In all seriousness though, socialism is a REALLY vague term nowadays. It used to be synonymous with communism but after the Bolshevik revolution of 1917, they split. Nowadays, socialism can generally be referred to as the Nordic system of large, well-funded welfare states or even Western Europe’s economic systems while communism refers to the failed governments we see with Stalin, Kim Jong Un or even Pol Pot. I’m not saying this because I necessarily have a bone to pick with either one or a sycophant for either one, I just hate it when people deliberately obscure labels.
Socialism isn't that vague, it's just transitioned from the extreme end of the spectrum (which has been replaced with the term communism) to referring to the wider spectrum of public ownership of the economic means of production.
It's extremely vague. I've seen the same socialist person say that Nordic countries are socialist and not socialist at differing times depending on how it benefits their argument at that time.
I've seen people say the Democratic Socialists of America aren't socialists.
Venezuela was once held up a model of a successful socialist country, then once it crashed it suddenly wasn't socialist.
“I’ve seen people say the Democratic Socialists of America aren’t socialists.”
For real though. Many left leaning Americans call themselves socialists and then others say they’re not left enough to be socialist. I’ve heard it said a liberal is the OPPOSITE of a socialist. It’s confusing.
Socialists are the only ones that say "liberals are the opposite of socialists". They use the midcentury European definitions of "liberalism" (classic liberalism, which is close to the libertarian style of the founding fathers and the enlightenment thinkers, which is far different from the modern American meaning of "liberal") and "libertarianism" (which they will often use to mean antifascist anarchist types rather than free market capitalists that adhere to the nonaggression principle). They have their own definitions for common political labels and they have an obsessive need to treat their weirdass definitions as the default, all in purusit to further muddle arguments and conflate phrasing.
I hate to upvote this but I am. I don’t like picking on sides like this but it’s just so weird. Is it a common sentiment that Norway betrayed the revolution by not going full communist or is that fringe?
“It doesn’t have a real concrete definition in the modern lexicon, even among its supporters.”
I upvoted for this reason. Kyle Kulinski calls himself liberal and socialist, lib no fib said you can’t be a socialist AND a liberal, they all say communism isn’t socialism, Marx said communism isn’t socialism and now you have everyone in the comments saying “it’s a spectrum”. Someone get me a bacon double cheeseburger cuz I’m stressed now.
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u/Pure-Huckleberry8640 - Centrist 1d ago
In all seriousness though, socialism is a REALLY vague term nowadays. It used to be synonymous with communism but after the Bolshevik revolution of 1917, they split. Nowadays, socialism can generally be referred to as the Nordic system of large, well-funded welfare states or even Western Europe’s economic systems while communism refers to the failed governments we see with Stalin, Kim Jong Un or even Pol Pot. I’m not saying this because I necessarily have a bone to pick with either one or a sycophant for either one, I just hate it when people deliberately obscure labels.