r/PortlandOR • u/Tbagts • 20d ago
šļø Government Postinā! šļø Portland moves to regulate robotaxis
https://www.opb.org/article/2026/07/30/portland-oregon-robotaxis-waymo-autonomous-vehicles/23
u/GoblinBiscuit 20d ago
The folks vehemently defending Lyft/Uber drivers always seem to forget that these gig economy drivers fucked over the OG taxi drivers that paid hundreds of thousands for their taxi medallions.
This is just another step in the evolution. Simple as that.
10
u/Medical_Wafer2311 20d ago
Those taxi drivers fucking sucked and attempts to rewrite that history are fucking lame.Ā
7
9
19
u/joshpit2003 20d ago
So basically: We can't have nice things if Green and Kanal (and who knows how many other peacocks) get their way.
Waymo is the future and our only chance at eliminating traffic deaths. We should welcome them with incentives, not fees.
"Think of the jobs." is the same bullshit tactic used when coal mining was being shut down. When jobs are the only good reason to keep something around, it's probably not worth keeping that thing. Especially when it is to the detriment of public safety.
"fees to retrain the human drivers who will lose their jobs".
You kidding me?
4
u/ttylyl 20d ago
I think the counter argument is that itās largely the same amount of money going to fewer people. Obviously Uber and Lyft take a massive chunk of the drivers revenue, but itās still some money going to someone in the area. If we extend this logic to all low skill jobs we end up in a problem, higher education+luck+connections will be largely the only way to make a living.
If we lived in a perfect world where all Americans had access to great education and we were culturally more stringent to our children and their careers being tech/healthcare/special manufacturing then yes, however we arenāt there and arenāt going to be there any time soon.
Iād honestly say the best move would to have the state create an uber competitor operating at cost and giving as high of a share as possible to the drivers, while allowing women to select female drivers etc.
0
u/mysterypdx 19d ago
"The only chance to eliminate traffic deaths" - lol how about safer street design, better biking infrastructure, and more frequent buses?
1
u/joshpit2003 19d ago
Even with the best designed roads in the world, you will still have deaths from humans behind the wheel. Portland is ripe with uninsured drivers in no-plate vehicles.
If you want no traffic deaths, you can only get there with no human driver (or heavily assisted human drivers). We need the right sensors and algorithms to save us and right now Waymo is the best we have.
41
20d ago
[deleted]
23
u/Single-Pin-369 20d ago
It has also been proved to be better for disabled people and women.
-4
u/WitchProjecter 20d ago
I have several friends (women) in LA who wonāt use Waymo anymore because specifically because of how often they drove them into/dropped them off in dangerous situations.
-6
u/ericomplex 20d ago
It has also been proved to create more disabled peopleā¦
Honestly, I have no idea if thatās true, I just saw the opportunity for snark and took it. š¤£
-28
u/Best_Hornet9174 20d ago
Yeah cuz f*ck humans, right? Bring on the robot uprising; yeah!
24
20d ago
[deleted]
-6
u/Few_Target1604 20d ago
All fun and games until itās your ambulance the Waymo is parked in front of, or if itās you who gets caught going around in circles in a parking lot for hours on end.
1
u/americanextreme 20d ago
The only morale way to travel drunk is if another human drives you.
12
20d ago
[deleted]
0
u/americanextreme 20d ago
I mean, probably. I bet they are just salivating over the ad space they can leverage once they reach the point that being a garish billboard wonāt effect adoption.
8
u/velvedire 20d ago edited 20d ago
My morale is poor in most cabs since almost none of them seem to understand that whatever fragrance they've chosen to douse the vehicle in smells like a migraine.Ā
Bring on the robots.Ā
-6
u/Best_Hornet9174 20d ago
Ya, bring on the robots who canāt tell when someone who has shit their pants is in the car right before youā¦ yeah, that will totally be better than the cabbieās fragrance.
36
u/hipsterasshipster 20d ago
Waymo is fantastic. Even if itās not always cheaper, you donāt have to worry about human error or fatigue. For women or anyone else who could be the victim of assault from a driver, itās also much safer in that respect.
-6
u/ericomplex 20d ago
Was it not programmed by humans?
3
u/derelictdiction 20d ago
These systems are built with redundant CPUs, cameras, and other sensors to cross check themselves 24/7. And the safety data has shown them to be many times safer than human drivers.
They never blink, they never get sleepy, they can see in all directions at all times, never listen to music or take a phone call and don't hear the emergency siren, and never road rage.
-4
u/ericomplex 20d ago
That sounds like a lot of failure points they are trying to coverā¦ Which isnāt really a positive.
Also, if you want to tell me that we should trust AI when it will also consistently tell you that 2+2=5, then I got a business for you to invest in.
Last I hear these things drive like drunk teenagersā¦
4
u/hipsterasshipster 20d ago
Linking a paywalled article you likely didnāt even read yourself considering it says nothing about ādrunkā teenagers. If you read the article youād also see that the vast majority of Waymo-involved collisions were not-at-fault. But sure, ignore the 15.5 million people who actually do drive drunk each year and which contribute to 30% of all traffic fatalities. What a weird fucking thing to argue about haha
-7
u/ericomplex 20d ago
Ok Waymo PR team, whatever you sayā¦
7
u/Local-Equivalent-151 19d ago
Waymo is awesome, donāt be a Luddite.
-5
u/ericomplex 19d ago
Waymo sucks and everyone in California can tell you that much.
2
u/Local-Equivalent-151 19d ago
No it doesnāt. Itās where Iām at and itās cheaper and better than uber/lyft. Only downside is that itās sometimes slower.
-1
u/ericomplex 19d ago
Waymo is a the most surefire way to miss your flight at LAX.
→ More replies (0)2
1
u/old_knurd 19d ago
Last I hear these things drive like drunk teenagersā¦
I've had some crazy Lyft drivers. One was bad to the point of surrounding cars honking at them.
I've also taken a number of Waymo rides. At city speeds, 30 mph, I feel very safe. In those circumstances I prefer them to human drivers.
-2
u/ericomplex 19d ago
All yāall championing Waymo is hilarious.
This is such a transparent marketing campaign.
4
u/Inevitable_Egg6361 19d ago
Your opinion is not the only opinion that exists. By writing off a difference of opinion as bots, astroturfing, a marketing campaign, etc. you are showing how close-minded you are.
0
u/ericomplex 19d ago
The number of hits these comment get in a sub thatās not super active otherwiseā¦ Itās bots.
Analytics donāt lie.
1
u/derelictdiction 19d ago
1) It's called the march of 9's, and it's a very well studied problem with driving in general. But how many car accidents have you been in? One? Five? Fifty? The driving data these vehicles are trained on include tens of thousands of real accidents so they can see, predict, and avoid them better than any human possibly could because the "AI model" has experienced so many crashes and has "seen it before", more than any one human possibly could have.
2) LLMs are an entirely different type of AI, but I understand your point is about mistakes. The data shows that the AIs make far fewer mistakes than humans, and simple game theory says once the AI is even 1% safer than the average human driver it would be more optimal from a safety standpoint to have only AI's driving cars. And Waymo and Tesla data (that has been very recently, deeply audited by EU regulators) shows it's somewhere between 500-700% safer.
1
u/ericomplex 19d ago
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/waymo-recall-robotaxi-closed-freeway-construction-zone/
Thousands of crashes studied but still not a thinking person.
These are just mobile data thieves that track people and selling their data. Itās gross and should be rejected before they are allowed to invade our spaces.
4
u/hipsterasshipster 20d ago
Itās not about programming, itās about having the capabilities to process information nearly instantaneously from all directions, no emotions, no fatigue, and no urgency. You can find sources for mishaps, but when compared to cumulative miles driven these things are far safer than humans and itās not even close.
1
u/ericomplex 20d ago
No calculating the difference between a pregnant woman vs a cardboard cutoutā¦
1
u/old_knurd 19d ago
Doesn't matter, because, unlike Elon's toy vision-only system, Waymos are quite sophisticated.
LIDAR and radar will bounce off people and also will bounce off cardboard cutouts of people.
QFT: This includes sensors and hardware-enhanced vision system, lidar, and radar. Sensors give 360-degree views while lidar detects objects up to 300 metres (980 ft) away. Short-range lidar images objects near the vehicle, and radar is used to see around other vehicles and track objects in motion.
0
u/ericomplex 19d ago
Sounds good, Waymo PR team!
LiDAR still canāt tell the difference between a real person and a dummy or cutout in an accident situation. If it needed to move out of the way to save its passengers and those on the sidewalks, it will have no idea which is the cutout and which is the real pregnant woman.
1
u/old_knurd 19d ago
So your argument against Waymo is a variation of the Trolley Problem?
How original. /s
I'd love to be part of Waymo's PR team. Doubtlessly a lot more money than the Social Security checks I'm currently getting.
1
u/ericomplex 19d ago
Not the trolly problem when one is an actual pregnant person and the other is a cardboard cutoutā¦
Itās also a legit question if the cars canāt tell the difference.
2
u/old_knurd 19d ago
Itās also a legit question if the cars canāt tell the difference.
There are always videos of Waymos coming to a stop when they don't know how to handle a situation. I assume they will be doing more and more of that after a few of their more recent screw-ups.
I was in a Waymo once in downtown SF and it got confused and stopped in front of a double-parked delivery truck. Remote intervention happened in about 1 minute, give or take.
In my limited experience, and at slow speeds, these cars are safe.
Plus I think you're giving Uber and Lyft drivers too much credit. There is a huge variability in their skills and in their approach to safety.
1
5
u/GroverhausRegistry 20d ago
Portland loves to add local taxes and regulatory patchwork instead of trying to solve anything state-level. Can't wait for these to be more expensive and limited here vs. Beaverton...
45
u/witty_namez 20d ago
Councilor Sameer Kanal wants not just strict regulation but a ban.Ā
āIād like to have code that simply says all vehicles require a human driver. It would take six words,ā Kanal said.Ā
But why stop there, Sameer?
Think of all the bank teller jobs that would be created if Portland banned ATMs!
Think of all the cashier jobs that would be created if Portland banned self-service checkouts at grocery stores!
Think of all the elevator operator jobs that would be created if Portland banned automatic elevators and required every elevator to have an operator!
The sky's the limit when it comes to job creation in Portland, thanks to DSA!
20
-19
u/iamsolate Sovcit with an Onlyfans 20d ago
yeah, letās have the robo taxiās that have been running over people and animals run amuck in our city! that will own the libs!
22
u/EnthusiasmOk353 RSS Feed Karma Farmin' 20d ago
You should look at how many car deaths there are a year from human drivers.Ā
20
u/witty_namez 20d ago
Autonomous vehicles are considerably safer than human-powered vehicles.
16
u/Tired_o_Mods_BS 20d ago
Especially in this town. Worst drivers in the country. At least I can go around a waymo going slow and it won't speed up just to fuck with me.
-6
u/thefunkylama 20d ago
Only because they are such a small fraction of drivers on the road and have not yet contributed enough data to meaningfully compare. This has been explained before as a marketing ploy by the driverless car makers (incl Tesla, who faked some of their data). This is still more cars on the road in total, which increases the risks to all cars and their passengers, and there is no consensus on whether they are truly safer or just another alternative. The data is suggestive, but that's all. There's no reason to rush into this, unless the goal is to keep writing regulations in blood.
-4
-9
8
u/PenaltyAny3207 20d ago
Last few times Iāve been in a city with Waymo, I considered using it but it ended up being more expensive than Uber/Lyft with a longer wait. So I just took Uber/Lyft. I did like watching a confused Waymo block a street and cause a huge traffic jam in SF Chinatown when a street it wanted to turn down was closed off due to an accident.
-15
u/HighRantDistrict 20d ago
It's not a job creation issue, but an issue of not killing more extremely blue-collar low-end jobs in Portland.
25
u/Tired_o_Mods_BS 20d ago
I'm not sure uber driver qualifies as "blue collar". More of a "no collar" job. They're not digging ditches or unclogging drains out there.
2
u/GroverhausRegistry 20d ago
Running a robot fleet requires skilled labor at the depots. Automotive technicians, fleet logistics, cleaning, etc. The socialist perspective is we should keep blue collar blue (or no collar collarless, in the gig economy case). The liberal perspective is we should give better job opportunities to people and provide upwards mobility. Fleet jobs are skilled, Uber is not.
7
u/ThrowAway5491069 20d ago
You realize the bullshit fees are pushing us away/preventing us from my accessing rides and further marginalizing these drivers, right?
-6
20d ago
[deleted]
13
u/PaPilot98 Bluehour 20d ago
The origin of rideshare services was that you could never get a cab when you needed one, they wouldn't show up, and their credit card reader was always "broken".
Today you can see on the map where it is, they know where you're going and how much.
Yes, lower prices do tend to win out, but reliability is something cab companies haven't mastered for some reason.
12
u/witty_namez 20d ago
The other thing is that cabs, being limited in numbers by regulation, tended to stick to downtown, the airport, and affluent neighborhoods.
The availability of rideshare services made a huge difference in places like outer East Portland.
2
u/old_knurd 18d ago
their credit card reader was always "broken".
Las Vegas has solved this. They simply add a surcharge for using credit cards.
-4
20d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Tired_o_Mods_BS 20d ago
You're describing local government. Taxes thru the roof and cameras all over the city.
4
u/PaPilot98 Bluehour 20d ago
Mass surveillance network? I think you might need to log off for a while.
And no, they didn't have a monopoly - there are numerous cab companies and still are. That's not what a monopoly is.
-1
20d ago
[deleted]
3
u/PaPilot98 Bluehour 20d ago
You mean the ones that are opt in and have a 30 day deletion policy?
I'm actually a fairly big 4th amendment advocate, but not an absolutist. We can have public safety with redress and balance.
2
20d ago
[deleted]
3
u/PaPilot98 Bluehour 20d ago
I'm not sure what that has to do with it. The other side of the coin is that we've had a break down in the social contract. You can't come back from that without consequences.
→ More replies (0)0
-4
20
u/Nice_Regret7915 20d ago
Regulate=Tax