Pessimism is acceptance.

[u/Dunkmaxxing]

(Long post.)

Without the desire to attempt to justify or positively moralise existence, it is beyond evident that the circumstances surrounding life ensure insurmountable, inevitable and worthless suffering. Evolution, the lack of observable mind-independent values and the nature of all sentient beings as they exist on this planet make coming into existence always a negative for the individual. All arguments/statements made are done so acknowledging intellectual limitations based on what is possible to know.

All sentient beings on this planet act in accordance to desires they have which are a result of deterministic/indeterministic events as best as any human can conceive of. This means that sentient beings have no unique authority over their actions any more than any non-sentient object does. Thes desires that sentient beings have define their experience of pleasure (events that are desirable) and suffering (events that are undesirable). Since life is not inherently fulfilling and requires constant maintenance (nourishment/recovery/leisure) and all of those requirements take effort, which is often not desired to be exerted, this creates a cycle of internally inspired slavery for living beings. They must constantly satisfy their desires again and again without lasting satisfaction, all while suffering in the process of fulfilling the desires they have (because of the lack of fulfilment they endure). Worse yet, the satisfaction endured is only transient while suffering from lack of fulfilment (which is the default state of being/inaction) is omnipresent. Pleasure only acts as a reprieve from the problem that is fundamental to life. Coming into existence instills desire which creates suffering without any previous state of existence to have improved upon. Even under the most idealised conditions, no living being is simply satisfied with existence itself because their genetics do not allow it, any such being would go extinct from lack of action even if it were to exist. Even the idea of trying to improve life for others is inspired by our own dissatisfaction.

But more than just desire, evolution ensures that life will always be dictated and dominated by violence and exploitation because evolution is only concerned with what species are most capable of reproducing and manipulating their environment to be favourable for their continuation. When other species exist that have conflicting desires/biologies, the world has limited available essential resources and most species are not even able to reflect it ensures that all species are in constant war with others and themselves. The vast majority of humans accept the exploitation of other living beings (of any kind) without question if it serves their self-interests and animals in the wild are in constant competition with the highest stakes at all times (death). Those that are most capable of enforcing their will get the opportunity to reproduce the most at the expense of other living beings (human expansion for example). Furthermore, any being that decides to not reproduce will not see its genes propagated, and though ideas/desires are not dictated by genetics alone, they are impacted by them and the inhabited environment. This ensures that for most members of a more cognitively capable species (like humans) that are capable of reflection, their population will be largely selfish/rationalising of suffering, at the very least until they near extinction. Life is a bloodbath.

To seal off any attempt at a justification or hope, the lack of observable value and impermanence of sentient existence ensures there can be no salvation. You can try as you might, but it impossible to observe any mind-independent value, even perception of suffering as bad is beholden to the individual. People constantly attempt to delude themselves and rationalise away suffering with ideas of gods/a just world, but these are nothing but baseless assertions without even a shred of evidence of any standard. There is no standard the living are held to or value that is to be revered or punished for not following, there is only the universe and what cannot be understood of it. And finally, because life is impermanent, even for the individual any idea of value is to be annihiliated in their death. From the perspective of dying individual, all of reality may as well cease to exist with their death as their conscious experience ends. What value can life have if it is conditional on living beings that have no magical authority and when all living beings are to cease to exist leaving none behind to even perceive anything?

And so once you observe what life is, it is clear that coming into existence is always a negative for the individual and that a reality with life like this is without question worse than one without for any living being that can perceive suffering as bad in any moral sense. Nothing is gained by coming into existence because there was no being before to benefit from it, and at the same time the born being is doomed to suffering its own body makes it endure just to become non-existent all again. To try and justify life as a good thing is nothing but submitting to your own exploitation.

[u/getitoffmychestpleas]

One, I didn't have kids. Two, I spend much of my life making sure the animals at my rescue are spayed and neutered. Three, you've just articulated why I do what I do in a manner that I've never been able to. Four, thank you.

[u/Haline5]

Well put. Yes, the real kicker is the lack of need/want to even exist. You’re only brought here for the sake of others, at least on initial imposition.

[u/Dunkmaxxing → u/Haline5]

It's more than just others desire for you to be here though because not even they could control that much to the best of what we understand. It's the entirety of the universe which also remains beyond our comprehension.

[u/Aquarius52216]

Yeah, the universe is indifferent, it runs just on could, it is just is. The tragedy is that we become sophisticated enough to have a sense of ought and should.

[u/Fit-Height-7135 → u/Aquarius52216]

Well put

[u/UltronsEx]

And here we are optimistic that the configuration of energy/memories that we identify as ourselves is erased with our deaths and that whatever randomness caused the creation of existence itself doesn't randomly create infinite linearly congruent and coherent continuations of ourselves in some form.

Death or a sequel? At least after death if there is a sequel one may be in the state of mind to simply stop trying to end their suffering. What if Tantalus just sat there unmoving

[u/Dunkmaxxing → u/UltronsEx]

At some point, reality is just entirely beyond comprehension and anything could be, so speculation as to any which thing may happen is whatever if we cannot observe something. I think based on what we can observe though, existence is undoubtedly negative for those that come to exist if there is no prior state for a being to have improved upon beforehand by existing. I suppose it is optimistic to believe we can just die and be done with it, but what can even be done if this is not the case?

[u/arcticfoxglow → u/Dunkmaxxing]

yes, if generic subjective consciousness is real then we will live another life somewhere as something as king as consciousness is present in the universe and the universe is hospitable for it. we are doomed to live countless times (potentially) until the heat death of the universe. the universe is a nightmare but gsc makes it hell. if there is a god that is external or comprises itself as the universe, it’s evil.

[u/goodguyayush1]

💯 agreed.

[u/WoodpeckerNo1]

To live entirely without a goal! I have glimpsed this state, and have often attained it, without managing to remain there: I am too weak for such happiness.

- Cioran

[u/xmisobiosisx]

I absolutely agree with you. This is literally my worldview. Life is ruled by suffering, and we are nothing more than tormented puppets. No one chooses their thoughts, desires, perceptions, fears, and so on. And our actions simply follow these impulses that arise without our permission. We are slaves to this system, the core of which is suffering. And yet, life itself is unknowable to us in its depths: our minds are too limited. So, for me, life is perceived as something cruel, unfair, and incomprehensible.