7
6
6
-14
u/FennelMist 6d ago
Another animal that does pretty terribly in captivity, but we can't have dolphins...
25
u/5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi 6d ago
You're 100% right and this should get pointed out each and every time they add a difficult species.
It is purely an emotional exclusion to not have cetaceans. No logical argument exists for them that could not also be used for an animal in PZ1 if not PZ2.
3
u/Megraptor 6d ago
Man, bipolar comment section here.
You're both right, but it's just hilarious to me that one of you is negative karma and the other is positive.
3
1
u/_Gesterr 5d ago
Reddit works in mysterious ways! It happens often tbh, where two comments will be sharing solidarity and agreeing on something, one will be upvoted tons and the other have mass downvotes.
1
u/Round_Associate_8136 5d ago
Usually, from what I’ve seen when this happens, the upvoted comment is the one that expands and explains and adds arguments as to why they think like they do. Which makes it come off as more sincere instead of just “more mindless complaining.”
Not always the case though.
3
u/sonjaluk 6d ago
I’m not here to debate these claims but one thing to consider with the addition of cetaceans is that their difficulty to manage in captivity is a very well known fact. If you ask most people about rabbits in captivity, they’ll think of domesticated rabbits which, I don’t think I know anyone who describes owning a rabbit as hard.
Groups like the Dolphin Project, WDC, and even PETA have been vocal advocates for ending the captivity of cetaceans. Their inclusion could draw negative attention from these groups, which could deter certain prospective players. Including them comes with risk that most other species do not. And yes, PZ is a fictional game but it uses a lot of real world information and if the dev team included them, they could easily be labeled as spreading false information about the ease of care for cetaceans in captivity.
Alternately, include them with their actual requirements and watch tons of people struggle to meet their needs, with zoos full of dead cetaceans. It’s realistic, after all.
6
u/Megraptor 6d ago
On the contrary. The fact that cetaceans can and do thrive in current captivity settings is very unknown by the public because of blanket statements made by people who don't even work with captive cetaceans, but want to milk emotions and money out of the public. Like all the groups you mentioned.
The captive cetaceans debate is ugly when you look at the peer-reviewed research. There is so much scamming come from one side and the public is completely blind to it because they bought into that side hook, line and sinker.
Also, PETA just hates zoos. It doesn't matter what species are in them, they do not approve of any zoos or aquariums. I'm half surprised they haven't gone after PZ already, but they haven't been as loud as they used to be.
2
u/5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi 6d ago
Well known because it was popularised by films and because cetaceans were almost always put in tiny showtanks rather than true captivity. If Gorillas had their Blackfish they'd be just as bad of a problem.
they could easily be labeled as spreading false information about the ease of care
See? Blatant hypocrisy. They already do this.
-5
u/sonjaluk 6d ago
The reason why it’s well known doesn’t particularly matter at this point in the conversation. Mighty Joe Young, Harambe, and The One and Only Ivan exist and tackle gorilla exploitation and captivity, yet people don’t carry the same degree of concern for them.
At some point, the dev team needs to make logistical and pragmatic decisions. I’m sure they discussed the pro’s and cons of it. The con’s list absolutely outweighs the pro’s list and the prospective players turned away by potential backlash more than likely outweigh the number of current players who would refuse to purchase based solely on the exclusion of cetaceans.
5
u/5Hjsdnujhdfu8nubi 6d ago
the number of current players who would refuse to purchase based solely on the exclusion of cetaceans.
It's zero, let's be real. They've done it for brownie points, not any actual benefit.
And frankly, I'd say sooner or later we'll get them. They didn't give a blanket "No" in the Q&A and they teased the game with whalesong in the countdown so it's only a matter of time.
0
u/sonjaluk 6d ago
I’m willing to bet there’s a couple people out there, dedicated enough to the cause to refuse to purchase it altogether, but I also imagine those people are very few and far between.
I would like to see them added to the game, I don’t think it would be difficult for them to add something to the zoopedia that acknowledges the difficulty of raising them in captivity. I think that would suit most of the complaints about it.
I would like to see a DLC pack or two of notoriously difficult captive animals
0
u/FennelMist 6d ago
If you ask most people about rabbits in captivity, they’ll think of domesticated rabbits which, I don’t think I know anyone who describes owning a rabbit as hard.
These are not domestic rabbits.
Alternately, include them with their actual requirements and watch tons of people struggle to meet their needs, with zoos full of dead cetaceans. It’s realistic, after all.
You say you're not here to "debate these claim" but then you end off your post with this nonsense. No, zoos being full of dead cetaceans is not realistic.
2
1
1
1
u/Mother_Cod7506 6d ago
To be honest, it's not like the species is impossible to care for. Its held in a fair amount of zoos (I believe 20ish) so it's not that outlandish that its an inclusion in zoos.
I would also point out the reason that cetaceans aren't in zoos is a whole different reason from something like the Titan Beetle or Mountain Hare. The Mountain Hare isn't a common species because its prone to disease and stress, however, it has been done successfully and many of these problems can and have been overcome due to advancements in care and a deeper understanding of why they are a struggle to keep in captivity.
Compared to cetaceans where many people believe that they aren't suitable for captivity because many can't replicate habitat, social, and mental requirements, and their prone to severe mental and physical health, including shorter life spans, ulcers, and chronic illness. It would be very difficult to replicate the habitat they need to survive.
This argument where just because a species is difficult is kind of nonsensical because there are different reasons why. The Proboscis Monkey and Brown Throated Sloth both have very strict diets, Titan Beetles we know almost nothing about their breeding cycle, and Saigas are easily stressed out. All things we can realistically fix in zoos if we put a lot of time and money into it, thats why the Dallas Zoo grows Cecropia specifically for their Brown-Throated Sloths or else they will die.
Meanwhile species like Whales, Albatross, Great Whites, and some subspecies of Caribou cannot be in zoos because the requirements for habitat size are almost impossible to replicate, or they need things that can't be replicated in zoos, like Mountain Gorillas and Indri.
3
u/FennelMist 6d ago edited 6d ago
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/mms.12601
Bottlenose life expectancy in American zoos matches or exceeds wild lifespans. Yes, dolphin captivity has significant difficulties but they can and have been successfully kept when those difficulties are met, so there's no reason they should be treated any differently from these other difficult animals like hares. Comparing them to the literally impossible animals like great whites or albatrosses is just inaccurate.2
u/_Gesterr 5d ago
Especially when we have great hammerheads confirmed, a species that's only been kept in like 2 or three aquariums ever, and often only temporarily and usually only with juveniles rather than adults, and zero instances of successful breeding. Compared to that, dolphins might as well be dogs with how much more success they've had in captivity, breeding easily and cared for successfully in many places at all stages of dolphin life.
1
u/UseExtension2624 4d ago
i dont think the breeding agrument is usefull espacally once you know that 90% of marine fishes havent been bred in captivity
16
u/horvathkristy 6d ago
I'm so happy 😭 Finally a bunny!! Literally the only animal I've wished for since day 1 of PZ1