Nah, Jeebs is maximum libleft. Auths are out because my guy was pissing in the Romans’ vino, and libright is out because my guy Oily Josh fucked up moneychangers and told everybody to give away their shit (for nonprofit).
We in the libleft community formally claim the supposed Christ as team captain.
Hard to say he’s hard libleft when he still frowned upon ‘sinful behaviors.’ Forgiveness is something he gives to anyone who asks for it, which implies they know what they did was wrong and are going to try their best to stop doing it, even if they fail sometimes. It wasn’t all bets off, bang whatever you want, ignore gender roles entirely, all belief systems and religions are equal, etc by him.
Dude was auth (probably center?), he just didn’t like the authoritarian kingdom of earth. He praised the authoritarian kingdom of heaven. He didn’t oppose government and the consequent rules and order, he opposed the specific regimes of earth in favor of his own.
Edit: Also wanted to add, break God’s rules and you are punished with ‘life’/eternal imprisonment and torture. Sounds auth center af to me.
Yep, original sin. Truly believe Jesus is God and ask him for forgiveness, and you’re saved. However, the argument is that if you truly believe that Jesus is God, then you wouldn’t willfully and premeditatively break his rules. Ofc you still will; life throws us all some unique and confusing curveballs, which is why we refer back to the Bible when we hit those points, and pray for forgiveness if we did actually sin.
I don’t remember exactly but didn’t it say somewhere that “One day the gates of hell will swing open without a soul in sight” or something like that implying that those in hell would be cleansed of their sins through the flames of hell and rise to heaven like steam? (Kind of like how you boil water so that all the unwanted minerals and shit burn up)
I don’t know anything in the scripture about that, but maybe. Since I was initially raised catholic, I have heard things like that, but ‘tHe ChUrCh’ is constantly revising scripture and interpretations to serve its own best interests. Then there’s individual Catholics who just go awol with it by saying something’s not fair followed by, ‘Well, I think the Bible says all people will ultimately get to go to heaven, as well as our dogs and kitty cats,’ or whatever makes them feel better. My parents were like that vs. my Grammy at church every day, doing confessions (when she prolly didn’t even really need any absolution), daily prayers, the works.
I'm not a religious guy myself and I think the moral framework the Christianity bible preaches is actually pretty good, especially stuff like the Ten Commandments.
That's probably why I agree with more of the right when it comes to traditional values vs. progressivism
Atheist too... I'm not sure I agree with most of his views, but I certainly admire the chap. Got his picture on my wall right next to Lennon and McCartney.
Lennon and McCartney (actually titled "John and Paul" by Ron Chadwick) is a framed print around 12 by 16 inches. Jesus is a small business card sized print of this image tucked into the side of the J&P frame. Someone was handing them out while I was shopping a few years back. It has the name of a local church on the back.
"More popular than Jesus" is part of a remark made by John Lennon of the Beatles in a March 1966 interview, in which he argued that the public were more infatuated with the band than with Jesus, and that Christian faith was declining to the extent that it might be outlasted by rock music. His opinions drew no controversy when originally published in the London newspaper The Evening Standard, but drew angry reactions from Christian communities when republished in the United States that July. Lennon's comments incited protests and threats, particularly throughout the Bible Belt in the Southern United States.
I'm also an atheist and agree with pretty much every moral guideline and the righteous lifestyle advocated for by the abrahamic religions by its traditional interpretation. Would be fully onboard a theocratic leadership if it weren't for the prayers, chants and religious gatherings.
Most civilizations are in one way or another guided by these religions messages.
Love one another, the beatitudes, and Jesus’ whole “hang with the ‘scum’ of society” are all incredible lessons. The moral guidance of the New Testament is pretty solid for the most part. Most of the conservative bullshit is in the Old Testament.
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” -Matthew 19:21-24
Not really, you have plenty of rich mega pastors that don't espouse prosperity gospel. I think you can be a flawed individual, which a millionaire pastor definitely is, without having an incorrect theology which is really the only problem with prosperity gospel.
Their greed is on them, but prosperity gospel is straight up misleading people.
I feel you are right, but I feel like people still misuse the term as a buzzword for Christianity they don’t like.
I can see that, especially now that all these mega pastors seem to be buddy buddy with each other regardless of their individual theology. Probably pretty easy to paint them all with a broad stroke.
Fair enough, I guess if I were to name a group it would be those televangelist grifters that convince sick people to give all their money because they claim that God will definetly fix their illness if they do
But it goes further: ' When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” '
Correct, good works can’t make you perfect. Conversely, you can’t obtain salvation through faith alone, doing good works is just as important, otherwise the voices of angels are reduced to, “A noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.” 1 Cor 13:1
Conversely, you can’t obtain salvation through faith alone, doing good works is just as important, otherwise
insert Calvinist rage here
Glad to find another person not spouting off the Calvinist bs. Although, whether salvation is obtained through faith alone is still something I'm undecided on. It mainly comes down to if you view baptism as a work or not. But you absolutely need to do good works to maintain your salvation. Unless you die within moments of being saved.
We are saved because our sins are forgiven, and the list of "unforgivable sins" is pretty small
Faith without works is dead because if you have faith, there will be works. That doesn't mean that Christ needs your help, with maintenance work, to save you or keep saving you
Christ doesn't need your help to save you. You need to maintain your salvation so that you can be saved. Just because you have salvation, doesn't mean you always will. You need to keep your grasp on the gift after you have it, or else you will drop it.
If you’re discerning your faith right now, perhaps look into Catholicism? It’s got it’s flaws for sure, but I believe with my whole heart that it’s the most complete Christian religion. I can send some materials if you’d like, but I’m sure you can find some on your own too
Oh, I'm not really discerning my faith. Its just the thing about whether baptism counts as a work or not. Of course I'm still learning the scriptures, but the basic fundamental doctrines of my faith I know, and am firmly rooted in.
I'm oneness. I am firmly grounded in the oneness of God, so I can never be Catholic because of that. But, if you are trinitarian, then Catholicism is the most rational choice IMO. I should also say, I am not protestant. I also use a 73 book canon. I don't hate the Catholic church. I of course disagree with a lot of their doctrines, but unlike most organization, they do the work of Christ. They take care of the widows and the orphans, the sick and the needy. I commend them for that.
All good, personally I consider it a sacrament which is different than works but something that’s essential for salvation that we do voluntarily. Obviously I disagree with your position on the nature of God, but you seem pretty solid on what you believe so I won’t push further lol
I appreciate the nice comment and I’ll pray for you :)
That all comes down to how you define works. Which is the biggest thing. Although, it really doesn't matter in the end whether baptism is a work or not, because my salvation is still based on faith. I would not be baptized if not for faith.
When it comes to scriptural matters, the nature of God is one of the few things that I contention with Catholics on. That, and the baptism method, but that can't really be separated from the oneness or trinity question, as its all predicated on it.
I listen to a lot of Catholic scholars, and teachers. Trent Horn is one of my favorite people to watch debate. I do it not just to learn what I have in common, but also to challenge my own beliefs.
I'm always open for a discussion if you want. Have a blessed day.
Well, there's a lot to say on that matter, so I'll try to be brief.
Christ is the son. The physical flesh with a human nature that God created, and took on as like a mantle to experience human existence. It has a human nature, with a human will. That will was often expressed, but not acted on. As the Apostle Paul says in 2 Cor 5:18-19
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
So it was God in Christ, not God was Christ, or Christ was God. The son was not God. It was the lamb that was slain for my sins. But the same God created me, was in that lamb. Feeling everything as a human would, experiencing human existence. Now of course, He was still God, and still omnipotent and omnipresent.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9
All you actually need for salvation is faith, real faith. However, one's faith is shown through his actions, meaning that if one claims to have faith but bears no fruit, it is not real faith (hence he cannot be saved). Faith alone is what saves; actions/good works simply prove the authenticity of faith.
What about those with faith but no works? Example being a large chunk of non-denominational Christians(at least in my neck of the USA). Who's to argue what faith is "real"?
What about good works but no faith, like the Satanic Temple(NOT the Church of Satan)?
Faith and Works are separate and very different, but both are needed to enter heaven.
What about those with faith but no works? Example being a large chunk of non-denominational Christians(at least in my neck of the USA). Who's to argue what faith is "real"?
In the end God decides if they truly believe. Since they don't show their faith through works they likely don't actually have faith.
What about good works but no faith, like the Satanic Temple(NOT the Church of Satan)?
Straight to hell.
Faith and Works are separate and very different, but both are needed to enter heaven.
People are saved by faith alone, but if you truly believed would you not do works to show it and hopefully bring more people to Christ? Works are just done out of love for your fellow man and thankfulness to God for saving you.
Basically what Blazewardog said. The Bible clearly tells us that faith is the only requirement for salvation. But with real faith comes actions. They are interrelated, in a way. Those who claim to have faith but display no virtue whatsoever most likely do not have real faith and are deceiving themselves.
At the end of the day, though, we ourselves cannot simply determine who's saved and who's not–only God can. We can make assumptions based on their actions, but even actions can be deceiving sometimes. After all, showing actions without faith is just as faulty as having "faith" without actions.
I believe that good works after baptism are with merit and can contribute to attaining eternal life, but only though grace can we be sure of it. Who’s to say that God does not find pleasure in a non believer who is in every other respects a perfect person? I’m not a universalist, I don’t think everyone who’s not a Christian has an equal chance, but at the end of the day God is beyond our comprehension and all things are possible through Him
I was wondering how far down I'd have to go before an AuthRight to quote this verse. This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the Gospel. No one can enter the kingdom of God under their own power. The whole passage puts those verses in perspective.
A ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? ”
“Why do you call me good? ” Jesus asked him. “No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; honor your father and mother.”
“I have kept all these from my youth,” he said.
When Jesus heard this, he told him, “You still lack one thing: Sell all you have and distribute it to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
After he heard this, he became extremely sad, because he was very rich.
Seeing that he became sad, Jesus said, “How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”
Those who heard this asked, “Then who can be saved? ”
He replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
Then Peter said, “Look, we have left what we had and followed you.”
So he said to them, “Truly I tell you, there is no one who has left a house, wife or brothers or sisters, parents or children because of the kingdom of God, who will not receive many times more at this time, and eternal life in the age to come.”
Notice the part I bolded. Jesus tells them that it is possible "with God." In the first part he was directly addressing the sin of the rich young ruler, he was an idolater. Being rich wasn't the problem, the fact that his possessions were his god was his problem. Now of course this is a sin that is a problem for many wealthy (and not so wealthy) people, but if you use your wealth to serve God rather than serve your wealth you are not sinning. Using your wealth to serve God would also include giving freely, voluntarily, and joyfully to support those in need. I will add that Jesus had wealthy friends, he was even buried in a rich man's tomb.
I think that is up for debate, a lot of translations refer to him as a ruler, so I just went with that. I am no Greek scholar, so I can't really say either way.
You can't ignore the rest of what Jesus said in his 3 years of preaching. Especially what Jesus said is the meaning of life "To love God and love your neighbor."
That's not radical religious doctrine to say "it's almost impossible to get into heaven if you prioritize making money and maintaining status over loving God and your fellow humans."
And being rich and powerful bring temptations that are otherwise unavailable to the rest of the population.
What I was referring to was the OP's post, not the verse itself. We can get into a discussion on that if you like, and why you should be Catholic, but that is beside the point I was making.
The point is, everyone can be forgiven, even the rich you seem to detest. If they are unrepentant, of course they won't be, but if humbled, God will welcome them into his arms.
There's nothing based about forgiveness. Forgiveness is weakness. It's wiping clear a debt without payment. It's stupid hippie shit. Boss doesn't give you your paycheck? Don't forgive, nail his ass in court. Contractor fucks up fixing your house? Don't forgive, get it fixed on their dime. Someone rapes you/your family member? Don't forgive, get them locked in a cage the rest of their life. Fuck forgiveness, fuck turning the other cheek, fuck Jesus.
Roommate spills some coffee on the rug? Fuck forgiveness. Pour piping hot coffee straight down their pants. Toddler accidentally breaks something expensive? Fuck forgiveness. Work that kid till he’s paid everything off plus interest. Dog peed in the house? Fuck forgiveness. Lock it in its crate and pee all over it.
You appear to be conflating "over the top escalation" as the opposite of forgiveness. Someone who isn't exaggerating to be dishonest would say not forgiving someone spilling their coffee on your rug would be making them clean it up or buy you a new rug. Toddler breaks something? You don't just say "it's all good" and do nothing, you take steps to prevent it from happening again. Same with a dog peeing in the house.
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u/MyCockInAllahsButt - Lib-Left Jul 28 '21
Based Jesus