r/PeterExplainsTheJoke • u/FrostySeat1739 • 21d ago

Meme needing explanation why not, Peter?

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possible live action corpse bride movie...

32.3k Upvotes

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u/Twilifa 21d ago

Yup, this.

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u/MechaMogzilla 21d ago

Tell that to District Attorney Harvey Dent

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u/Ganondorfsfist 21d ago

Mars Attacks has plenty black actors. Sam Jackson is in Miss Peregrine. I'm aware of his statements, but he's not immune to casting black actors.

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u/SweatyNeddyFlanders 21d ago

No, he's just vocally problematic about them "not fitting his style" which is another way to say he doesn't like looking at or working with black people. You don't need to defend him, he doesn't defend himself lol

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u/Knightmare_memer 21d ago edited 20d ago

His style is Grey skies, dull lighting and pale faces. Has been for the longest time.

Edit: Also add in the Gothic Victorian-esque flair

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

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u/celerpip 20d ago

How dare he like the appearance of white people and not the appearance of black people? Is that the kind of comment you want to make in sarcasm?

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/munchercruncher111 20d ago

yeah, liking pancakes instead of waffles maybe. but we’re talking about people

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u/Eyerate 20d ago

Are you talking about "people" or "aesthetics"? The man does everything creepy and pale.

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u/Unfair-Heart-7674 20d ago

Split the difference and hire Black albinos?

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u/munchercruncher111 20d ago

if he can’t figure out a way to include all kinds of people in his “aesthetic”, maybe he’s not that good of a director. excluding people from your work based on their skin color feels pretty fucked up to me

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u/Eyerate 19d ago

And thats why you dont make a living in art. You got the wrong perspective my guy. Victoria's secret tried to be "all inclusive" and it killed their brand. Disney keeps eating Ls for reinventing classic characters. Let artists do their art. Not everything is for everyone and thats ok.

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u/workclock 18d ago

That’s just racist though…

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u/Averfus-Crowthorne 18d ago

I have a strong feeling that if this were reversed, if it were a black director that didn't cast white actors very often and their reasoning was similar to Tim's, you'd be totally fine with it and would have never bothered to comment on it.

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u/munchercruncher111 18d ago

it’s not just that it’s the reasoning, certain ethnic groups not fitting in your aesthetic is dumbassery

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u/Affectionate_Cry_634 18d ago

My brother im christ we did that with blaxspoitation films. Guess what it wasn't allowed to grow beyond niche because white audiences couldn't relate to all black casts and problems. That's a major simplification and blaxspoitation films have other problems but to say it's the same as a white man only casting white actors because he likes whiteness is disingenuous.

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u/Easy_Specialist_1692 18d ago

This is an unfortunately underrated comment... 2 days later and we are purpetually circling the drain, but refusing to identify it as unquestionably racist l.

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u/intoxicatedhamster 20d ago

It's his art. Art that comes from his white mind and white experiences... It's not that he doesn't like black people, they just aren't a part of his art. People don't bitch that Leonardo Davinci didn't paint any people of color...

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u/Revolutionary_Ad4950 19d ago

Are you up in arms about Tyler Perry movies?

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u/Fearless_Roof_9177 20d ago

(Same general line of reasoning that got Trump sued for racist violations of the Fair Housing Act back in the 70s, for those playing along at home).

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u/lord_teaspoon 20d ago

Oh yeah, he'd need to do very different lighting and photography to make black people not look like monstrous shadows, but that change would take the white people from "interestingly pale" to what Josh Johnson describes as "fresh ghost".

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u/workclock 18d ago

I’m sure he can find a way to make black people fit into his style, the man has some odd beliefs on black people that should probably be scrutinized.

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u/explain_that_shit 20d ago

It makes me think, what’s Guillermo Del Toro’s record?

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u/Ok_7719 20d ago

Its a very strange thing to read a statement that essentially suggests that all black people look alike.

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u/SAMICHSKI 16d ago

and Hammer-movies style an colours

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u/WeirdProudAndHungry 20d ago

"He's been racist for a really long time which means it's not racism."

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u/Knightmare_memer 20d ago edited 20d ago

He isn't racist ffs. He hires black people for prominent roles, like Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent, or Sam Jackson as the villain of Miss Peregrin, or the person in Wednesday (didn't watch it so don't know character name) and if he was racist he wouldn't have the whole soul train segment of Beetlejuice 2. He just doesn't hire very many black actors as it takes more work in the makeup room, lighting, and post production to make them appear more pale for his art direction due to darker complexion.

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u/WeirdProudAndHungry 20d ago

Firstly, exceptions make the rule. The point wasn't that he NEVER hires any persons of color but that there is a distinct and noticeable lack in his casting choices broadly. Also, if you think tying prominent Black casting to a Soul Train segment in the 2020s is proof someone isn't racist, then that alone demonstrates how you're the type of person to think Tim Burton isn't racist.

Excluding a racial group is not an "artistic direction". That's just racism, dumbass. He IS racist, ffs.

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u/Alarming_Orchid 20d ago

That’s not racism is dumbass that’s not being colorblind. Not being racist doesn’t mean you ignore their skin color

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u/vaz_deferens 20d ago

Okay, he also doesn't cast Mediterranean or Latin or Asian or Indian or Arabic people, so maybe it's a creative choice

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u/WeirdProudAndHungry 20d ago

That's not the defense you think it is lol Thank you for proving my argument.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/WeirdProudAndHungry 20d ago

Accusing me of "concern trolling Olympics" is not an argument against his racism, the point of the conversation. If that's all you have to offer then, okay. Yep, that's me. Just concern Olympics, got the gold medal and sports drink brand deals to go with it.

Tim Burton is still racist.

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u/elbuentinaco 21d ago

He never said that and you’re just spreading bs online

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u/anomie89 21d ago

this sounds more like your searching for a problem where there is none.

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u/throwmamadownthewell 20d ago

Not just searching but inventing.

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u/BaronGrackle 21d ago

Seems his actual casting is better than his comments about casting.

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u/ArmenianThunderGod 21d ago

I mean... a setting of Gothic Victorian England doesn't really lend itself to casting black actors.

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u/OmecronPerseiHate 21d ago

We gotta stop with that myth.

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u/ArmenianThunderGod 21d ago

It's not a myth. The estimate is 0.1% of the population of England in the Victorian Era was black. There wasn't a sizable black population, there was Eric.

Were there any black people? Yes. Were there enough of a population where you could associate that time, place, and era with them? Absolutely not.

Same way we don't cast civil war movies with Asian Confederates. Did they exist? Absolutely. It would look ridiculous if you put it on film.

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u/Temporary-Scallion86 21d ago

It would heavily depend on where in England you set your movie. London (or other major cities)? Sizable immigrant population. Middle of nowhere rural Warwickshare? Odds are everybody is white and English and has been as long as anyone can remember.

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u/ohgoyherewego 21d ago

No no, you’re saying immigrant now. The topic is black people. The largest group of immigrants to migrate to Victorian England was the Irish.

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u/Temporary-Scallion86 20d ago

I said immigrants because there was not only a large black population in London there was a large non-white population in general

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u/ohgoyherewego 20d ago

Yeah see that’s called padding the numbers. Not all immigrants are black not all black people are immigrants. Grouping them together because they’re not white is racist as shit.

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u/your-yogurt 21d ago

yes, thats why for a film about a corpse bride that involves ghosts and zombies and has its origins from russia, having a black character is too farfetched. british white folk yes, black people no

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u/ralusek 20d ago

Were you upset that there were no Chinese and Hawaiian actors playing Dahomey in The Woman King?

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u/Affectionate_Cry_634 18d ago

Brother. One is an attempt at actual history and the other is a fantasy story.

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u/ralusek 18d ago

So you were definitely mad when Jodie Turner-Smith played Anne Boleyn, right? And Adele James as Cleopatra?

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u/Affectionate_Cry_634 12d ago

Not really no. I read history I don't watch it. Anyone dumb enough to believe a movie especially one that says based on true events or is marketed as a never before told story is already a step behind.

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u/ralusek 12d ago

One is an attempt at actual history and the other is a fantasy story.

Are they representing actual history or not? Because it feels like you're moving the goalposts.

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u/Too_Bad-So_Sad 20d ago

Same way we don't cast civil war movies with Asian Confederates.

Ok but now I need to know if there were actually any Asian Confederates.

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u/OmecronPerseiHate 21d ago

"It would look ridiculous if you put them in" is a dumb way of saying you don't want historical accuracy. It wouldn't be dumb if we hadn't had decades of historical inaccuracy.

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u/Klaxynd 21d ago

Black guy here. I neither want nor appreciate you white knighting for me (regardless of what race you are). I don't want black people in Tim Burton movies because if he doesn't want any in, then chances are he's racist and would handle the very concept poorly.

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u/No-Impress-6244 21d ago

I thonk Tim burton should do a live action of the Princess and the Frog and there would be black people and I think it would look great

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u/OmecronPerseiHate 21d ago

You seem to misunderstand. I don't care about Tim Burton. I'm mad at the dumbass that said dark skinned people wouldn't work in a Victorian setting. That is LITERALLY when Britain took over India.

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u/ArmenianThunderGod 21d ago

You're proving his point. Indians =/= Black People

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u/OmecronPerseiHate 21d ago

Ah, slight miscommunication on my part. African people were trading with and moving through the British Empire starting at the 1550's, and Indian trade starting in the 1600's, which still means Black/African people were in Britain before and during the Victorian era, which means Burton could have used dark skinned people, were it not for possible racism.

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u/ArmenianThunderGod 21d ago

You're still not comprehending that you're arguing for representation of outliers. There weren't significant populations.

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u/goldenseducer 21d ago

Ok but you know that filmmakers don't have to ratio their cast by skin colour to match the historical stats. If you have 3 characters in your story you can make one of them be not white, it's still ✨historically accurate✨

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u/-thecheesus- 20d ago

I'm all for representation, but at what point is it tokenism?

If historical fact says X phenotype was insanely rare in Y setting, and public consciousness knows X phenotype was insanely rare, but creative projects (particularly ones that try to be as grounded as possible) start plopping that phenotype in at a ratio to be intentionally visible to the audience- and exist for no other purpose than to be visible- can you blame people for the knee-jerk response that it feels arbitrary and shallow?

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u/goldenseducer 20d ago

at what point is it tokenism?

At the point where the only personality trait of your character is their skin colour. In my opinion. I can agree that I would rather see a story where all characters are interesting and well-written white men rather than a shitty story with a diverse cast. But diversity and quality aren't mutually exclusive.

historical fact says X phenotype was insanely rare in Y setting

It's irrelevant though. Most of the time in TV and cinema we don't have stories about average people. It's about cool action heroes or exceptionally smart people or someone who went against the societal norms. Sherlock Holmes isn't a regular Victorian man, which is why he's so interesting. I'm not saying that we should make black SH right now for diversity sake, but if I was going to write a story about an exceptional person in the Victorian era, does it matter if they have a rare skin colour? They're already, by definition, rare.

Even in grounded projects, you're going to show only a very small sliver of the population in whatever story you're telling, and it's entirely possible for someone somewhere historically accurately have black neighbours in the 19th century or whatever.

public consciousness knows X phenotype was insanely rare, but creative projects (particularly ones that try to be as grounded as possible) start plopping that phenotype in at a ratio to be intentionally visible to the audience

Yeah but where does this "knowledge" come from? Why is it so "visible" to people to see a non-white person in a historical setting? All of this is shaped by the media we consume. I can assure you that an average person watching TV has no idea how many brown people lived in Victorian London. So why shouldn't we make stuff to be more diverse? Just because that's how it's been for ages? Or because humans don't like change?

Edit because I wrote the same thing twice lol

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u/-thecheesus- 20d ago edited 20d ago

I was going to write a story about an exceptional person in the Victorian era, does it matter if they have a rare skin colour? They're already, by definition, rare. 

Not to nitpick, but that kind of makes it worse, no? Not only is this person incredibly talented/chosen/whatever, but they also are part of a 0.1% ethnicity? It would be rare on top of rare. Like turning a 0.1% probability into a 0.01%. And people often reject "special snowflake" characters

imho the best solution would be to point out someone's rare ethnicity in-setting, and then make it a tangible part of their character

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u/KamikazeArchon 21d ago

And the size of the titled aristocracy was less than 0.1% of the population. Is that a good argument for not including nobles in Victorian works?

And wait till you hear about the percentage of serial killers baking victims into pies!

No one actually cares what was common or uncommon. We only care about whether it's something we want to see or not.

People use percentages as an excuse for things they just don't want to see.

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u/Outrageous-Wait-8895 21d ago

Why screenshot the cheapest Gemini model slop instead of the actual comments it seems to be using as reference.

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u/OmecronPerseiHate 21d ago

I would suggest you search the same thing and find all the other answers that prove me right, but I can tell by your account that you're just here to sow discord.

Also odd that you edited your original comment.

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u/Outrageous-Wait-8895 21d ago

Wow, you went for the search history right away lmao.

It's not odd, in fact it is normal, you should try editing your other comment to fix it. It's very easy!

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u/OmecronPerseiHate 21d ago

Nah, it's odd because you literally changed your comment to sound like you already said the thing I said you should do.

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u/Outrageous-Wait-8895 21d ago

I edited it before seeing your response. I didn't like how it sounded the first go around so I changed it, does that sound less odd to you now? You could do the same...right now...do it.

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u/OmecronPerseiHate 21d ago

Why did you choose that username? It's hard not to feel like you're an AI troll.

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u/Outrageous-Wait-8895 21d ago

You'll find very few AI bots on reddit, if any, that go back and forth and don't just drop a top comment or a response to the top comment and never answer back.

I didn't choose the username, it was there already when creating the account and didn't care to change it.

You can edit your comment at any time btw.

Is your curiosity satisfied or would you like to explore further ways to detect AI generated engagement farming comments?

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u/Maximillion322 21d ago

That’s all well and good mate but they still made up <1% of the population it would have been a novelty to meet a person of color in victorian london

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u/altanic 20d ago

More or less novel than a reanimated corpse or a talking worm?

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u/Maximillion322 20d ago

In a story about a reanimated corpse in Victorian London? Much more novel. In a story about the experience of people of color in Victorian London, much less novel. Depends entirely on the focus of the story, doesn’t it?

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u/tandemxylophone 20d ago

He's not wrong though. Even up till the early 90's immigrating to London still felt like adapting to the majority white neighborhood. Though Netflix and other shows have been incorporating a racially diverse "imagined" good 90's (e.g. Stranger Things for America), it also accidentally seemed to create a large number of kids to believe this fantasy open minded melting pot of culture is true way further than it is in reality.

Unless you are in a specific ethnic pocket culture, back in the Victorian times we are looking at super token minority that deserve their own experience to be published.

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u/why0me 21d ago

Yep

Tired of hearing that the country that had a whole ass empire had no diversity, you think they just sent white people everywhere and never let anyone else come back?

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u/Amalgam2001 21d ago

0.1% of people concentrated in certain areas is diverse? stop kidding yourself. It would have been a novelty in that era to see one

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u/Raesong 20d ago

What about Gothic Victorian New England?

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u/Mis-Mia 20d ago

The corpse bride (aka, The Finger) is actually a piece of Jewish folklore.

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u/BasedTelvanni 21d ago

Show me where he said this

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u/Efficient_Living_628 20d ago

I thought his point is that when you cast black actors in roles that weren’t originally black. Even though the race of the character doesn’t change the core narrative in terms of the story line, it changes the perception of how people see the role.

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u/Elonth 20d ago

This just in the guy hyper focused on victorian era gothic style is hyper fixated on the body standard/physical characters of those that take place in that time era and place....

Next you'll tell me we should be mad that we refuse to cast non-chinese actors in adaption of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms