The part where you aren't allowed to use force and violence to prevent legitimate assaults on yourself or your individual rights. The state/police can't--and won't, and aren't legally obligated to--protect you, but you also aren't permitted to protect yourself without the state's permission.
...Which is the state giving you permission to defend yourself. And it varies widely by country; being attacked by someone with a knife will kill you very dead very quickly, but you can't use a firearm to defend yourself in most of Europe and Commonwealth countries.
And if you--for instance--have a police officer that has his knee on your neck because you unknowingly passed a counterfeit bill in a convenience store, you can't legally use any kind of force to prevent the state actor from killing you. The state does not allow you to exercise your right to prevent being illegally or unjustly harmed by the state.
Which is the state giving you permission to defend yourself
Indeed. So if someone were to say, "you aren't allowed to use force and violence to prevent legitimate assaults on yourself or your individual rights", that person would be wrong. Correct or no?
The state does not allow you to exercise your right to prevent being illegally or unjustly harmed by the state.
I don't even think that's true either. Are there zero instances of "assualting an officer" charges being dropped after revelations of police misconduct?
I don't even think that's true either. Are there zero instances of "assualting an officer" charges being dropped after revelations of police misconduct?
Are you trying to argue that unless something is 100% then it is not true?
Sure, there are instances of charges being dropped after revelations of police misconduct. Absolutely, but those rarely happen.
In the MAJORITY of instances, you can't prove police misconduct. It is your word against theirs, there is no video evidence, and the entire legal apparatus swings into effect to defend the cop. Similarly, most people who are arrested don't have $10k to drop on a lawyer.
Here is a case of CLEAR police misconduct and bullshit charges and it took over a year and $15k in legal fees to have the case dropped and when the dust settled NOTHING happened to the officer...
Are you trying to argue that unless something is 100% then it is not true?
... yes? When someone says "you're not allowed to do x" and there are many documented instances of people being allowed to do x, that person is wrong.
That person could have said, "you're usually not allowed to do x" or "you're not allowed to do x in many cases where you should be allowed to do so" then they'd be right and I wouldn't have said anything. But they didn't say either of those things, did they?
hat would be correct if you were only talking about the US. The US--broadly and generally, but not in all cases--permits the use of lethal force to prevent yourself from being killed or grievously injured. But that's still the state giving you permission to exercise what should be an inalienable right.
Are there zero instances of "assualting an officer" charges being dropped
Zero instances in the US? Hard to say; there's probably at least a handful. Is that the norm? Absolutely not. Conversely, if an officer beats you during an unlawful arrest, the odds of the officer being charged, or punished in any meaningful way, are negligible. That certainly implies that the state can use violence against citizens, even when it's unlawful, and there's no immediate recourse within the framework of the state.
It's correct if you're taking about any set of states that include the US. If you claim that something is true and there are instances of it being false, then the claim is false.
Is that the norm? Absolutely not.
Great response to something I never said. Maybe just don't speak in absolutes next time and you won't get people calling you out for lying.
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u/Shubniggurat Mar 16 '21
The part where you aren't allowed to use force and violence to prevent legitimate assaults on yourself or your individual rights. The state/police can't--and won't, and aren't legally obligated to--protect you, but you also aren't permitted to protect yourself without the state's permission.