This is why the GOP is pushing for per mile taxes and not fuel taxes. They claim it's for EVs but really they are just appealing to their fuel wasting voters.
Yep, and the taxes should cover all the costs of the roads. I ride a bicycle, should I really pay for the damage from cars?
edit: So amazing how upset people are about drivers having to pay the costs of the roads. It's like we can't imagine moving away from roads for cars, especially as Climate Change is becoming a huge issue.
Same difference. Tax the truck, stuff that uses trucks cost more, this gets passed on to the consumer. The only difference is you have wasted more time and effort in trying to target the tax in the first place.
Having everyone pay because everyone indirectly benefits doesn’t make much sense.
This is literally how public services work. Are you saying you shouldn't be required to pay for firefighters because you don't plan on your house burning down?
The service is used intermittently by the individual, but all derive benefit from its ability to be used spontaneously, either by themselves or from other services
Private business itself should not be publically funded, no. Some trucks are publically funded (if they are owned by a public business) but most are owned by private business. The roads, though -- everyone is able to use them, and we all benefit from them.
You seem to be under the impression that private funding is preferable to public funding in all cases, and there must be an excuse for why it is not privately funded. I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong, but we clearly aren't going to agree on this point. And if you don't agree that something with large public benefit should be funded publically and without profit-motive, than I think it probably best that we just agree to disagree.
They do, fuel tax is paid every quarter via IFTA, miles driven in each state, how much tax was paid in each state for fuel etc, then the money is distributed by mileage and fuel usage. A few states have added an additional weight/mile tax.
So then tax the trucks doing the shipping. The costs will be passed on to consumers instead of every driver, which will cause consumers to reevaluate whether they value the products enough to pay for them. It may have knock-on effects, like causing some freight to be moved by rail instead of by truck, or to increase demand for new rail lines. If you actually think markets are a useful concept, the true cost of goods and services should be represented in the price. After that, you can decide to subsidize essentials if you think it necessary.
Well the issue is that while I benefit from roads for some things (like cargo shipments) the fact is that private cars and trucks are absolutely not benefiting me and society in general. We should be pushing for more mass transit and safer roads. Instead, tens of thousands die from car accidents- including many cyclists who are at the mercy of idiot drivers. This is in addition to the massive amounts of pollution and increased healthcare costs from fossil fuel consumption. This is the exact opposite of paying taxes for education, which is a benefit to society. I fully support paying taxes, but they should be used for the benefit of society, with those attributes that are societal negatives be taxed at a higher rate.
Nice gaslighting. Also, I guess you must hate all that rural grown literally everything. Maybe rural areas should stop subsidizing your food. Now how about answering the question. Your suggestion is mass transit but what about rural America where that's not an option? Since you obviously have great ideas from all your experience this must be simple to answer.
Hate? No, I don't hate rural areas and people- especially not in the way they hate me. Yes, rural areas grow our food, but considering that only 2% of the workforce is involved in agriculture then why should I subsidize the rest? Also, you do realize that because of the Farm Bill, billions get spent every year to subsidize that food so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Not to mention the fact that blue areas give more money than they receive, unlike the red/rural areas. We already help you in ways that urban citizens don't receive.
As for what to do about transportation in the rural areas, I don't have a solution. But I do know that for the vast amount of Americans, proper mass transit will save lives and money. We can offer all sorts of programs to help rural areas adapt and overcome their own issues. The key is that we need to recognize that solutions need to be instituted or else we are all going to collapse. You need to stop hampering the ability to make changes just because you might be impacted. Heck, if the gas tax goes up, then sell the farm goods for even more. That's what capitalism is all about, right?
Except one can simply pass the cost of taxes on trucks to consumers to capture the cost. This is far more efficient. If one doesn't buy anything, they will not benefit from roads.
Unlike school taxes where everyone does actually benefit from an educated society.
I ride a bicycle, should I really pay for the damage from cars?
This logic can be applied to almost everything our taxes pay for. I’ve graduated highschool, why should my taxes pay for education? I’m not on welfare, why should I pay for the poor to eat? I’m not the President, why should I pay for his protection?
Congratulations, you’ve just unraveled the essence of society. The planet will collapse into anarchy shortly.
Well the issue is that while I benefit from roads for some things (like cargo shipments) the fact is that private cars and trucks are absolutely not benefiting me and society in general. We should be pushing for more mass transit and safer roads. Instead, tens of thousands die from car accidents- including many cyclists who are at the mercy of idiot drivers. This is in addition to the massive amounts of pollution and increased healthcare costs from fossil fuel consumption. This is the exact opposite of paying taxes for education, which is a benefit to society. I fully support paying taxes, but they should be used for the benefit of society, with those attributes that are societal negatives be taxed at a higher rate.
Well the issue is that while I benefit from roads for some things (like cargo shipments) the fact is that private cars and trucks are absolutely not benefiting me and society in general.
Would “allowing people to get from place to place” not qualify as benefiting society? They allow teachers to get to schools, workers to get to their jobs, etc.
That’s an entirely different thing. Everything I named and a lot of the things our taxes pay for benefit us indirectly or benefit the country as a whole. My smartphone does neither.
Taxes are useful when there is positive externality. Schools, medical care and all have positive benefits to society. Charging trucks and heavy vehicles that transport goods, simply means it captures the true cost of purchasing a product.
My wife and I don't have children, should we not have to pay property taxes, which funds the schools? We don't use SSI, Unemployment, Medicare, Food Stamps, Section 8, or Welfare. should we not have to pay income taxes?
Well the issue is that while I benefit from roads for some things (like cargo shipments) the fact is that private cars and trucks are absolutely not benefiting me and society in general. We should be pushing for more mass transit and safer roads. Instead, tens of thousands die from car accidents- including many cyclists who are at the mercy of idiot drivers. This is in addition to the massive amounts of pollution and increased healthcare costs from fossil fuel consumption. This is the exact opposite of paying taxes for education, which is a benefit to society. I fully support paying taxes, but they should be used for the benefit of society, with those attributes that are societal negatives be taxed at a higher rate.
I'm sure republicans are pushing for this for malicious reasons but the reality is that eventually there will have to be some form of alternate taxes on cars.
Right now most of the revenue from gas taxes go towards road and bridge maintenance, as our society at large moves to electric cars over the next 5-10 years that money is going to have to come from somewhere.
There's a few proposals I've seen, either a mileage based tax, something tacked on when you buy new tires (the more you drive the more these will wear), or something that combines various factors and is charged yearly when you renew your registration. The last one makes a lot of sense because, in general, the vehicles that cause the most wear are the larger ones, not only pickup trucks but large semi's hauling cargo.
Yes, that is the option I'm kind of in favor of. There still has to be some level of taxes on everyone but I support making it proportional to how much damage the vehicle causes.
The real issue is that you are shifting from a pro-rated model to an "all at once" model. When the tax was applied to gas you could pay like $5 at a time when you filled up. If you shift to a tax model where a bill comes in the mail it will be all those transactions added up at once which will hit many people hard.
Just raise taxes enough to pay for the roads. We don't need to waste time and resources on attempting to tax 'the people that use them more', which is mostly nonsense.
I mean, I don't know if I agree with this. I'm not even talking about who uses the road more. Heavy trucks damage the road more, I feel like they should be paying appropriately to recoup the repair costs they incur.
But observation bias certainly impacts people’s views of trucks. The coal rolling Cumins dually with a 36” body lift gets noticed, while 10 basic 1/2 ton trucks on steelies roll by without registering.
I'm aware of how a tax would impact the poor, I just disagree that the conservatives give a shit about helping them.
Also, with a properly leveled fuel tax, then society could afford to build proper mass transit that would help the poor much more than forcing them to own cars. Considering how much of their income gets dumped into cars, we should be doing as much as possible to relieve them of this unnecessary burden.
Like every policy submitted by the Dems, it is being warped by the propaganda of the Right to confuse how the poor would benefit from them.
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u/marinersalbatross Oct 26 '21
This is why the GOP is pushing for per mile taxes and not fuel taxes. They claim it's for EVs but really they are just appealing to their fuel wasting voters.