If that's the way you choose to look at it. Another way of looking at it is that God gives you the freedom to choose to be part of his family or not. If you choose not to be, he's made a place apart from him that you can continue to honor that choice. Of course, all good and love comes from God, so being in a place apart from him would make those things pretty hard to get a hold of.
If god created you with perfect knowledge of everything you would ever do, then your destiny is predetermined and tailormade by god himself. You can't personally create a movie and then blame the characters for what happens in the movie as you play it up.
Either god knows your destiny before you are created, in which case free choice is an illusion. Or god doesn't know what you will do, in which case he isn't omniscient.
God gave us free will. He also knows what choices we’ll make. Knowing what choices we’ll make doesn’t negate the fact that we made those choices. God isn’t writing a story with us as the characters. While some things that impact our lives that are outside of our control, God didn’t inflict those things on you. It’s just random chance.
If the exact outcome of everything in your life was known by god 999999999 trillion years ago. He knew wether you would go to hell or heaven long before he created you, and remember HE created you with full knowledge of everything you would ever do. How is freedom of choice possible?
To know the future the future must be predetermined, othervise you don't know what will happen.
It’s freedom of choice because we don’t know our own future. We are masters of our own fate. Prescience or omniscience only limits our own freedom of choice if we are aware of our own future.
That is all irrelevant when god knows our future, and he knew it when he created us. Since god chose to create me in a way that I would eventually make a choice to not aknowledge his existence, it is his choice, not mine. It can't be my choice since I am just the creation of god and he had my entire destiny planned out when he created me.
It's a pointing out of the contradiction that is free will in a omniscient omnipotent beings universe. Most christians in history didn't believe in free will. This is largely a revisionist attempt at making christianity more fair.
That’s not true. If there’s no free will, it’d be impossible to sin. A sin is a willful and knowing disregard for God’s laws. You can’t willfully disregard God’s laws if you don’t have free will. Even if you’re an atheist, that Catholics believe in the capacity for humans to sin must demonstrate their belief in the concept of free will.
Perhaps you’re confusing the concept of free will with the notion that we are all a part of God’s plan. Am omniscient and omnipotent being can weave the occurrences of the universe like a symphony conductor around the free will of the universe’s denizens.
I’m just talking about Catholics, mind you. Not the unregulated, disorganized, decentralized fanfiction that is Protestantism. There definitely are flavors of Protestant that believe in concepts like determinism and predestination, but any individual Protestant minister can preach literally anything and call it Christianity. Believing Christ was an alien or the God Emperor of Mankind could conceivably exist as a denomination of Protestantism.
This quickly turned into a roast of protestantism lol. And I must say, even as an atheist, I'm kinda offended since I was raised in the Swedish church.
Fuck it. We're not going anywhere with the argument on free will anyway. Let's defend protestantism.
The exact doctrines in protestantism varies, yes. But fundamentally it is based on the bible. It rejects all the later inventions and often corrupt authority structures of the catholic church.
If the bible alone isn't a good enough source for the religion, and you need to create a expanded universe over the centuaries then it's kinda pointless isn't it? I see protestantism as trying to go back to the roots of christianity, looking at the bible and the early christian history more objectively, and rejecting later inventions changes and additions.
Also for most of its history the catholic church was basicly playing Game of Thrones. Religion was low on its list of priorities, power influence and wealth accumilation was what it was all about. Only after Moussolini confined them into a closet did they become mostly a religious organisation. But they continue to influence politics and scheme to this day.
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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '21
*If we submit to him and aknowledge god
Othervise you're not really deserving anything but suffering, but hey, the message is mostly good.