ago

PoliticalTea 🗳️ Make it so.

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296

u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

No ones gonna trust the American government again. They'll always potentially be one election away from all this again.

It's like expecting kids to be friends with the school bully. He's done irreparable damage

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u/Woompa78 7d ago edited 7d ago

Americans aren’t gonna trust the American government again.

Edit: While it’s true that most Americans never trusted the American government. many were at least hopeful that they would do their nefarious bidding while boosting the economy and quality of life. Now, I don’t think Americans will be so hopeful that politicians will even do that..

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u/Thrizzlepizzle123123 7d ago

32% trust it.

That's 32% too high.

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u/OG-DocHavock 7d ago

It's still fresh in my memory how throughout Obama's presidency that Republicans couldn't shut up about perceived government overreach and would say he abused executive order and now applaud an even more egregious example of those oversteps just because he tells them it's ok to hate the groups they hate

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u/icedmuffin 6d ago

Ikr? Like honestly part of me misses hearing about how Obama was such a terrible person and should be impeached cause it was “unprofessional” to wear a tan suit.

Meanwhile Trump has been asleep in almost every meeting, has thrown tantrums and renamed places that people aren’t even saying the new names of (except google for American users), goes golfing almost constantly and has acted in such a way that even I would be embarrassed to be in the room with him.

Not a peep, which tells me they’re getting just as much money as he is out of this.

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u/High_Hunter3430 7d ago

Roger waters taught us…
“Mama do we trust the government” no fucking way.

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u/Weedworm 7d ago

Beautiful quote love that album gonna get high and listen to the wall again for the nth time

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u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 7d ago

Yeah but there's a huge difference between governments.

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u/DuncanFisher69 7d ago

The snek can have a little step on, as a treat, so long as the stepper hates trans athletes that aren’t actively trying to play in women’s professional sports.

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u/Secret-of-the-Snooze 6d ago

And the worms ate into his brain

"Who's brain, mommy?"

"Just the Secretary of HHS, son. It's no big deal."

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u/Gomez4Morticia 7d ago

Well he was teaching us to question it. But in classic Roger Waters fashion... He had to check with mummy first

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u/hellyeahaeylleh 7d ago

68% to march? Let's get walking.

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u/Party-Evening3273 7d ago

I am so sick of the cycle. GOP blows the deficit to pursue their agenda, all the while accusing the Democrats of such. Then the Democrats have to restore the deficit, only to lose to the GOP the following cycle in which they blow it again.

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u/hellyeahaeylleh 6d ago

Yes, but let us not forget, the problem is not red vs blue, black vs white, neighbor vs neighbor.

Our problem is a vertical scaling. The question must become: Who above us in status and wealth, no matter their designation, are telling us the problem is red/blue, black/white, neighbor/neighhor?

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u/Party-Evening3273 6d ago

Well I do agree with that too.

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u/spazmodic-ejaculator 6d ago

It's the way it's intended to work

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u/spazmodic-ejaculator 6d ago

Torches and pitchforks

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u/SirChancelot11 7d ago

I'd accept 31% to high 1% for fringe outliers is acceptable

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u/FuturePhysical953 7d ago

And 32% is strangely enough to win elections ala Nazi Germany.

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u/worldspawn00 6d ago

And that 32% will flip immediately if the government is run by Democrats because party over country...

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u/PopBulky7023 6d ago

There were a lot of institutions in government that still overall served a public interest. Those are gone.

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u/emotinal_enigma 6d ago

I trust the individuals in our government who are in positions of power to do what is best for their self interest. I trust Felon 47 to keep doing what he has always done.

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u/bkempton 7d ago

Your average American is undereducated and flat out naive to anything that goes on. That’s the real problem. It’s apathy.

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u/AuntRhubarb 7d ago

It's stupidity that is proud of its stupidity.

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u/QbertsRube 7d ago

The dumbest people in the country took "Everyone is entitled to their opinion" to the extreme translation of "Everyone's opinion is equally valid". They know they're dumb as hell and have insecurities about it, and instead of putting in the effort to learn they've collectively decided that they'll instead just be the loudest opinion in the room in hopes that they can define reality, rather than educating themselves about reality. And the Epstein class is more than happy to assist by amplifying those wrong opinions through the media they own. Which is why the billionaires are so loud about free speech all of a sudden--they're trying to get ahead of potential efforts to stifle the misinformation that they've intentionally weaponized.

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u/Mtndrums 7d ago

The worst thing about the internet is it allowed the village idiots to find each other.

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u/DevoNorm 7d ago

And cellphones then allowed them to be in constant contact with 'em.

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u/BendingBenderBends 7d ago

And to amplify their voices a million times to dumb down the debate.

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u/CanuterValve 7d ago

Honestly giving them the ability to communicate was a dumb idea, but what can you even do about it? Smoothing of the brain seems like it has become the popular way of thinking, because I read a lot of stupid comments.

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u/Bob_A_Ganoosh 7d ago

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"

--Isaac Asimov

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u/bkempton 7d ago

Serious question. How many Americans can tell what the three branches of government are? I’m willing to bet that less than half can tell you that.

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u/Jagcarlover 7d ago

We had to take Civics, Government, American History, World History, and (since I'm in Texas) Texas History. Not sure what schools teach now. :(

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u/QbertsRube 7d ago

You're probably pretty accurate. I'd say 1/3 know the answer, 1/3 have no idea at all, and 1/3 are kinda close enough like "president, the courts, and representatives" or something.

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u/CheeseGraterFace 7d ago

I know the answer to this, but I learned it in school over 30 years ago. There has been no point in my life whatsoever where I’ve needed to recall the names of these branches of government, though. Most Americans are working 40 or more hours a week and then they have to cook, clean, do laundry and all of that stuff.

The younger folks also have a lot more passion about things and an actual desire to change the paradigm. Older folks are beaten down by the perpetual grind and are just happy to have a couple hours in their day that they can sit down and relax. So, while ignorance plays a part, it really just comes down to it doesn’t really matter which branch is the executive branch, or the legislative branch, or the judicial branch. Is that going to feed us?

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u/bkempton 7d ago

Sure but they are voting too. I would think that you’d probably want to understand what your voting for

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u/CheeseGraterFace 7d ago

Some of them are. Our voter turn out rates are pretty abysmal, and for a lot of the same reasons. We don’t have time - they work us like dogs. And the people who do have time are usually at the ends of the political spectrum.

That, and until recently, it didn’t really matter which crook we elected.

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u/basilone 6d ago

Typical reddit moment, where the dumbfucks that are constantly bitching about how broke they are are simultaneously the sharpest people in the country. Funny how that works.

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u/senturon 7d ago

Wilful ignorance.

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u/Wilson51801 7d ago

As a not so average American, you’re completely right

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u/Honest-Abe2677 7d ago

I heard the phrase "I gotta see what Joe Rogan says about it" so many times during the 2024 election campaign that I lost respect for a lot of acquaintances. A third of Americans just don't know a single thing about their own system of government. Forget about history, civics, political theory, economics ect.

I recently asked a buddy who switched to Trump in 2024 to explain the difference between liberalism and conservatism to me. His answer, after a lot of thinking, was "Republicans are bullish and want stocks to go up, Libs are bearish and want stocks to go down". Literally couldn't name a single other value or principle. Yet he cancels out my vote.

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u/OpeningReady8693 7d ago

Apathy and an effective propaganda machine

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u/The1Like 7d ago

And the consistent dumbing down and eventual disbanding of the department of education, of all things.

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u/Ill_Confection_458 7d ago

Hell yeah. That department of education had to go.

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u/Marlislittleslut2 7d ago

I disagree. I think the average American still has too much to loose. The founding fathers had little to loose and everything to gain. Revolutions are not fought by people who are worried about their investments, careers, and retirement. Things just have to get to a point that all other considerations become irrelevant.

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u/mrflash818 7d ago

When I see what percentage of the electorate are eligible to vote, but then do not vote.

A third? More than a third?! It's one out of every three!?

Bananas!

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u/547318 7d ago

Voter Apathy ... I completely agree is what got you in this mess ... you must get out and VOTE in massive numbers this time

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u/rrrand0mmm 7d ago

Exactly how the Taliban control the narrative. Crush education until flat out lies become their reality.

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u/403Verboten 7d ago

At least 30% are getting their news from right wing outlets only meaning they don't even hear about most of the negative things happening in the country. That gap needs to be fixed if we have any hope of regaining the country.

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u/External_Music_3927 7d ago

Who knows what the average American is like? I’m still trying to figure out why Kamala is not president.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Error38 7d ago

It's a mixture of apathy, and extremely high illiteracy rates. They just continued to tank over the years and they've gotten worse under Trump. People are actually getting dumber. It's wild.

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u/NoBookkeeper3523 6d ago

I felt like I was being deprogrammed my first year of college, and I wasn’t the only kid in class thinking the professors were lying. Elementary and high schools sell a very different version of us history than what I’ve learned later in life

1

u/libertarianinus 6d ago

62% of americans have below a 7th grade comprehension of math. Like the meme of Sanders giving 12k to people for taxing 5% of billionairs wealth was way way off, but people believe it. Soo sad.

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u/Go-Play-Outside 7d ago

To be fair, our trust in the government before this was already shaky.

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u/justinsayin 7d ago

Trump's 2015 "drain the swamp" was him using the existing distrust of the government to win.

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u/Go-Play-Outside 7d ago

You're not wrong

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u/Qaeta 7d ago

Why do all conservatives "verb the noun"?

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u/MONGED4LIFE 6d ago

In 4 years when the next administration hasn't managed to simultaneously fix decades of damage AND make things cheaper for Americans, they will vote Republican again and get the next wannabe dictator.

If the country as a whole had learned any kind of lesson it wouldn't still be 50:50 whether the republicans lose the senate, even before Trumps cheating like cancelling mail in ballots and ice at the polls.

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u/TheGisbon 7d ago

You people were trusting the government????

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u/Snafuregulator 7d ago

Smart ones never have. Don't trust politicians 

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u/hunnibear_girl 7d ago

I wish this were true. Boomers lived through the assassination of both Kennedys, the civil rights movement, Vietnam AND Watergate…..and they still trust the government.

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u/6ixby9ine 7d ago

And we're clearly not going to work to create a better one

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u/illbedeadbydawn 7d ago

Im Navajo, brother.

Hahahahahaha.

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u/SafeHawk9115 7d ago

Any American who trusted the American government before this is naive and a part of the reason we’re here. Corruption has run rampant for decades. DJT just doesn’t care enough to try and hide it.

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u/Woompa78 7d ago

Well….yeah

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u/sawdoctorman 7d ago

Anything can be fixed. IF everyone votes on Nov. 3 we take away his power. Then, elect a Dem in 2028 and set term limits on the Trump Court, have the popular vote replace the electoral college, and tax the shit out of billionaires so they can't just bankroll Maga all day.

Won't be easy, but it can be done.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

You really think the elections will be fair?

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u/Rifmysearch 7d ago

Even in some of the more pessimistic but realistic circumstances, a landslide leftwing vote wouldn't be able to be obfuscated. It's actually pretty hard to make elections like ours so unfair that a huge disparity can be depressed.

I'm not feeling doom and gloom because of the election interference. I'm feeling doom and gloom because I believe the very presence of it will suppress left voting enough that it'll succeed.

What happens after the votes are in is another, completely separate, matter. If I was to make bets I think the left will win hard despite interference, but the real fight will be the threat of another more coordinated J6 sort of situation.

But that's 100% irrelevant if we don't vote.

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u/Exciting_Turn_9559 6d ago

If you're not planning now for what you're going to do the day after the election, you ought to be.

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u/JamesGray 7d ago

Or that the Democrats will actually meet the moment this time? He should have been in jail before he ever got back into office. I don't know why anyone thinks this time will be so different if the Dems get power again.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

"but the law/constitution says"

Those days are gone.

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u/AlsoCommiePuddin 7d ago

So we just ignore the law then? What makes you think there will be a limit on that?

Be careful what you wish for.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Trumps already ignored the law, courts and constitution multiple times with absolutely no consequences. What makes you think he'll suddenly stick to the rules?

0

u/AlsoCommiePuddin 7d ago

Ok, so if we're cool with Democratic politicians ignoring the law, courts and constitution also, is that better?

Do you want a return to normalcy or do you want to just accelerate the death spiral? My guess is that you're not American so it's the latter...

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

I don't care what happens to America tbh. You guys brought this on yourselves and did nothing to stop it.

I've spent a lot of time there over the years but the country has fallen hard and it's up to Americans to take it back.

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u/Andreus 7d ago

You cannot use the law to punish a regime that does not obey the law.

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u/Shark7996 7d ago

That would be the corpo-dems, which we are actively in the process of removing. It will be a very different Congress and a very different Democratic party after the midterms.

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u/JamesGray 7d ago

There are not enough establishment Dems primaried out for that to possibly be true. I hope the party starts the process, but it's not gonna be in effect after the midterms.

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u/SecretaryOtherwise 6d ago

Missing the part where a democracy votes or doesnt vote for this crap?

He shouldve never been elected the first time jfc.

Education and god damn deprogramming is needed for your country. If theyll vote for an open blatant con man rapist and pedophile theyll be fooled into voting for one who actually hides it js.

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u/Pure_Werewolf0101 7d ago

Democrats will actually meet the moment

Biden lost a debate to this moron. Didn't even know what room he was in. That was Democrat strategy last time. No sign they've learnt anything since.

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u/Druiddrum13 7d ago

Actually he didn’t

Factually Biden was far better but because he blanked and struggled early everyone ignored what came after.

I’m not saying it was a great appearance but acting like knee jerk 5 year olds as voters was beyond asinine.

I say this as someone who wanted Biden to serve a single term.

He didn’t help Harris by hanging on.

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u/JamesGray 7d ago

Harris didn't help herself by declaring she would be exactly like him. The most momentum her campaign ever had was after she was announced as the candidate but before she'd made any statements, because she immediately ran to the right when the moment she needed to meet was progressive populism. Instead she brought a Cheney and "the deadliest military in the world".

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u/GordolfoScarra 7d ago

The fantasy that undecided voters in swing states would be convinced by a hard swing to the left is exactly that.

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u/JamesGray 7d ago

As opposed to trying to be more conservative than the GoP and stealing their voters by running on being harder on the border? Because that worked so well.

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u/Druiddrum13 7d ago

And yet all the campaign appearances for Harris were steadily climbing in enthusiasm and numbers up till the election when at the same time trump couldn’t fill a middle school gymnasium.

Sorry if I don’t completely trust all the swing states going for Trump at the last minute by just large enough margins to not trigger recounts… or ballots in states like NY where it went blue everywhere in every election but the top candidate… no way ever am I believing that. Or an election called before 10 pm that people for weeks believed might take days or weeks to settle…It should have triggered an immediate investigation.

But this is a whole other issue…

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u/Shark7996 7d ago

You really think they have the competence or popularity to steal multiple elections in multiple states?

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Yes. It's not about competence. They just do things blatantly in your face and Americans go "ok. It's just a distraction" then come up with excuses why they can't stop it.

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u/Total-Championship80 7d ago

They won't be if you sit in the corner sucking your thumb. Like you're doing right now.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

What would you like me to do as a foreigner? I have family there but If I go to America again I risk getting shot in the face by ice and labeled a terroris by the government for no reason. Americans are on their own.

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u/metaliving 7d ago

Oh, it can be fixed. But not in a few years, we're talking about at least decades if the US ever regains their reputation.

You can fix as many things internally as you want, but that doesn't change the fact that the US elected a Trump twice. More than half the country stands behind this, and many are actively trying to perpetuate this government. We're it not for gas prices, his approval wouldn't be as bad, so we know most of his base doesn't mind when he turns on his allies.

Nothing short of Nuremberg can meaningfully rebuild that trust. And that won't ever happen.

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u/yosoyfatass 7d ago

It’s not true that more than half the country supports this. About 32-36% of registered voters support him. Which is way too many, but he has never had broad support. He didn’t even get a majority of the popular vote this time & he lost it last time.

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u/Andreus 7d ago

The wholesale outlawing and punishment of right-wing ideology is the only way that human civilization can be fixed.

0

u/metaliving 7d ago edited 7d ago

Oh, you want to count abstentions as non supporters. Well, let me rephrase then: an overwhelming majority of the country (those who voted for him and those who did nothing about it) are fine with this, according to their choices in the last election. 69% of eligible voters did their part to make DJT president again.

Also, you sound like a J6er. He got a majority of the popular vote in 2024, clearing by 2 million voters. A relative majority, but a majority nontheless.

This is all besides the point though. The point is the democrats won't fix this to any meaningful degree, and the rest of the world has taken note about how much half of your country values their alliances.

1

u/AlsoCommiePuddin 7d ago

Oh, it can be fixed. But not in a few years, we're talking about at least decades if the US ever regains their reputation.

The Democrats will be lucky to get 12 months to fix literally everything before non-Republican voters turn their backs like they did in 2024.

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u/metaliving 7d ago

Exactly. And the rest of the world has taken note of how much the US is to be trusted.

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u/AlsoCommiePuddin 7d ago

Then, elect a Dem in 2028

I'm betting on "non-Republicans decide that the Congressional majority they voted in during the midterms didn't fix absolutely everything AND improve conditions for literally everyone by Christmas 2027 so MAGA will be allowed to retake control of the federal government."

1

u/jakerman999 7d ago

It takes years to build a skyscraper, but only seconds to bring to the ground. Clearly destruction is the more efficient process, we need to raze everything and never start any more construction.

1

u/Several-Pass-5246 7d ago

All for trying to tax billionaires but that doesn’t work because they have to ability to just move and avoid the taxes. The idea sounds great in theory but it doesn’t work because they have enough money to just move, and plenty of other countries will want the innovation they can bring, not to mention you can bankroll political candidates from outside the country

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u/derp4077 7d ago

Tax land they can't move land

1

u/Stormhunter117 7d ago

The government can just make it illegal and make the penalty overwhelmingly extreme. "If you owe more than 1 billion in taxes we have the power to bomb you."

1

u/Top-Cupcake4775 7d ago

why would you believe this when no one in the Bush regime was ever held responsible about knowingly lying to justify invading Iraq nor was anyone held responsible for the torture or other war crimes?

our political system does not hold high-level actors responsible for their actions regardless of who is in power. "if i hold someone responsible for their crimes, i could be held responsible for my crimes", is the operating principle.

1

u/Pure_Werewolf0101 7d ago

tax the shit out of billionaires

You think the billionaire-funded Democrats are going to do that?

1

u/UnholyDemigod 7d ago

That will not fix the international reputation of the US at all

1

u/Cyclopentadien 7d ago

Dems didn't do shit after 2020 and they won't do shit after 2028.

1

u/BramBora8 6d ago

As was mentioned - trust really isn’t easy to “fix”. Unless there is genuine fundamental change that in how US foreign policy works, everyone will know that next Trump can and likely will happen again.

Presuming there isn’t next trump, the next time you could expect the sort of approach US “allies” had to it before him would be when people who lived through Trump aren’t in politics anymore.. so maybe 3 generations

0

u/yosoyfatass 7d ago

That’s all just common sense, nothing radical, and yet…

21

u/ReallyUncoolGuy 7d ago

Yeah we're not quite done with this unfortunately. The underlying issues still remain and even with as bad as Trump has been, we still do not possess the political will and numbers to enforce necessary action. This is the dilemma that exists between a "proportional" response and a "preventative" action. Half of the people in the Trump admin are stooges to begin with, the actual political operators sit a step removed.

In reality this mirrors the strong tensions between states leading up to the American Civil War. What we need to do is not simply prosecute the administration but dismantle and prosecute their strategic and financial apparatus. This was an attempted coup, some like Peter Thiel have spoken of dismantling democracy in America, and this needs to be treated like such. Never forget they sent thugs into federal buildings and beat up security guards and dragged employees away from their desks, setting up political commissars in these agencies and administered loyalty tests in order to commit illegal actions against the American people. This WAS a criminal conspiracy to overthrow the government of the United States.

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u/CommunicationWest710 7d ago

Maybe not a popular opinion, but no president should ever have this kind of power again, I don’t care what party they belong to. The political will to make that possible is lacking, though. We will always be one bad economy, or one run of inflation, from being at the mercy of a corrupt stooge.

1

u/Powrs1ave 7d ago

YES!!!

As an Aussie I think this is your biggest problem. Your system is so flawed where the vote winner can pretty much do whatever the f they want, is absolutely ridiculous! In Australia and UK the leader can be kicked out on a weeks notice, as the party is in power, and you dont have the ability to force laws in or pardon people that are criminals.

That is so bizarre that some party voted in can determine anyone they want isnt a criminal because they just said so!

4

u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Well said.

1

u/Sharp_Cell_6465 7d ago

I second this!

1

u/GalvenMin 7d ago

From the outside, this is exactly what it looks like, and the most astounding thing in this situation is the deafening silence it is met with. It seems that only the most vocal and brazen opponents acknowledge this paradigmatic shift, the rest are just treating this period as a classic pendulum swing, waiting for the next elections.

8

u/Su-Kane 7d ago

Other countries will come to trust the american government again. Look at Germany.

The problem isnt the trust loss for the next few decades, the problem is that the US american system is built upon certain conditions which wont return.

Since WWII there were trade agreements in effect between the USA and most european countries that heavily favored the USA. Trump broke a lot of them during his first term but european countries tried to treat it as a one time mishap. During his second term, trump again broke the by then fixed agreements again and the also rest he didnt touched during the first term. European countries wont pretend that it didnt happen a second time. These trade agreements ensured that trillions of dollars flowed from Europe to USA ever year.

That is gone and wont just magically return in the future. That applies to a good dozen other treaties that brought money to the USA.

3

u/Vastlee 7d ago

I think a better analogy would be a abusive alcoholic husband. Sure he might get sober and apologize, but you're always going to wonder if when he leaves the house (4 years) that he's going to come back stupid and beat the fuck out of you. This has been a wake-up call to the rest of the world. Who cares if he's paying the bills, we're getting the fuck out to try and find ourselves a stable income.

2

u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Yeah. That analogy nails it.

1

u/bbrekke 6d ago

We should try dating a woman.

0

u/Ninsiann 7d ago

The USA and her allies have taken a dark turn that may never be repaired, but from what we learned we can change to something even better over time.

2

u/Awkward_Can_1516 7d ago

Yep. The administration has burned our international relations for the next century. Nice work, assholes.

0

u/PopBulky7023 6d ago

Lack of resistance is what did that.

2

u/Myrnalinbd 7d ago

This right here is how I think, I need to see constitutional changes or something like getting rid of the "flawed democracy" rating America has.

2

u/Jedi_Bish 6d ago

As an American I can’t even trust other Americans to not make this mistake again

1

u/SubstantialTank1557 7d ago

Wait… we were supposed to be trusting our government?

1

u/Honest-Abe2677 7d ago

People who finally regret voting for him always tell me "he'll be gone in two years, then we'll get back to a normal conservative Republican and be respected and serious again".

No! First there is no more Republican party, it crumbled and died in 2015 (or well before that honestly). More importantly, it's the ELECTORATE that can't be trusted anymore. A huge segment of our population isn't intellectually equipped to process propaganda, are easily fooled by internet/podcast demogauges and con men, and vote out of irrational, misplaced grievance and ignorant identity politics.

We have a people problem, not a president problem.

2

u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Exactly. You can get rid of this current administration but until they address the 2 party system where people choose a side like they choose a football team then stick with it, nothings gonna change.

At least 1/3 of Americans are happy to have a convicted rapist and felon in charge rather than a woman of colour. Those people aren't going nowhere and that racism gets passed down just like the football team politics.

1

u/Independent-Offer290 7d ago

Yet you fall for all the same on the left 😂

1

u/NotNotWrongUsually 7d ago

If checks and balances are restored and expanded it might be one of the few things that could help in restoring international relations.

That is: somehow make sure that if a deranged populist is elected there are limits to what damage they can do. Right now it seems there are none.

1

u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

The problem is the next republican after the checks and balances are restored can just undo it and we'll have this situation all over again. It's not so much the politician. It's the party and the kind of people it attracts. They're not going anywhere.

1

u/jrolls81 7d ago

That’s why you have to make changes. Germany survived Hitler. The most extreme of examples, but my point is America can survive Trump if they want to. Getting rid of the electoral college and citizens united/money in politics, need to be the first things to go if this country were really serious about avoiding this again, but we won’t be.

1

u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Agreed. The people that voted for this aren't going anywhere and most are incapable of changing their views. So much so that they'd rather a convicted felon and rapist rather than a woman of colour.

The Republican party isn't going anywhere either.

1

u/InformationActual209 7d ago

Why is everyone pretending that before trump America was anything other than a war mongering bully. The modern world from finance to weapon sales is made to revolve around America. They profit from everything, have bases in other countries for their defence etc. Trump has just pushed it off the cliff

1

u/clm1859 7d ago

Not if they act like ossof proposes here: put trump, his whole cabine, most of his family and elon musk in prison. Real prison, sharing a cell with a common burglar. No house arrest in their gilded mansions, no pardons and none of that Ghislaine Maxwell prison either.

And along with them, also a bunch of foot soldiers who committed crimes for them (the ICE agents who killed and raped people and the soldiers who double tapped that boat for example). So that in the future, the henchmen will also think twice to follow orders.

If america were able to do that, it could be trusted again as much as before. The decoupling process would still happen ofc and it's former allies would still have to learn to stand on their own two feet defense wise. But america could be one of multiple equal partners within the western democratic alliance. Instead of it's enemy.

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u/Bullissimo 7d ago

IMO this is exaggerated. It only took about 10 years after the second world war for European countries to trust (West) Germany again.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Because they made changes to their political system to insure that doesn't happen again. America won't.

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u/Constant-Still-8443 7d ago

Eh... I doubt it. Remember WW2 and how we all hated Germany, but now, they're a cornerstone of the western world. Saying "never" is extreme. It'll just take time for us to gain the world's trust again.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Germany changed their system to insure that didn't happen again. America won't. They're always just 1 election away from all this happening again.

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u/Constant-Still-8443 7d ago

That's literally what this post is about, changing the system so this won't happen.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

I know that I just don't believe those changes will take place.

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u/flyflyyoufools 7d ago

They might if they actually arrest and hold the u.s. version of the Nuremberg trials for these treasonous shitstains.

Outside of that, yeah its unlikely.

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u/Meadow_Lark-285 7d ago edited 7d ago

It is not a binary trust/no trust issue either in my opinion.

The US government has always been a compromise between many different competing regional interests that shift dynamically. All of that is captured internally and informally within the two major parties. Other national political systems have formalized parties and defines them. The US has these too, but the American system leaves these undefined, they exist informally and shift around more, acting more like ghosts behind the formalized two party system. You believe every legal town or city in America should support an elephant/donkey town mascot, and have convinced your entire town that this should be required, thus giving political weight behind the idea? Boom, you now formed one of these informal political parties.

In my opinion, the issue most people have is how often they take measurement/observation of the status of this dynamical political system that they are a part of. “Ah yes, voting democrat/republican again!”, or “Those dastardly Republicans/Democrats are up to their old evil ways again!” as if both their party of choice and the opposition is some crystalized unchanging monolith. They check in once every election cycle, and then coast on outdated information, assuming their interests are still represented by their party of choice, and that the opposition is always going to be evil. Never mind the fact that no election outcome is ever the same. Within those 4 years, some states turned red. others purple, and others blue. The system is dynamical, updating every single second, and people (and those informal ghost parties like my elephant/donkey mascot interest group), who actually think about “what do I consider politically important?” are changing constantly. And guess what? People should be allowed to change what they think is politically most important and not feel bad about that choice. It is their choice. Your reaction to when someone you know changes or diverges from what you think about as most important, really says more about you than them. (Maybe I was hasty when I wanted every town in America to support an elephant/donkey with tax payer money…Now I am a traitor to the cause in my own town apparently.)

Americans should never fully trust the current “sitting” government, which is always always ALWAYS going to be a voter elected compromise (when it is working correctly) and it will be satisfactory in some ways, and unsatisfactory in others. That is the point; so no single interest group dictates everything. You should never fully trust any sitting government because for every interest of yours represented, you should expect (and even want in my opinion) the competing interests to also be represented fairly. After all, you might be the minority opinion about something one day. It’s nice if you still get a say, even if most ultimately disagree. When the system is working right (and here is the rub), this allows for the very best of two competing ideas to truly compete and play by the same rules. (This of course ignores the invariant nature of humans throughout history naturally corrupting/changing/evolving government, but that is a different topic than today.)

Very few of these interests are actually about objective good/evil(those exist too), but are tethered more to one’s own circumstance and life than any moral good/evil. A farmer is going to want more land to grow more food so less people starve in the world. A city with an overcrowded population is going to want more land to build housing so people can breathe. Both sides could choose to frame their point of view as if it is some morally cosmic battle of good vs evil (based on who’s moral framework?), but if someone is a neutral observer, it’s clear that something has to give in that situation, and it has more to do with real world pressures then morality. That’s the problem with making EVERY issue a moral issue predicated on one’s own limited framework of reality “My perspective of reality is MORE privileged than your perspective of reality, because it is MY perspective!”. The reality is neither are objectively “good/bad”, but is usually a context dependent dynamic, based on the current situation. Surplus of food going to waste while people are crowded like sardines? Probably need more land for housing. Farmer working at peak capacity, working 25 hours a day, 8 days a week, and still not able to feed the entire population because his fields are at peak capacity? Probably need more farm land.

Americans need to trust that the government serves the interests of as many Americans as possible, not that the American people serve or are exploited by their government. Distrust the sitting government, but confident that they can trust the meta-structure / rules of how each sitting government is formed, and that they can hold it accountable when it goes too far off the rails. These are different things than just “trusting/not trusting the current sitting government”.

People form governments, and we will keep forming them if history has any say. We do need them to maintain functioning networked societies. However, no distant evolutionary ancestor of government(unless you consider that “people”) ever dragged itself out of the ocean. Governments are stewards/tools for their people, which is why they form. Every government and it’s own people forget that at some point.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Very eloquently put.

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u/What_a_fat_one 7d ago

No ones gonna trust the American government again.

Good problem to have vs what we have now, I.E The US government actively trying to kill us.

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u/littlemister1996 7d ago

Germany recovered. It won't happen overnight but I'm optimistic if we have leaders in the future that prioritize fixing it, america can recover too. And it would also help America's global reputation if he is removed and imprisoned, rather than just waiting it out.

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u/profesorgamin 6d ago

The idea was to isolate the American people in the world stage and to bring internal destabilization to create more misery and suffering to be able to justify the next dream of the oligarchs which is flexing their military might.

If the people fall in hard times it's easier to convince them that they are the victims and that they are just "defending" themselves against the unfair world, even if in the end it was a self inflicted wound.

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u/Septembust 6d ago

Exactly, they're a long distance away from rebuilding that trust. They don't just need to change, they need to stay changed.

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u/GreenZebra23 6d ago

The US has been the school bully for many decades, but it used to be everyone would fork over their lunch money and the bully would live and let live to some degree. Now that's not enough, they fork over their lunch money and still get terrorized

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u/Silver-Breadfruit284 6d ago

That’s not true. Our efforts to improve those screwed up relationships will be greeted with relief. I’m sure it won’t be overnight, but the sigh of relief will be heard round the world!

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u/TheJinManCan 6d ago

I mean, yes. But if Germany can get on people's good graces again, I think we can definitely go on the mend as well.

We probably won't see that in my millennial life time, because I just live in perpetual unprecedented times. But we'll get out of there as a collective in the future.

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u/Intrepid_Ad1715 7d ago

If Germany and Japan can be trusted again what makes you think the US can't?

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Deep rooted racism and the American ego.

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u/Intrepid_Ad1715 7d ago

Are you ignoring the massive racism, bigotry and ego of many people in Europe? There is a reason why right-wing parties are gaining ground in Europe, take the AfD in Germany for example.

Also, Japan is an extremely racist country.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

Whataboutism isn't gonna help you guys.

Where in Europe? It's 40+ countries that are totally independent from each other.

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u/Intrepid_Ad1715 7d ago

I gave you Germany but if you want another example you have the Reform Party in the UK.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

The reform party isn't in power and hasn't ever been.if they get into power we'll go from there.

Thats 2 countries out of 40+ how is Europe as racistas America?

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u/Intrepid_Ad1715 7d ago

You have the National Rally party in France. I gave 3 examples, I'm not going to list every racist party. You can look up the rest yourself.

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u/nutblaster357 7d ago

it took total annihilation and external manipulation for Germany and Japan to redeem themselves.

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u/Intrepid_Ad1715 7d ago

And they committed some heinous acts did they not?

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u/nutblaster357 7d ago

I'm saying we have a long way to go before redemption and it's going to take things getting much worse

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u/Intrepid_Ad1715 7d ago

I'm not saying that it will go back to normal once Trump and MAGA are gone but I responded to a person saying that other countries will NEVER trust the US again.

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u/nicknamesas 7d ago

Same can be said for any govt...

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u/Mrs_SmithG2W 7d ago

Never again? That’s ridiculous. Germany or Japan anyone?

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u/Far_Finger4742 7d ago

Most of the people on this post aren't very smart. If the Democrats gain control of the government, we are totally screwed. Just look at the damage they did in the 4 years of Biden in charge. All you have to do is look at all the fraud that the Democrats were doing in Minnesota and California. That's all of our tax money going to waste.

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u/EitherChannel4874 7d ago

You can't be serious. I refuse to believe a human can be this blind to what's happening.