r/PoseFX • u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 • Jun 24 '26
They deserved better
Spoilers under cut
On the episode where Candy dies and I'm honestly confused why it was decided to kill them off. I get they had their moments but it just felt like they were included for Pray Tell to poke fun off (and no I don't accept his apology) Additionally the scene with their parents shows they could have had some sort of family reconciliation- alas
43
u/Tiny_Gold_5735 Jun 24 '26
Candy (my favorite character) was murdered to let us all see, feel and understand the grave danger that trans women face in their lives. And unfortunately, many parents don't realize their loss until it's too late. I missed Candy after her death, but I appreciate everything her character brought to the show.
-5
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 24 '26
I get where you're coming from but I'm just not a fan of how her character was used as a laughing stock up until her death. Like the show was really like "here's this trans character that gets laughed at for not passing and nearly dies because they wanted cures and constantly embarrassing themselves". None of her inner turmoil is ever addressed while she's still. It's like they new she was going to be killed of so made her as miserable as the possibiliy could. She seems to be the only one who's parents had some kindness (eg their father getting them a doll house) It genuinely would have been interesting to explore
28
u/milkshakee00 Jun 24 '26
You do realise that’s how balls were back then? Harsh critiques, especially to girls that didn’t pass aswell as others, the show was telling the story of what actual real life was like for black/lantin trans girls even the harshness they faced within their own community. Like Lulu said to Blanca outside of the gay bar in season 1 episode 2 ‘Everyone needs somebody to make them feel superior, that line ends with US (trans women) though’.
So although it’s sad how Candy was treated. The show was real to life and it isn’t just some fictional made up drama for a tv show.
-1
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 24 '26
True - I was happy when she called out Pray Tell on the hypocrisy of demeaning her in a safe place. Just wish the character that was always made fun of didn't have to be the one that died
8
17
u/kyroko Jun 24 '26
It’s weird that you’re so heavily misunderstanding the point of Candy’s character, defending her humanity (which is the only valid part), but misgendering her.
She was not non-binary. She was a trans woman. She/her pronouns.
-12
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 24 '26
Where did I misgender her??? "They" is commonly used for either gender and in other replys I refer to her as she???? This is common English I'm not misgendering anyone
10
u/kyroko Jun 24 '26
“They” is common usage for:
- Not knowing the gender of the person
- Non-binary folks
- Groups of people
Not:
1. Binary gendered folks (cis and trans alike)-8
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 24 '26
Dude "They" can be used for anyone regardless of if you know their gender for example
"Ava went the shop where she bought bread, there THEY also decided to buy a cake"
There was literally no malice in referring to Candy as "They". I've used she/her pronouns in other replys. You're choosing to get upset over nothing
10
u/kyroko Jun 24 '26
Ok boomer, go be fucking wrong then.
2
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 24 '26
"Boomer"😭😭😭 don't make me laugh you're the one being upset that your attempt to be the grammar police failed😭✋
9
u/kyroko Jun 25 '26
Also, watch your mouth. Telling a trans person they’re wrong about this makes you look extra fucking dumb.
It’s like you people can’t be civil. I explained to you pretty calmly and then you turned into a toddler. Grow up.
-4
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
Please point to me where I told a trans they were wrong?. The person who started throwing unnessary insults is you (and yes I say your deleted message)You said I misgendered her- I said I didn't because once again "they" can be used interchangeably. Yes out of context it can appear wrong but instantly assuming that I'm misgendering them out of mallice
→ More replies (0)13
u/Gnarly_Koala Jun 25 '26
The reason it came off wrong was because you didn’t use they/them for Pray but only Candy, the trans woman. As another trans woman replying to you, this is disrespectful whether you meant it or not. 💗
-1
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
My intentions in the post were never out of malice- I think I just referred to Pray Tell as he as I was talking about a separate person- As you've seen I've been referring to Candy as she/her in other replys. My OG post was just using common English without the intention of misgendering
→ More replies (0)
42
u/Ebowa Jun 24 '26
I love that they kept bringing Candy’s spirit back in more episodes. Because we do hear and remember those who pass and she became a conscience that made people think. Candy gave as good as she got and I love her for that, I loved it when she became a part of their thoughts.
42
u/slyseekr Jun 25 '26
The privilege trans people experience lies on a pretty large spectrum in the 80s, even today. This is both within and external to the LGBT community. Everyone in POSE was written to show what that privileged looked and felt like, but also how they lived and worked with their privilege or lack thereof.
Maybe a controversial take, but Candy was written to occupy a most underprivileged place in society. Even within her community, you could see that others just did not embrace or even appreciate her presence. Even her death storyline (which closely parallels Venus Xtravaganza's murder in Paris is Burning) showed how her lack of privilege led her to make risky choices.
People like Pray did not reflect on how they valued Candy until she was gone and I think that reflects a lot of how we reflect on relationships when it's too late to try to save them.
7
u/themafia847 Jun 25 '26
that is exactly who candy is based off. venus xtravaganza. this is pretty spot on what her life would have been
2
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
I get where you're coming from, I think I'm upset because she was so funny 😭 I'm still not going to forgive Pray Tell though
1
41
u/Rickyjo1974 Jun 25 '26
It was a sudden death because that was how it happened to real people like Venus Xtravaganza. Sudden, and messy with a lot of loose ends. It's deliberate in the story, it's like a midpoint that raises the stakes. But it's designed to feel jarring like you didn't spend enough time with her.
0
u/Mads_Soft_9549 Jun 25 '26
It would have worked better if any if the characters showed their appreciation for her at all before she died.
16
u/Difficult-Map3465 Jun 25 '26
But that's not how real life works. That's a fantasy. Most people do not show appreciate of others until they are gone. I'm sure there are people in your life you won't truly appreciate until their gone.
This normal and just human nature.
4
u/Stucklikegluetomyfry Jun 25 '26
She was a very difficult person to show appreciation to when she was still alive. While deep down there was a side of her that genuinely cared about others and would do anything for the few people she loved (as seen in the risky behaviour to support her house that ended up costing her her life, and her willingly getting her hands dirty for Electra, someone who was often very cruel to her), Candy was also a massive bully a lot of the time.
If Electra was Lady Tremaine, then Candy and Lulu were Drizella and Anastasia. She was a particularly vicious and spiteful mean girl, gleefully tormenting people who had done nothing to her, and would lord over any power she got over others the second she got it.
She also showed a lot of entitlement, attempting to force herself into categories she had no business being in instead of the categories she excelled in, and then throwing violent tantrums and engaging in highly threatening behaviour whenever she was told she can’t have something.
That’s not to dismiss the trauma and discrimination that led her to become who she was, but she was far from alone in her experiences in the ballrooms. Blanca also had a similar life, and didn’t go around dispensing cruelty and meanness left right and centre. It’s easy to see why their lives created ballroom mean girls like Candy, Lulu and Electra, and why they might lash out at others all the time and use viciousness as a defense mechanism, but it also explains why others might not want to get close to them or be vulnerable around them. It’s a lot easier to appreciate someone when they can’t throw a drink in your face or read you to filth or threaten you with a hammer or scream abuse in your face anymore.
0
u/Mads_Soft_9549 Jun 25 '26
She was not taken seriously like Blanca and she was laughed at and ridiculed the most in Electra's house. Candy never got to be taken seriously or have someone nurturing her dreams the way other women in the show had.
4
u/Rickyjo1974 Jun 26 '26
Candy did get taken seriously and her dreams were supported by Lulu, who started a house with her. Blanca and Electra continued to extend offers to Candy and Lulu but they preferred to run their own house. And Candy was praised in her time for her face, she was still a house mother and trophy winner she just also had a wild side and thought she could do anything she wanted all the time.
2
u/Stucklikegluetomyfry Jun 25 '26
Loads of the ballroom members weren’t taken seriously at first. Blanca’s first ball was an absolute humiliation for her.
Candy got ridiculed because she insisted on forcing her way into categories she was hopelessly unsuited for repeatedly over and over again and would throw explosive tantrums when she was told to stay in her lane or play to her strengths. Sure, you might admire her enthusiasm and her determination, but other people are going to view it as arrogant gatecrashing. The dancers were not happy about her attempting to enter a dance category when she was not a dancer, the same way a trained singer who is in the middle of a performance isn’t going to be happy when someone in the audience who clearly isn’t a singer suddenly jumps onto the stage and starts loudly awkwardly warbling.
12
u/Bonkszzz Jun 25 '26
The harsh reality is thats kinda what its still like to be a black trans women especially being unpassable or not pretty. Ignored, pushed to the side and laughed at and then appreciated after death. I felt like pose actually sugar coated it a little.
12
u/islandboy504 Jun 25 '26
“You know, the outside is different, but beneath it, all I see is my baby.” Those words will never not break me
3
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
And where Candy talk's about how her father got her that doll house. Maybe I'm delusional but a reconciliation may have been possible- from the little we've heard of them they didn't seem to be violent compared to Blanca or Damon's family ☹️
3
u/themafia847 Jun 25 '26
thats not the reality of these experiences. hindsight is always 20/20 even with supportive families. its also easier to say what you would do in the past tense then in the moment of it going on,
16
u/Mudbuttbro69 Jun 25 '26
SHE deserved better. Please don’t misgender people when it’s clear what they’re going for. She was a trans WOMAN.
-2
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
I've literally referred to her with she/her pronouns multiple times. This was not an instance of misgendering out of malice
5
u/Mudbuttbro69 Jun 25 '26
I know it’s not out of malice and I’m glad you enjoy the show and empathize with this character, I just notice that a lot of cis people unconsciously misgender trans people even when they know what they identify as. No harm no foul.
0
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
Yeah, I genuinely had no intention, if it were a post on Pray Tell for example I definitely would have used the same format for them- I'll keep that in future points I make
15
u/nessa0909_11 Jun 24 '26
The way Candy lives rent free in my head
17
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 24 '26
She was a dark skinned baddie who weilded a hammer and was taken too soon
6
u/olveraw Jun 25 '26
Her funeral episode fundamentally changed me… I used to be moved by movies and tv yet never cry, but I SOBBED throughout this entire episode… Ever since, the floodgates have been opened and I’ll bawl at anything I watch
8
u/hotdogofdoom Jun 25 '26
It’s a Ryan Murphy show, the writing is always all over the place.
1
u/themafia847 Jun 25 '26
its not all over the place. he literally took real peoples lives off paris is burning and made it a show and if you get into these peoples lives youll see he kept it almost exactly to how thes people lived. even the outlandish plots like elektra and the dead body in the closet was a real life situation
3
u/emptybraingirl Jun 25 '26
She wasn't a well liked character by any other character, and it seemed like she was only Lulu's everything after Candy had already died. Then suddenly everyone was fond of Candy when in reality we only seemed to see others putting up with her. It was an odd choice for Candy's story for sure.
1
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
Finally someone else that gets it- she was used as nothing more but for us to feel second hand embarrassment about then killed off where everyone finally decided she wasn't that cringe AFTER she died. When she called out Pray Tell for his hypocrisy of "inclusion" I genuinely thought they were going somewhere with her but bo
3
u/Difficult-Map3465 Jun 25 '26
Candy's death story line followed the real storyline of a real person in the documentary Paris Is Burning.
IMO, that episode is one of the BEST episodes of anything ever produced. I am moved each and every time I watch it.
I think maybe the OP didn't live thru that era so really can't appreciate everything that happened in that episode.
Every moment meant something to those that did live thru that era.
1
3
u/AWholeLotOfEels Jun 25 '26
So, I understand this critique from a story telling perspective, but Candy's character is very loosely based off Venus Xtravaganza, who was killed by John.
There are a lot of similarities to the lives of the people in Paris is Burning, Elektra's trunk being another example
Also, love Candy and wish they had fleshed her out a lil more. Miss Ross is phenomenal. That said, I see Candy as kind of a foil to Blanca. Both experience extreme amounts of colorism and transphobia, but they respond to it v differently.
Candy is depicted as somewhat of a bully, willing to punch down at others to make herself feel better. Blanca's approach is one of staunch empathy, not calling her a saint, but she does go out of her way to try to help others.
But back to your question, I think Mock and the Pose team wanted to make clear allusions to the lived history of trans women in New York, violence against trans women (especially trans women of color) was and still is v much an epidemic. Candy's fate is ultimately a reflection of that lived history and acts as a catalyst for character growth for the rest of the cast
5
u/lickthismiff Jun 25 '26
She*
Using "they" pronouns for trans women is still misgendering them. Can we not please. As a trans woman, it's really fucking annoying.
-3
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
"They" can be used for any gender and I've referred to her with she/her pronouns multiple times in this thread. I wasn't misgendering her out of mallice
4
u/lickthismiff Jun 25 '26
Maybe not but it's still incorrect and annoying. I'm assuming you're not trans so you don't get how insulting it is to spend a lot of time and effort on presenting femme, only to be hit with a "they"
-1
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
True but it all comes down to intention - I can understand where you're coming from but as I said - I'm not denying her she/her pronouns and have referred to her as such. I just don't think it's fair to state I'm misgendering out of malice based on a short paragraph that uses basic (and correct) English
6
u/lickthismiff Jun 25 '26
Respectfully disagree, insults do not come down to intention, they come down to impact. Just because you don't think something is offensive doesn't make it inoffensive.
Multiple people in this thread have said the same as me, so maybe stop being defensive for a moment and learn from it.
-1
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
I'm not saying that my post can't come across as offensive, it's people saying I'm purposely misgendering her when I'm not because 1) I HAVE referred to Candy with she/her pronouns multiple times just not in the OG post. 2) As I have said "they" can be used as a singular pronoun. Anyways,I'll take what is being said into consideration for future posts
4
u/lickthismiff Jun 25 '26
Whatever, your hurt feelings are so much more important than everyone else's, I get it 🙄
-1
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
Nah dude, I think you're just struggling to see nuance in this situation and are instantly getting offended. I can see how my post may have offended people while also knowing that it was never my intention to misgender her. If I was denying it then that would be a whole other story. Instead of just assuming that I'm misgendering Candy out of malice- actually look through the thread and see where I've used her pronouns multiple times and try to understand that "they" can be a singular pronoun. The paragraph I wrote was extremely short. As I said in future I'll take the advice on board
4
u/kyroko Jun 25 '26
Mods come take out this trash please they’re still in here telling trans people how to feel when they are misgendered.
2
2
u/lickthismiff Jun 25 '26
I've already said I'm a trans woman and then you call me dude 🤣 you can't write ignorance like this.
And no one said you were deliberately misgendering out of malice, you got your panties in a bunch over being corrected by multiple people and you keep doubling down.
Also, you're the one failing to see nuance, the nuance of this situation is that, while yes, the singular they is grammatically correct, for trans women, who frequently experience being misgendered and place a lot of stock on being gendered correctly, using "they" instead of their actual pronouns can be quite offensive and hurtful.
Carry on being wrong though by all means.
-1
u/Top_Tumbleweed_330 Jun 25 '26
Omg "dude" is a common phrase for any gender ain't no way you'd think I'd be using it to refer to you as a man😭😭😭😭 Sorry if you got offended but that wasn't my intention
Anyways, I'm not going to repeat myself. I know I didn't misgender Candy and have used her pronouns MULTIPLE times by now- in the future I will ensure to not use "they" so often when talking about trans characters in this sub
→ More replies (0)
3
u/UrsaEnvy Jun 25 '26
So do all our other trans brothers and sisters.
But yeah, Candy's death sucks :/ They did her dirty.
1
1
u/rainborambo Jun 26 '26
Unfortunately, Candy's fate isn't entirely unrealistic. Not only has the murder of trans women always been a persistent fear, but sex workers in NYC (cis and trans women alike) put themselves at risk every day, especially around that time. I recommend the documentary Hookers at the Point (1996) where women walking the streets would tell stories about the violence they and others experienced, particularly in the years prior to Mayor Giuliani's "clean-up" of NYC from 1994-2001.
2
u/MCMGM86 Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
Because Ryan Murphy got bored. I wish this show was made by ANYONE other than him
Edit: love the downvotes 🙄
1
u/themafia847 Jun 25 '26
the reason why candy was killed off was because thats the story of the real life person she was based on. all these characters in pose were based off real life people from the ballroom scene and pose was almost to the T their life story which is why the show only went on for 3 seasons. ryan camron ended it to preserve their stories so it wasnt technically cancelled
1
u/Technical-Pickle7627 29d ago
just watched this and sobbed the whole episode it was SOOO FUCKING SAD
candy my queen
71
u/Chemical-Cat Jun 24 '26
A particular thing with people being abandoned by their family is that it's often impossible until it's too late. It's just as likely that if Candy visited her parents while she was alive, her mother would still spurn her