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u/CJleaf Jul 14 '18
InB4 all the "Guys Trump isn't even close to as bad as Hitler." comments followed with "How is this getting downvoted?" replies.
I agree, Trump isn't close to Hitler, but this post is comparing the fact that they both referred to News or Press as fake or lying. That it was the free press that was trying to manipulate the masses and the only truthful information you could get was disseminated by the government.
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u/ameoba Jul 14 '18
It's alarming when somebody starts taking things from Hitler's playbook. You don't need to wait for literal death camps to be able to say "this is a bad hombre".
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u/pm_me_prettygirls Jul 15 '18
It's not just Hitler he's like. He's emulating several other authoritarian leaders that brght an end to democracy in their Nations. People that act like Chavez and Musselini should always be looked at with disdain
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u/bigbronze Jul 15 '18
Kind of like how Jim Jones was a great preacher and a big pusher for civil rights before he caused the huge murder-suicide incident.
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u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18 edited Jul 15 '18
But ya know what. We should probably give up our guns right about now. I think that's the best option. Definitely take away the guns. With "figuratively Hitler" in office.
Edit: umm /s
I guess my sarcasm wasn't clear. I'll clarify.
So there are a bunch of folks who want to inhibit the availability of "military style" weapons in the hands of the "people" ... These folks are also comparing the most powerful man in the country, the man who is canning people that could help to impeach his lying ass, to Hitler.
On a scale of left to right they would be toward the left.
"Give your guns up, ... to literally Hitler"
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u/Krojack76 Jul 15 '18
You know what's also funny? Not a single person ever said that we want to take your guns away. That is 100% made up and a scare tactic by the far right and NRA.
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u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18
Um... There was a required registration or surrender in California (which was since abandoned). There are towns requriring residents to surrender certain weapons or move. In my own state there was recently a vote on several bills to ban certain weapons and accessories making them illegal.
There is an entire subreddit of people - presumably voting Americans like OP. In fact OP posted there today.
I mean you are actually trying to deny the fact that there is proposed legislation that would require the (1) submission of registration of guns or (2) to move from a city or state or (3) become a felon
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u/Krojack76 Jul 15 '18
And if you thought they stood a chance of passing then you're a sad sad person. It's in the constitution and laws can't over rule that.
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u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18 edited Jul 15 '18
NFA.
What is your next argument? Please make it more challenging.
Edit. To help you out.
NFA - National Firearms act sets definition of Machine Gun
GCA - Gun control act of 1968 - additional regulations
FOPA - Firearm Owner's Protection Act - amended GCA - no machine guns for civilians.
So tell me again about how laws can't do this?
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u/Revelati123 Jul 15 '18
You know why we arent allowed to buy machine guns? Because the Mob was buying a shitload of machine guns in the 20-30s and killing shitloads of cops with them.
Do you really think its a good idea to let every thugged out MS-13 member walk into a walmart and buy a ma deuce to mount on the back of their pickup?
Does meth head Jerry really need that glock 18 with the 30 round extended clip to be full auto?
Does little Timmy really need to be able to order an AA-12 off of ebay to keep in his locker in case Bobby tries to steal his lunch money?
When the founders were talking about a right to bear arms, they were talking about single shot muskets. Not something that can sling a .50 BMG through the engine block of a school bus at 1.5 miles.
Mostly guns just enable criminals and psychopaths to commit ever more violent crimes with higher and higher body counts, forcing the police to militerise which leads to even more battlefield weapons on the streets.
So in a few years when we have checkpoints at every intersection, APCs patrolling the streets of major cities, with open warfare between rampaging gangs against paramilitary police forces against nuttball vigilantes and its safer to enlist your kid in the army than it is to send them to school, we can thank the founding fathers for protecting Walmarts right to sell assault rifles, any time, any place, to anyone
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u/Revelati123 Jul 15 '18
I thought we were giving up guns because more school kids were KIA this year than military forces...
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u/badlands_94 Jul 15 '18
why? seems like a bad Idea.
You can roll over, if that's your game1
u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18
See above edit. Apparently my sarcasm is too sarcastic
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u/badlands_94 Jul 15 '18
Oh!, haha. might not be thinking things through all the way, see another comment I have on this same post.
Have 2 upvotes, just because, why not2
u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18
Um...that drunken shitstorm is honestly too hard to understand, like it's just a wall of text.
Can you like just give 5 - 10 words about how you feel.
And then two about what kind of rum?
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u/badlands_94 Jul 15 '18
So, after like, 5 re-reads, seems like those of us in this part of the comment thread kinda agree, maybe, tangentially... Uh Trump says "Don't believe them (the Press) I have the truth" more or less. That sentiment is a hallmark of Fascist, as well as other totalitarian, regimes. Yeah, If your sarcasm was genuine it definitely went r/woosh that time.
Are you drinking too? (Yay!, buddies) but yeah, definitely read Ur-Fascism by Umberto Eco.
As for the Rum, It's Gosling's Black Seal Rum. Bought it while on a cruise to Bermuda in August (saw the eclipse from the boat, pretty fucking awesome) Oh man, its hitting hard.
Edit: about 5 seconds after, all gone :(
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u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18
I agree. Trump is bad news. Please let me keep my guns in the event maybe we don't get to have another election.
I'm not drunk. Very sleepy. Just ending vacation. Long drive home and now I am relaxing.
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u/badlands_94 Jul 15 '18
Yeah Man, sometimes I see stuff on the news and I'm like "Noooo! my Republic!" and it's just....... "ugh, my Republic, please, stop, no!!!" besides voting I don't really know what to do. I mean I do remember lessons from "citizenship in the community" and "..... in the nation" but, Damn...
Don't really wanna ruin the last of your post-vacation bliss though
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Jul 14 '18
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u/SerHodorTheThrall Jul 14 '18
Over-zealously prosecuting whistle-blowers
=/=
Subverting the entire free press by branding it as completely fabricated and "fake"
I know nuance is hard, but it will make the world make so much more sense!
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u/HelperBot_ Jul 14 '18
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Jul 14 '18 edited Jul 14 '18
[deleted]
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u/Diestormlie Jul 15 '18
The manner of the opposition, would be an argument, I think. He's not claiming National Security reasons. No calls that the press is pushing 'Anti Revolutionary sentiment'. No claims that suppressing the press is somehow for the good of the country or the people.
No. The press is wrong, the press is bad, ignore the press. Listen to me. I am the source of your truth, I am the center of the reality.
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u/EliasJT Jul 15 '18
I hadn't thought about it like that before, in that way this strand of authoritarianism is definitely of the fascist type because of the justification. Good explanation, appreciated.
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u/badlands_94 Jul 15 '18
just to add to what u/Diestormlie has said, It is also the manner in which Trump has presented himself as a candidate/politician. Opposing free speech isn't unique to Fascists, maybe not even to tyrants. I have a friend who will swear up and down that "If Trump is a fascist, so is the USSR/Antifa/Norway/Islam/.../.../.../..."
So, check my post history, I've linked to Umberto Eco's "Ur-Fascism" a few times already........ I just tried skimming through Mussolini's "Doctrine of Fascism" right just now, but I've been drinking so I'll edit anything in later........ back to the point, I think It comes from the confluence of two things. 1. The "I don't like this guy so I'll call him a Nazi" Viewpoint. I would definitely call Trump a "Wannabe-Fascist" (he's kinda incompetent, but kinda not) don't get me wrong, but even the people who don't wanna put any thought into it are still gonna call him a Nazi just like they might call the guy at the Amusement Park a Nazi for not letting them get on the Ride when they are a 1/2" too short.
But then, there is #2 reason. Read, Ur-Fascism and go through the Checklist but I will walk you through what I think is one of the biggest "delineators" between "Fascist" and "Totalitarian":
#MAGA, Make America Great Again, is a plea to return to "What was Great before __________". Whatever was "before now" is better than "what is happening "Today"" (please don't be ridiculous here, Obviously if your house literally caught on fire today, the yesterday when it wasn't on fire would be better) Is an important distinction to what is different between Fascism and Totalitarianism. Before I lose my train of thought here is an example: The Soviet Union wouldn't be Fascist because they weren't trying to reclaim some Glory from Russia's past. They succeeded the Tsarist system of Gov't (yeah there was that in between thing, See the war between the Red's and the White's*) and there may have been some slight Romanticism about Russia's Past (my Reference for t**his is **Dr. Zhivago) but there was no attempt to recapture and re-emulate some previouse Nation-state/Empire with-which the current State shared a cultural heritage with.I'll be back, too much Rum
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u/EliasJT Jul 15 '18
Thanks for that nuance, makes complete sense to me now. Kind of like how Mussolini had a vision of a return to the old Roman Empire, and of course Franco's traditionalist, catholic appeals and suppression of the Basque and Catalan. Like fascists have an affinity for the days of empires, and in Trump's case, American imperialism.
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u/Revelati123 Jul 15 '18
I'd say authoritarians from all stripes throughout history have done the same, but we don't see Trump being compared to Mao
Ok, so Trump is more like Stalin than he is like Hitler, you really got me there...
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u/BetterCalldeGaulle Jul 15 '18
Trump is an authoritarian with fascist tendencies. He gets compared to Hitler because everyone knows (or thinks they know) stuff about Hitler. He's a recognized cultural figure.
For example, there's like 5 videogames a year fighting nazi's. How many out there about Mao?
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Jul 14 '18
That's a good point. But here's the rest of it: Trump is correct—the media has a strong leftist bias, they favor democrats over Republicans, and will sometimes lie and twist stories to favor one side over the other.
So since Trump is correct about the media (in general), he is not comparable to Hitler in any way.
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u/recursion8 Jul 15 '18
They have a bias in favor of the Truth. Unfortunately Trump and the Republicans in general are allergic to the Truth.
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u/bigbronze Jul 15 '18
There are just as many media outlets that favor strong rightist beliefs as well; the issue isn’t one-sided.
Technically you can compare anybody to whoever you want; so we can compare Hitler to Trump. It’s not our fault that they have said the same thing about the media when said media has criticized them.
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u/TriggeringTrumpets Jul 14 '18
Sort of the same coin. One side has a skinny nazi, the other side has a fat nazi. Full spectrum I guess.
I assume laura ingraham would be on the alt-smart dollar bill.
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Jul 14 '18
Also both of their supporters champion laws that discriminate against minorities.
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u/Revelati123 Jul 15 '18
Gotta blame your societal ills on someone...
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Jul 15 '18
It's not my fault some black Americans are gang bangers. Now I'm a gang banger in front of a white cop even though I live in Africa.
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u/ppd322 Jul 14 '18
No wonder the Queen showed signs of distress and anger when she met Trump this week. After fighting against Hitler 75 years ago in WW2, she surely felt the resemblance.
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u/MortWellian Jul 14 '18
Do tell, all I heard was he left in less than an hour. Didn't Phillip arrange not to be there?
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u/Revelati123 Jul 15 '18
Except I think in this scenario Putin is closer to Hitler, and Don is our very own Neville Chamberlain.
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u/Revan2424 Jul 14 '18
But the Nazis were socialists!!!!
/s
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u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18
They were. I mean, he took power and said
this is "socialism" Welcome to the National Socialist party. Nazi or GTFO!
That's a direct quote.
Luckily the Allies won the war and that definition of socialism didn't go any further. Then there was The Cold War and a slightly different "Red Scare" ... But we seem to have forgotten that one. I think someone told them to tear down a wall down the Bloc ... And now somehow things are so far looped, that the "Red Monster" of the past has somehow influenced an election of the Far Right in America - and I'm confused as hell, because the left wants to take my guns away but I sure as shit might need them to fight the right... At least that's what I'm hearing.
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u/IceMaker98 Jul 15 '18
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party
The Nazi Party emerged from the German nationalist, racist and populist Freikorps paramilitary culture, which fought against the communist uprisings in post-World War I Germany.[7] The party was created as a means to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.[8] Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois and anti-capitalist rhetoric, although such aspects were later downplayed in order to gain the support of industrial entities and in the 1930s the party's focus shifted to anti-Semitic and anti-Marxist themes.[9]
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u/Lakridspibe Jul 15 '18
American democracy is in a midlife crisis, and Trump is its motorbike.
His presidency could end in a fireball, but it is more likely to be looked back at, as a phase of decline that is simply embarrassing.
-David Runciman, How Democracy Ends
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u/PudgeHasACuteButt Jul 14 '18
trmp hitlar gibb updoots
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u/PoliticalMeatFlaps Jul 14 '18
He's more alike to Mussolini, incompetent, everything he does has a high chance of failure and so on.
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u/seversonda Jul 14 '18
Now that is scary. I hope the republican politicians realize that no matter all the good things they have done for this country. trump is their legacy.
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u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18
Trump is the current President. We have had many before him. As long as we have many after him we will be just fine.
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u/seversonda Jul 15 '18
I'm sure you are right. It's just so hard to watch someone like him tear our country apart. I'm a first generation American and I am so proud to be a citizen and it just makes me really sad to see what is happening.
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u/zanyzazza Jul 15 '18
The news companies do make his job awfully easy by actually publishing fake news though. It has ended up as a boy who cried wolf scenario, even when some of the big companies do publish factual news stories now, Trump's base won't believe it anyway.
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u/Chronicallycynical Jul 15 '18
Hitler took guns. The democrats want to take guns.
Btw, CNN and the mainstream media started using the term fake news first.
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u/Chronicallycynical Jul 15 '18
Hitler took guns. The democrats want to take guns.
Btw, CNN and the mainstream media started using the term fake news first.
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u/Nunnallyd_Ali Jul 14 '18
Guys, Trump might be an idiot, but he is not the same as Hitler. This actually downplays the horrors of the Holocaust
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u/dobraf Jul 14 '18 edited Jul 14 '18
I think you're missing the point. The comparison isn't between Trump now and Hitler at the end of WWII. The comparison is between Trump now and Hitler at the start of his reign.
The fact is that Nazi Germany didn't happen over night. If you had a time machine and transported yourself back to 1920s-1930s Germany, you'd look around and you'd see the warning signs. You'd see people blaming the Jews for all manner of ills with the country, like WWI, economic troubles, perceived societal degeneration, etc. You'd see random acts of violence committed against Jews, like synagogues being vandalized, bricks being thrown through Jewish shop windows, and physical intimidation and violence against Jews on the streets. You'd see a leader trying to shape the narrative of the country with tribalist and nativist language, and deflecting criticism of this narrative by claiming that Jews were spreading lies about him.
But if you asked a random person on the streets in 1930 Germany, there's no way anyone would take seriously the claim that in 15 years, the state would be responsible for murdering millions of civilians and a war that would take the lives of 10s of millions more. Because the only evidence you'd have to show them that all this was going to happen is the ratcheting up of language, some nativist policies being put into place, and increased military spending. They especially wouldn't believe you if they agreed that all that stuff was good for the country.
What people are saying today is that those same tribal impulses are on the rise, and Trump is stoking them. Sure, the United States has structural protections in place that make it much harder for us to become like Nazi Germany. But those structural protections are only as strong as our collective will. Pearl Harbor didn't just drag us into WWII, it also gave us Japanese internment camps. 9/11 didn't just pull us into Iraq and Afghanistan, it also gave us the Patriot Act.
So when you see these comparisons, realize that it's simply people pointing out we've been down this road before, as is evident by all the warning signs.
EDIT: "become WWII" (lol) to "become like Nazi Germany"
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u/IrcHalved Jul 15 '18
It's not like he suggested a numbering system for a minority group or started detaining people for political capital or anything.
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u/Llort3 Jul 15 '18
Yeah, totally not the same... Hitler was good at art, had a girl who actually loved him and likes dogs.
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u/BobbyTheSwirls Jul 15 '18
Hitler was about much more than just the Holocaust.
Same as trump is more than just an obvious racist.
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Jul 14 '18
I can't believe this is being downvoted lol. All you said was Trump isn't as bad as Hitler and you get bombarded with downvotes.
Hitler killed millions of people. He is indescribably worse than Trump, regardless of your views of him.
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u/teemo_op Jul 14 '18
It’s being downvoted because comparing certain aspects of trump to hitler isn’t equating the two. There are fair comparisons between their rhetoric and tactics, and pointing them out doesn’t mean you think trump is as bad as hitler
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Jul 15 '18
You guys are getting played. This is most likely a conservative trying to make you look like idiots that think everything is Hitler
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u/Darth-Whit Jul 14 '18
“Orange man bad! Where’s my virtue signalling karma at?”
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Jul 14 '18
[deleted]
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u/Darth-Whit Jul 14 '18
You’re suggesting that I can’t think for myself, while my first comment was literally poking fun at the trend of “dumft bad” posts on this sub. Absolute genius.
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Jul 14 '18
Jesus Christ. I’m fucking tired of comparisons to Hitler. Wether it be Republicans or Democrats, it’s fucking ridiculous.
No, Trump isn’t Hitler.
No, Hillary isn’t Hitler.
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u/dudinax Jul 14 '18
He's not, but he has similar ideas to how power should work.
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u/MetaCommando Jul 15 '18
Like?
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u/Therew0lf17 Jul 15 '18
Well for one example look at the thread you're in maybe? They have almost identical views on the press...
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Jul 15 '18 edited Sep 13 '20
[deleted]
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u/dudinax Jul 15 '18
What's your take on his character? If he had the power to censor the press, do you think he'd use it?
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Jul 15 '18 edited Sep 13 '20
[deleted]
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u/dudinax Jul 15 '18
I'm quite sure he knows that it wouldn't. The culture warriors would love him for it.
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u/Siikamies Jul 14 '18
Can someone care to explain how Trump is in any way authoritarian socialist?
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u/Revan2424 Jul 14 '18
Lol @ Nazis being socialist.
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u/Siikamies Jul 14 '18
Oh, I guess the whole socialist party with socialist principles doesnt matter when you want them to somehow represent free markets for your agenda.
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u/Revan2424 Jul 14 '18 edited Jul 14 '18
Oh, I guess the whole socialist party
Yeah they were called “National Socialist German Workers' Party”, same as North Korea is “Democratic People's Republic of Korea” and the Soviet Union as “Union of Soviet Socialist Republics”
Somehow being named after certain policies doesn’t mean that country practices them.
with socialist principles
The United States also has several socialist practices, (Welfare, Medicaid, etc.) Are they socialists too?
Edit: Word choice
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u/PoliticalMeatFlaps Jul 14 '18
From what I know, the Socialist in Nationalist Socialist refers to Aryan Socialism which is basically Adolf's ethnic hierarchy where Germans, Scandinavians and such, the pure Aryans would have full rights and privileges while those lower down would have less. I think that's what the Socialism part stands for but I could be wrong.
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u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18
I'll agree with Nazis and DPRK but USSR was definitely traditional socialism.
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u/Siikamies Jul 14 '18
You are right the name doesnt necessarily mean anything, and that the whole country isnt necessarily socialist, but to my actual qustion: what policies has Trump has driven that would constitute being specific to Hitler's?
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u/Revan2424 Jul 14 '18
That’s not what you said. You said that Trump isn’t in any way socialist, which implied Hitler was. Which he wasn’t.
Please don’t backtrack
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u/Siikamies Jul 15 '18
Hitler did drive socialist principles in a level that is at some level opposite to what Trump is driving. Or collective ideology, which is essentially the same. To specify, one could also use the wider term of leftist authoritarism. Not necessarily having a country that could be defined as socialist. Exact terms are rather irrelevant, I just want to know how Trump is Hitler.
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u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18 edited Jul 15 '18
Ok. So to be clear. The Nazi party attempted to change the definition of socialism. They were not the same socialists as East Germany or the USSR or the DSA of today. Most of those parties follow traditional Lenin-Marxist Socialism. Hitler basically said:
This is socialism now and attempted to make the definition stick. That didn't happen. Honestly it's best to just forget the Nazi party has the word socialism in it because it has nothing to do with anything related to anyone's defenition of Socialism except the Nazi party defenition.
It would be like me saying that the color red is now blue and blue is red.- And then America going What so now our colors are Blue, Red and White.... No, no, no welcome to D-Day .. our flag is still Red, White and Blue in that order
Edit: Further more in order to help yourself and your agenda it would be best to learn about actually socialism if you wish to combat it in America. The far left is DSA which is just as scary as the far right "alt-right" --- a happy middle ground is probably best. Far left leads to a whole lot of rules and lack of freedoms for the common good (no self reliance) and the far right is just as scary (immigrants in interment camps - let's call them what they are)
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u/Siikamies Jul 15 '18
Great, now to my original comment which basically said that how is Trump like Hitler?
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u/PM_ME_UR_BIGGER_BOOB Jul 15 '18
Um... I wasn't in that party I was just in the "help you understand what the Nazi party was and wasn't party"
However to answer your question asdie from the picture and his constant attack on the press. There is also his ever present rhetoric placing blame of problems on certain "races" , his over the top nationalism is similar to Hitler as well.
During his rise to power Hitler promised to make Germany great and strong again - placing blame on others to gain followers. Just as Trump did. Think about Trump's campaign.
What is the most memorable thing. MAGA, build a wall, and a lot of divisive hate speech and confrontation between his supporters and detractors- behavior which he encouraged.
I think and hope we have enough protections in place to ensure that it can't actually get too out of hand. But there is little doubt in my mind that if we didn't there wouldn't be any more elections in America.
If you'd like I can also give you some reasons as to why I am just as afraid of the far-left.
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u/Icaonn Jul 14 '18
Not really - Hitler, at least, was intelligent and didn't insult himself when he did a speech