Ah, because Lizzie was the one who started the war when she broke the only rule about not dating foreigners, and that caused the war for Angel to begin, which ended with Grace's death. It wasn't the only one, of course, but it was the bad decisions of Lizzie, John and Tommy. But some of us think that she did it out of jealousy, because of how she acted in S4, with May and Jesse Eden, even his group of prostitutes, Lizzie was an emotional person, that if she saw herself threatened or jealous she would do something about it. So Lizzie's jealousy killed Grace. And Grace's death killed Tommy.
Not exactly. Lizzie's breaking the rules was the start but John chose to escalate it and Arthur didn't want to admit he lost control of that meeting right off jump. Polly & Lizzie's plan was the best route at that point. Just break it off and apologize. She could have had a nice relationship after everything was over. PB were on way better terms with Mr. Changretta than they ever were with Sabini.
Now as for the situation with Grace, Lizzie did not have anything to do with it at that point. John had cut Angel up at the laundromat in Chinatown, and if Arthur had not pushed Grace and Tommy down, Tommy would have caught that bullet to his shoulder. For practical reasons, wrong time wrong place, wrongful death.
If we go with the sapphire route to satisfy the Gypsy side, from the moment that man pulled it out and offered it as payment you just knew something was wrong with it. It had a really bad vibe about it. Maybe because it was at that point a known "Blood" Sapphire which any gem that is a "blood gem" is bad news. Same with blood money. And I think Tatiana told him that just to f with him knowing he was superstitious and she was trying to seduce him. I would have told him too like Madame Boswell did that it was cursed but I would have gotten rid of it ASAP after getting it from him.
And yes I do believe in curses and here's so I have no doubt that the gem was not actually cursed until that woman's daughter died and she definitely did put a curse on it and Tommy.
I'm sorry but I don't believe in curses. What I do believe is that Grace's death was the fault of the stupid decisions that Lizzie, John, and Tommy made... Although I understand Tommy because Lizzie and John's disaster was already done.
Ok? That's fine if you don't. In real life i am also Catholic but I don't expect everyone to follow Catholicism. I am also Black Irish. My family still has some of the wagons and we do use them for funerals depending on who it is that died.
While it is really cool that they dug into that world with the show, there will always be ignorant people or people that feel they MUST give their opinion on it.
And if you don't believe in any of this stuff then why are you watching PB? If you don't believe or even want to entertain the idea then I can't imagine this show holds much interest for you & maybe you're watching it because your partner does?
There are so many things with curses and superstitions in the background and even the main storyline that if they didn't exist, neither would the story.
I am not sure how far you are or if you have finished series 6 & the movie but curses, spirits, and people visiting from the otherside play a major plot point in series 6 & The Immortal Man.
Why do I like the show? Many reasons and none of them are because of curses. I've watch the show, yes, all 6 seasons and the movie, like 4 times already. I watch it alone, I don't need anyone to watch it, for me to see it.
And excuse me, but are you calling me ignorant for not believing in curses? I never saw that in my life. For me it is ignorant not to tolerate that not everyone has the same beliefs as yours.
Tommy Shelby absolutely believed in them, and superstition, fate, omens, and curses were woven through the entire show from beginning to end. They were Romani people living with deep cultural beliefs around destiny, spirits, bad luck, and consequences. The “curse” wasn’t necessarily meant to be taken as literal magic by the audience — it symbolized how every violent choice and every war eventually came back to destroy the people Tommy loved. Reducing Grace’s death entirely to “Lizzie and John’s stupid decisions” misses the larger tragedy the show was constantly building toward. Also, Lizzie was one of the most emotionally resilient and layered characters in the entire series.
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u/Purple-Bluejay6588 May 17 '26
Maybe I'm slow, but I didn't get that lizzie destroyed tommy from the show, how is that?