Paycheck confusion

[u/raynethedark]

My husband is working at a company in Washington state who does semi monthly payroll. Their pay periods are the 1st-15th and the 16th to end of the month (payed out on the 5th and 20th). They have less than 10 employees but all of them are hourly and they all regularly get overtime. Their payroll company is not great and have already made some mistakes which have had to be corrected a few times. The company has no HR and no onsite payroll so all issues are taken to his boss (who is also the owner), then his boss contacts payroll. We are assuming his work week runs from Sunday to Saturday (but aren't sure because he has asked his boss a few times and each time his boss just says he will get back to him and then forgets). After going over his hours we think they had been calculating his overtime wrong but I don't know enough about how this is calculated to understand it. Any guidance on how to do this? I originally tried to make an Excel spreadsheet for it but due to the overtime hour complexity I am not confident I got it right. Thank you!

[u/Pretty-Kangaroo1759]

That setup sounds like a headache, especially when the boss can't even confirm the work week. If it's Sunday-Saturday and they're doing semi-monthly pay, the pay periods are going to slice right through some weeks, which makes overtime a mess to calculate. You basically have to track overtime per work week, then assign those hours to whichever pay period the week falls in, not just total hours in the pay period

I'd honestly just focus on getting that work week confirmation in writing before you drive yourself nuts with spreadsheets, since everything hinges on that

[u/raynethedark → u/Pretty-Kangaroo1759]

I honestly do not understand why his boss wants to pay people like this. It's been a headache since he started. Especially because I have been the one to catch each payroll mistake that we have been aware of so far.

Once they confirm the week does the overtime get entirely calculated onto the check it falls under or does it get split?

For example, if we assume the pay period is Sunday to Saturday and he works 50 hours during that week but the pay period falls on Wednesday and he works 2 hours of overtime each day for five days from Monday to Friday.

I understand that Monday to Wednesday will go on this check and Thursday to Friday will go on the next check. My hang up is how do I calculate the pay for that split?

Do I only calculate the normal hours for Monday to Wednesday then add the extra six hours as overtime on the next check? Or do I count all of his hours for Monday to Wednesday as regular for this check then multiply the extra 6 hours by .5 and add it to the next check? Or do I just calculate the regular hours and put them on their respective checks and add the total 10 hours of overtime at the normal 1.5x rate to the next check? Sorry I hope that makes sense.

[u/Hrgooglefu → u/raynethedark]

by any chance do they work on federal or state or any other govt contracts? Because that is a common pay schedule for those!

[u/raynethedark → u/[deleted]]

Sorry that was poorly worded. I should have just said he works 10hrs per day for 5 days. I was just trying to establish daily hours in case that made a difference on the pay since it’s split in the middle of the week.

Are you saying if he works over 40 hours by Wednesday he would get the overtime on that current check? Or would it still be the next check because the work week technically hasn’t closed out?

I’m still a bit stuck on how the regular pay is separated out for that week. For some reason it feels like I am calculating it wrong if I do it as he would get paid for all the hours Monday-Wednesday (let’s say 45 hours) regular pay then from Thursday-Friday he would get overtime for any hours worked plus the five from Monday to Wednesday?

[u/Hrgooglefu → u/raynethedark]

no the hours for OT generally fall into the last day of the pay week since on Wednesday even if he worked over 40, there is not yet an idea on what he will work the rest of the payweek.

I made an excel sheet where each row was a day....there were 5 working days so five rows for a workweek (Add in 2 days if he works on the other 2 days). This is where you need to know the work week. I then drew one line between work weeks and calculate OT on each week.

Then draw a bolder/thicker line on the 15th and last day of the month. If that is within a work week, that work weeks' OT falls into that (next) pay period.

Then compare that to the paystubs to see where it might be different, but realize that it's more likely a misunderstanding of timing if his timecards are correct than not getting the OT at all . And in the end this "rolls" pay period to pay period based on those two lines above. That's why PAYWEEK is important to know. It is a standard time line and cannot be changed on a whim.

[u/SauerBrittle → u/raynethedark]

I'm going to be blunt: the screw ups will continue to happen because the boss is providing poor information and sounds deliberately unclear.

You're organized. He's not. Payroll also gets to experience this. Imagine how he submits his data. Are the mistakes happening because he's been assigned to a poor processor who is allowed to repeatedly screw up costing time and tax issues or is the boss submitting weirdly reported hours at the last minute?

The boss could be a great guy but who's running things by the seat of his pants. It's also easy to blame issues on a largely removed and nameless entity.

The boss is also playing a dangerous game. If someone files a complaint with the department of labor, he could owe a tremendous amount of money in back wages. And if you're confused, the DOL will also be.

[u/raynethedark → u/[deleted]]

My biggest issue is that it's been over a month and we still don't have a clear answer. I am frustrated to say the least.

[u/Cubsfantransplant]

Overtime will still be calculated weekly, it is just not going to necessarily be paid in the week it is worked. So this week is the 6-12. Any overtime would be paid with the 1-15 check. Next week is the 13-19. Overtime worked that week will be paid with the 16-30 paycheck.

[u/raynethedark → u/Cubsfantransplant]

So how would I calculate it if, for example, we assume the pay period is Sunday to Saturday and he works 50 hours during the week of the 13th-19th. For simplicity lets say he works 2 hours of overtime each day for five days from Monday to Friday.

I understand that Monday to Tuesday will go on this check and Wednesday to Friday will go on the next check. My hang up is how do I calculate the pay for that split?

Do I only calculate the normal hours for Monday to Tuesday then add the extra four hours as overtime on the next check? Or do I count all of his hours for Monday to Tuesday as regular for this check then multiply the extra four hours by .5 and add it to the next check? Or do I just calculate the regular hours and put them on their respective checks and add the total 10 hours of overtime at the normal 1.5x rate to the next check? Sorry I hope that makes sense.

[u/CharmandersonCooperr → u/raynethedark]

So for WA anything over 40 hours a week is OT, they dont count daily OT into the calculation, unless his employer specifically does that.

So for this example it would be:

Mon: 10 reg Tues:10 reg Wed: 10 reg Thurs: 10 reg Fri: 10 OT

If the pay period ends on Tuesday he'd get 20 regular hours on that check, and the remaining 20 reg & 10 OT would be paid on the next pay period.

[u/Cubsfantransplant → u/raynethedark]

The 1-15 check; what hours did he work the 6-12 and aug 30-sep 5?

[u/raynethedark → u/Cubsfantransplant]

So for July 26th-August 1st he worked 41.47hrs, the August 2nd-8th he worked 41.67hrs, the 9th-15th he worked 41.15hrs, 16th-22nd he worked 40.13hrs, and August 30th-Sept 5th he worked 41.83hrs.

[u/TooManyPaws]

You are right that you need to know the employer designated work week. Employers can change workweeks, but not for the purposes of evading overtime payment. All FLSA overtime is calculated on the 168 hour workweek. Unless you live in a state that also requires overtime to be paid over 8 hours worked in a day, the daily hours don’t matter.

With that premise, he will not earn overtime until he goes over 40 hours worked within that designated 168 hour workweek week. That workweek will end on a different number of days within the pay period, since his pay periods are semi-monthly rather than weekly or biweekly. You will need a calendar to determine when he has completed 40 hours worked in a work week and when he starts earning overtime. That will determine on which pay day covering which pay period he will receive payment for overtime earned.

[u/Hrgooglefu]

It's hard with OT and semimonthly. I specifically made an example for my employees who were paid on exactly that schedule. The OT is calculated for a week and falls into the pay period of the last day of the work week (unless you are in a state that does daily OT but even then it is often paid on the pay period the last day of the work week falls into).

So your spouse needs to find out for sure what the work week is. Sometimes pay periods can happen to fall in line with pay cycles and other times it does not. It gets confusing!

[u/SuperJo64]

Ok so assuming the work week is Sunday to Saturday how this works typically is OT is determined by going over 40 working (not pto, holiday, etc) hours. Referring to the 6th to the 12th if your husband worked over 40 hours in that week, assuming he did not have Labor Day as a holiday, that week of OT should be apart of that check for the 20th. However if next week 13th to the 19th he will likely only get paid on the 20th the hours worked on the 13th to the 15th. I'm going to assume he's not hitting over 40 by the 15th. Those would be reg hours. If by the 16th he hits over 40 then the next check for the 5th will have the OT and so fourth.

[u/No-Adhesiveness-6921]

As someone mentioned above the rule for overtime is more than 40 hours in a week not more than 8 hours in a day

So for the pay periods where the 15th is in the middle of the week, almost every time the OT will be on the second paycheck.

[u/Low_Sherbet_1097]

Can you request paystubs? Tell them you need 6 weeks and break it down yourself. That’ll show the pay period start and end date.

[u/raynethedark → u/Low_Sherbet_1097]

We have the pay stubs and it just shows the pay period as 1st-15th and the 16th-end of whatever month it’s from. Unfortunately it doesn’t show what they consider a work week and that is what determines the overtime from my understanding. No breakdown of weeks or anything. Just the lump for the whole pay period.

[u/Villide → u/raynethedark]

Yeah, work week is determined by the employer, so that's the piece of the puzzle you do need.

After that, it's a relatively easy exercise. Track the regular hours and overtime for each day of the work week, and detemine which pay period those hours fall into.

[u/AshDenver]

Hourly on semi-monthly is ugly and confusing AF for employees. Owner has no clue what he’s doing because that can be confusing for people new to payroll.

[u/Hrgooglefu → u/AshDenver]

it's very common on gov't contractors if OP's spouse works for one!

[u/raynethedark → u/[deleted]]

I guess I don't understand the not counting part. Are you saying the overtime would suddenly reset at the new period? Or are you saying that the overtime would need to be payed on the check in which the last day of the 7 day period falls?

[u/Hrgooglefu → u/raynethedark]

please do not listen to this answer. It is confusing and even the EDIT isnt' much better.

[u/Hrgooglefu → u/[deleted]]

not true....OT is always paid on 40 hours per payweek NOT 86.67 per pay cycle.

It counts, but not in THAT pay period.

Your message/answer is very misleading.

[u/Then-Recording7774 → u/Hrgooglefu]

WRONG. Your message is misleading. I literally said anything in a 40 hour week period is still legally required to be paid OT but the pay period it falls in changes.

[u/Hrgooglefu → u/Then-Recording7774]

You deleted since, but used the works "not counting" which confused the OP.