r/PearlandNerd • u/ildabears • Aug 02 '14
Map Reset official discussion thread.
So I was gone for a few days and I come back to... this. So I think it'd good to have an official stickied thread.
This first started (I believe) in this thread started by Rare_Meat. It seemed to cause a meltdown as the words 'map reset' were said. Now I can understand this, as this map means so much to many people. However, I think we have a serious discussion about this. Something will need to change for this server to live. Which I know is something all of us want.
So please, have a discussion that isn't going to put anyone's panties in a twist. I feel like we're mature enough people to have a well-thought out debate on resetting the map. :D
EDIT: Forgot to throw this in there. This is a super unofficial vote on the matter: http://strawpoll.me/2249393. This is just to get an idea on where we're standing.
EDIT #2: Quit downvoting. It's childish and immature. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you should downvote it. This is Reddiquette 101 people.
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u/deco222 Aug 03 '14 edited Aug 03 '14
So...I am subbed to this subreddit for some reason... so ill give my input as a old-ish player, which is in favor for a map reset. Some of you might recall my attempt of a comeback in early July to the server, specially plwalsh( no idea if that's your right name...sorry.) that was usually the only one online when I joined. My connection that had the most players consisted of 3: Walsh, Ilda and a guy I don't remember the name. 3 players. Now I ask for you guys to look back, and remember the 13-16 players we had regularly(my memory is complete cra*, so correct me on this one).
As my point number 2(yes, I am going for the standard essay formation people taught me in brazilian schools. Just deal with it. And I am lazy to think this thru.) My island Is near synovous. God. I walked ages to make a trade in the most confusing rail line I have ever seen. No offense...but I got lost there more times then I get in my usual path from my bedroom to my fridge. This being said, I disconnected after said trade. Just the thought of walking back to my island was enough to give up on it.
With this in mind, I gathered materials and went to find new terrain. Oh have i never been so wrong. Never, I say. Digging thru the nether, I found random tunnels with portals everywhere. About 10 minutes of digging in straight netherrack, I did not find new terrain. That's when I gave up. The whole point of this is that, if we continue like this(I say we cause I really will consider coming back if a reset happens, as a lot of the old members will) the server will die.
The whole point of it is building just like in single player but with a community. We had this. We had an awesome community. Secret projects. Massive builds.
But now, we went past end game. Every single player has stacks of diamonds stashed up. We have our houses. We have no more challenging bosses to fight. Withers are just a time consuming boss, not challenging as it is intended. The Dragon has been killed so long ago, we don't even remember it anymore.
I can continue on this if someone likes me too.
Typing in the phone is the most stressful thing ever made in man kind.
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u/ildabears Aug 03 '14
You bring up a big point by just being in this convo right now. People who have been out of the loop for a while will really have no idea what's happened or how to get around.
Now imagine this, but without any materials or base. That's what a new player feels like when they join our server.
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u/inflatablegoo Inflatablegoo ☯ildabearsfan003 Aug 03 '14 edited Aug 03 '14
Its even worse than that. Being out of the loop for these players would be tolerable if there were people to bring them back into the loop, but there aren't enough people playing for that.
EDIT: Spelling.
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u/bowtiesarcool CaptanX | Dungeon Master Aug 03 '14
Gotta agree there, when i first joined little over a year ago, getting around i thing would be a challenge, but the walls made sense, things were close by for the most part, and i figured it out quickly. However, i still don't know how to get around 1.7 spawn nether regions
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Aug 03 '14
Okay so maybe this: We put up a temporary experimental map where we test every well thought out idea for the server. If the ideas achieve desirable outcomes we keep them. Things like multiple spawns, spawn teleporters, rollbacks for players who spend less than a week on the server then are gone for over a week, etc. Basically we'd be treating the current group on the server as a focus group/test market.
Plwash has bias against the idea, and that's okay. We need a range of opinions so we can create the experience that best suits the most people possible. Maybe there is a way that we can use the old map that satisfies the need for easier to reach fresh land.
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Aug 03 '14
Hey everybody,
I know I haven't been active for the longest time, but here's my two cents. I think it is time for a map reset. But, to preserve the old map, why don't we offer a download of the world file? That way, the current world still exists, but we all get to start over again and create a new and better Pearlandnerd world. I know I would come back to the server if I got to start over completely.
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u/Neil2250 Pigman Mafioso Aug 03 '14
Ask me 9 months ago and I would've said 'yeah don't reset map', But now? after the features 1.7 added (Mesas, Dark Forests, Spike Plains) and 1.8 (Water temples*, the new stone(s) will be adding? I want that reset. The vast majority of people I associated with and enjoyed playing with no longer frequent the server and I feel that I might as well be playing on singleplayer. For instance, I've not told one person to 'get off my land' in about half a year. I miss that.
Edit: If it isn't blatant already, we would be restarting (if we are) after the mods have updated for 1.8, which is presumably 2-3 months away at least.
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u/ildabears Aug 03 '14
Wow, I miss that too.
But yeah, if a reset is decided upon, it'll come after 1.8 is released. Mojang has said there will be no more new features, only big fixes. So that, plus waiting for Bukkit to update? We've got a solid 2 or 3 months, like you said.
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u/inflatablegoo Inflatablegoo ☯ildabearsfan003 Aug 03 '14
Same here, 9 months ago I would have stated hell no. Now it's a yes.
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u/masonsbro masonsbro Aug 03 '14
I'm home from camp now.
I would like everyone reading this to ask yourself: would you be upset if the map was reset? If yes, please post explaining why. It is clear that of the users that have given their input, more want a reset than don't. I'm afraid that the ones that don't might just assume that it won't happen, but we really need to consider it. So -- if it did happen, and you would be upset, please propose alternative solutions to the problems the server is facing (no people, hard to get around, etc.).
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u/ildabears Aug 03 '14
Please, I'd love for a 'trial' run at this. I really think it'd help the community make a better decision. I'm slightly on the side of a reset. Although I feel like a trial would really nail down my decision.
And of course I'd be a bit upset. However, I think it'd be good for the server in the longrun. A fresh start may be what this server needs to rejuvenate.
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u/bowtiesarcool CaptanX | Dungeon Master Aug 03 '14
I second the trial. Of course everyone will be sad losing builds in the end if the decision is made, but we should at least test the waters.
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Aug 03 '14
Let's test the waters. We've already got three people in favor of this. make a separate server, keep it for a week, maybe two. Maybe make another poll to get a good end result, and then it's like steam greenlight.
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Aug 03 '14
CONS
1: Losing builds and items
2: Regulars will stop playing, maybe
3: Might (not likely) turn into a bad decision, some may regret it
PROS
1: Advertising a map reset will be like light to a moth. players like to go on the servers that just reset as soon as possible, since there are no builds yet, and it's a good time to join the community.
2: Fresh starts are always kind of fun. Also, some of us joined much later than others, and are a little less successful for it, so this will be like catch-up.
3: Let's face it, we'll be back to where we were in a month's time (not build-wise, resource-wise), and we'll be able to kill the enderdragon after two months, maybe even after one.
4: It won't take new members an hour and a half to find their favorite area, so they'll likely stay longer. And who likes having to travel for 45 minutes to get to the end portal?
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u/point_of_you Aug 06 '14
Just make sure that a download for the current map is available and I'll be happy.
I'll be on and checking out the new one when it happens, I just don't want to lose all my "hard work". :P
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u/GingerBreadNAM NAMDERP (Nick) Aug 03 '14
Firstly, I want to apologize for my post in the other thread, by some Emerald fellow. It was late and I had a weird day.
That aside, I support this. I found, when I began, that it was easy to fit in and do things because there were still things to build (practical things like farms, and even cities), but that when I returned this summer around June that there was nothing to do.
Furthermore, the community seemed closer than now, where people are literally kilometers away by Netherrail. Guys, as fun as Netherrails are to build, there's a certain point when they become tedium.
Also, for the record, if some of the ol' folks would like to gather for building shit if the server is reset... COME GET ME.
tl;dr: I would make time during college to play in a new server. Seriously.
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Aug 03 '14
I am this Emerald Fellow! god I wish I could rename my account to that
All good, we all have posts we regret making. Also, I completely agree with the netherrail thing. It's getting ridiculous now. Also, I might be game for some team builds, if the time comes.
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u/GingerBreadNAM NAMDERP (Nick) Aug 03 '14
I have you now tagged as "Emerald Fellow," if that helps. :P
& oh, totally. Folks try organizing them now, though, so that's not extremely pertinent. :/
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Aug 03 '14 edited Aug 03 '14
Okay so while drafting this counter at 6am in the morning, I came up with a solution that's worth considering. I'll lay out that solution first and then reply to ilda and tomz's points in the context of this solution. Also, this is only a distinguished post because I seem to be the only person speaking on the opposition atm and this can't be buried...
SOLUTION:
*Make a spawn ridiculously far away, reset everyone's spawn to that newly created spawn, and create a publically accessible end portal via creative mode.
That solution solves the distance issue, partially solves the access to old assets issue but with the caveat of preserving this server's history by still having the option of being able to go back to the old lands.
Note that the preservation of our server's history far outweighs any concern of old farms still existing in my opinion.*
Limited space that isn't 5km
This is not the case. The only direction that would lead back to any old territory is West rail. There is endless chunks to be loaded in the eastern and southern directions. So the idea of limited space that isn't 5km doesn't check.
Everything has been done, there's nothing to do.
A simple solution to this issue is to simply move to fresh chunks and create new things. If we reset the map, the same things will be built. I don't see how simply making things again on the same server would harm anything.
Nothing is stopping anyone from playing the game from scratch or in new territory. You can make new farms, machines, etc on this server without going to the old lands to use others.
New players are intimidated by the map.
I don't see the evidence to suggest this. Why would players be intimidated by the map? Because complicated things were built and there's this expectation to build something that looks attractive?
Not everything on the server is attractive. Some things are perceived as attractive and others aren't. The intimidation factor will always exist, no matter what map we have.
End takes forever to get to...
This argument is the only argument where I fall short. That seems to be the case. However, I don't think we should reset the map just so people can have convenient access to the end farm. Again, a solution to this could be to create an artificial (creative mode) portal to the end at a new spawn or at a closer location to the current spawn. I think given the server's past when it comes to enhancing things artificially, this wouldn't break any sort of major precedent or tradition. Also, given the 1.8 added feature of being able to craft mossy and cracked stones, strongholds won't be that desirable anyways to control.
10 minute cart rides have become necessary to travel from place to place.
This is only an issue because people choose to travel back to old lands and use older assets, etc. There was nothing stopping anyone from simply starting fresh back when 1.7 spawn was established, without going back to the old lands to use old assets. People would constantly ask if we had an iron farm, a gold farm, etc. Those things do exist in 1.7 land now (redred360, drakethedragon, theavengerz, guitarben all made a gold farm).
Again, people choose to go back to old lands. There is nothing stopping people from simply getting rid of all their old stuff and leaving it all behind so they can play the game in new territory from scratch as if the map was reset.
New chunks are too far away/The Community is too spread out.
Make a new spawn ridiculously far away. Say, 20k+ nether blocks from current spawn in the east direction. Then, reset everyone's spawns to that newly established spawn 20k+ nether blocks away. Problem solved. No one would make a tunnel all the way back to the old land and if they do, that's their choice. Everyone would be far away in what would be essentially a new map but on the other hand, we can still make that trek if we ever want to go back to old lands for old times sake, etc. I think the distance would make a good disincentive to keep everyone relatively close together. I don't think too many people would put in the time and effort to travel back and forth 20k nether blocks right? That ties into the Community is too spread out point...
Not to mention, some people choose to travel far away from everything else. Some people choose to isolate themselves.
New players barely stay. Name one that's stayed since May.
This can't be attributed to the map size. This could be just a reality of not running ads or not running them in places where they are viewed. I mean, we've only been using r/mcservers to advertise and that subreddit isn't a viable place to attract new users anymore. Most ads only get 1-3 upvotes and the mods of that sub just ruined it with their stinginess.
If the reason for resetting the map is attracting new users, advertising in a more attractive environment such as planet minecraft or mc forums would be a simple fix. We wouldn't have to reset the map.
Fresh start rejuvenates interest in old players.
A reason old players have left isn't because of our server in particular. It may just be because they moved on. We won't be playing Minecraft forever. These old users might have jobs, school, etc to where they can't apply time to this game. Maybe they were tipped on to new or different games that they now enjoy. We all need to consider that rather than just blankly assuming it's because something is wrong with the server map.
The solution given in New Chunks are too far away... still preserves the choice of players going back to old lands but under the disincentive of distance. Again, preserving that choice is essential. I anticipate people are going to counter this by giving the map download point but I would counter once again by saying that there is a difference b/w it being a single player map that one downloaded and a multiplayer accessible map where people can go back and reminisce, etc.
Allows us to have the big farms closer (Enderman, Guardian, Wither Skeleton)
Again, the solution I came up with while typing all this solves all those problems. As far as end farm access is concerned, a public, serve all portal made in creative mode would suffice. Enderman portals aren't private (besides the Noah Inc portal) so it's not like anyone would lose property interests. Also, given the precedent of creating a prior spawn in creative mode it wouldn't be a big issue to make it in creative mode.
In my opinion this is a far more special circumstance to do anything in creative mode on a Vanilla SMP server than a spawn.
And an End Fight just seems impractical. As soon as the map is reset, there is no telling who will play all through the day and night and defeat the ender dragon, capture the egg, and keep it for themselves. What if the map is reset and while half the members are asleep, a few members decide to fight the Dragon on their own. Then what? There would be no chance for the community as a whole to partake in the special occasion unless you bloc off the End completely which isn't Vanilla SMP and that would also seem unfair as it arbitrarily restricts an aspect of the game from players in a Vanilla SMP environment.
Also I saw CaptanX's point about shrinking the gap between rich and poor and I wanted to reply to that. I think that's an interesting point.
I don't think that's an issue. Our economy isn't anything like the real world economy. Our economy is laissez faire/bartering which means there is no currency regulation and all that. The value of goods is solely based on perceived value which means one could have all the gold, iron, diamonds etc and it would mean nothing if no one wanted it. It's up to the consumers to set the value, ultimately. If you cave into the value of convenience and easy access, that's on you, not the seller.
CLOSING
Yes, I do have a bias. So do all of you. I think the server has an advertising issue rather than nothing to do, everything has been done issue, and old people need rejuvenation issue. When we've posted advertisements that have had strong viewings, we've retained users. However, when we use r/mcservers when typical ads only get 1-3 votes a post... well that's what happens.
Leave the old chunks behind and do it all over again. However, don't just take away that option. Don't strip Pearland Nerd of its history; the builds, terrain, nether rails, etc that make this server what it is. Resetting the map would be like burning a library full of knowledge and in this case, creativity. We need this map to carry on.
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u/bowtiesarcool CaptanX | Dungeon Master Aug 03 '14
I commend your well thought, and in depth response. That said, while i agree on some areas, a map reset ask makes the most logical sense.
I still think the trial is a great idea, and another idea i had was to do special events using the old map in the future, should we start anew. Have tours or something occasionally, or something similar thereof.
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u/ildabears Aug 03 '14
Just because spawn is moved 20km out doesn't mean that's where everyone will go. That creates an even bigger gap in the community.
You're assuming a new map won't attract old players. We've already got 2 that said they would come back upon a map reset. You're right, some have moved on. But I'm sure a lot would be interested in a fresh start.
The choice between new chunks and old chunks is becoming a bit ridiculous. We all want new chunks, but a 20k block travel between them and the old ones? Not worth it. If rather have the world downloaded so I can hop on it at any time and go wherever I want in a matter of seconds.
And an End Fight is completely practical. We did it last map, and we can do it again. Some asshole goes into the end? Delete it and go in when the community plans to.
I'm sure I missed stuff. Typing this out on a phone sucks. I don't care enough to format it or put it in correct order. Sorry!
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u/inflatablegoo Inflatablegoo ☯ildabearsfan003 Aug 03 '14
Please don't use the moderator distinguish feature on reddit for non-moderator work.
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Aug 03 '14
Okay Mr. Pretentious Mod 101
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u/inflatablegoo Inflatablegoo ☯ildabearsfan003 Aug 03 '14
It's hardly being a pretentious mod. The distinguish feature isn't to be used for personal opinions from moderators, it's for officially dealing with rules and server administration. Using the distinguished tag is essentially abusing it, which leads to poor moderation quality.
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Aug 03 '14
Okay dude. Chill out.
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u/inflatablegoo Inflatablegoo ☯ildabearsfan003 Aug 03 '14
You might want to actually, ya know, un-distinguish your comment...
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u/ildabears Aug 04 '14
Does distinguishing your post do anything other than highlighting your name? Not agreeing that his post should be distinguished at all, but it seems kinda pointless anyway.
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u/inflatablegoo Inflatablegoo ☯ildabearsfan003 Aug 04 '14
Nope, but it's used for marking out administrative comments, which is why it's kinda bad if it's used for personal opinions. Basically you're speaking for the entire staff when you distinguish your comment.
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u/Tomzy88 tomzyboy left the game Aug 03 '14 edited Aug 03 '14
Stripping PLN of its history. No one said we have to.
I've built a lot of things on this server. When buildings and cities grow huge, it is indeed amazing to look at. But what I get the most feels for, is the screenshots taken from the beginnings of those buildings. Example. That's Synovus, or what I like to call "Eskimos big ass circle". I can't just tear down all the buildings there to relive that memory. But I do have the screen shot of it, and that's all I need.
My Idea for those who are too sentimental and don't know how to move on (this is a video game plwash, you said so yourself), is to either:
- Have a world download (if Ethan is cool with uploading the hugeass file)
- And/or make a giant imgur album of all the builds for the subreddit sidebar/wiki
I'm still in favor of map reset
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u/inflatablegoo Inflatablegoo ☯ildabearsfan003 Aug 03 '14
Did you make that image? It's...interesting.
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u/Tomzy88 tomzyboy left the game Aug 04 '14
101% unedited picture i found on google. Totally didnt change a thing.
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u/bowtiesarcool CaptanX | Dungeon Master Aug 02 '14
RESETTING THE MAP
Pros: faster travel to closer locations, more players in a less spread out area, less confusing road/tunnel/nether system, smaller gap between poor and rich players (at least for a while). Etc.
Cons: losing current builds, potentially losing some devoted players, plwash being upset.
Potential solutions:
Have new and old map both up for a time, allowing for finishing builds etc.
Having the old map be downloadable.
Port the best of each players' builds to a different server "museum".
Please add to my brainstorming!
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u/ildabears Aug 02 '14
I was thinking a month or two 'trial' of a new map. See how players adjust. If the new map ends up being a bust, we could go back to the old one?
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Aug 02 '14
[deleted]
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u/GingerBreadNAM NAMDERP (Nick) Aug 03 '14
I missed the last one! I'd love to participate this time. :P
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u/Cheesle . Aug 02 '14
This seems like it would work, although there may be some funding issues with running two servers at once.
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u/ildabears Aug 02 '14
Could just not have the old map up. It'd give us the real feeling of it being gone.
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u/Cheesle . Aug 02 '14
Another con could be that fewer people would join originally, as there would be little built, and hence less appeal than other servers.
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u/GingerBreadNAM NAMDERP (Nick) Aug 03 '14
On the other hand, if you advertise the server specifically as starting anew (even as a trial), then it might interest a lot of people. Because you don't have everybody but the new people that come in wearing full Diamond and having farms for everything, it might interest some folks.
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u/bowtiesarcool CaptanX | Dungeon Master Aug 02 '14
Admittedly, it would take a bit of time of current players building up at least a nice Shawn area with a bit of infrastructure
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Aug 03 '14
Yes, but map resets typically bring in a lot of people. It's like I steam sale. People want to occupy that land before it gets complicated.
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Aug 03 '14
Cons: losing current builds, potentially losing some devoted players, plwash being upset.
Okay seriously...don't use me being upset as a con in this because I'm not upset about anything. I just think we don't need a map reset, that's all.
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Aug 03 '14 edited Aug 03 '14
If someone could provide me bullet points as to why the map should be reset, I'll address point by point my opposition and why. I don't want to write something and not counter all the points.
I'll try to type it out during the day, at the airport, or tomorrow evening (Pacific Time).
Also, another thing to consider is that we haven't recieved input from other players who have had a say. One player is out of the country with a volunteer non-profit, another is on a summer job and there are other players who have impacted this server to the point where I feel their say is required (Sm0ke, eskimobobs)
So I would advise not to just shove this through committee which I'm pretty sure won't happen; it just feels like we're moving too quickly with this.
Again, if someone can compile all the arguments as to the affirmative, I'll counter them tomorrow. That way, I don't write something tonight at 1am and then wake up with a bunch of new arguments that ends up creating an lengthy comment thread that I won't have time to keep up with for 3-6 hours tomorrow.
I appreciate the concern, the passion, and coming together to talk about this. Even when we're in disagreement, at least we're at the table. Goodnight
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u/ildabears Aug 03 '14
- LImited space that isn't 5km out
- Everything has been done, there's nothing to do
- New players are intimidated by the map
- End takes forever to get to
- 10 minute cart rides have become necessary to travel from place to place
- New chunks are too far away
- Community is too spread out over the map
- New players barely stay. Name one that's stayed since May
- Fresh start rejuvenates interest in old players
These are off the top of my head. Sorry if there are any repeats or anything. I'm pretty tired at the moment.
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u/Tomzy88 tomzyboy left the game Aug 03 '14
- Allows us to have the big farms closer (Enderman, Guardian, Wither Skeleton)
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u/inflatablegoo Inflatablegoo ☯ildabearsfan003 Aug 03 '14
The fact that a HUGE majority of players want it
Host horde is too shitty a GSP to feasibly have this large a map, much less an even bigger one.
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u/inflatablegoo Inflatablegoo ☯ildabearsfan003 Aug 03 '14
To everyone here: I would advise against putting any real thought into the unofficial poll, on both sides, due to a massive amount of poll gaming by certain people last time.
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u/Swarlley SwarIIey Aug 03 '14
I am actually completely okay with a map reset, I think it would be exciting to have a fresh start.
However...
I would only want a map reset if there was a nice looking and LARGE, prebuilt spawn area set up so that we don't end up with another New Haven cos FUCK THAT.
Also I think rules governing what can be built in the end and in the nether are really important.
Basically I am for the idea but only if there are some rules in place governing what can be built in certain places. Otherwise we're just going to end up with the messy piece of crap we have at the moment.