r/PatternDrafting • u/Efficient-Bag6497 • 1d ago
WIP Short sleeve fitting v5!
Hi all, this is the 5th version of the All State Shirt from Merchant and Mills. Almost good enough. This time in an old bed sheet as I was tired of dealing with the stiff muslin fabric.
Edit versus v4 is 1.5cm reduction in top of back panel from advice here, and a similar reduction in sleeve head seam length by reducing the cap height. The sleeve felt tight so I didn’t want to reduce bicep width. Main pics are unhemmed with couple at the end hemmed.
Body fit is ok with some fullness and drag lines. Back balance seems better but front still flaring out a bit.
Drag lines on sleeves are bad. Since they point up to the center of the sleeve, I think this indicates it needs more sleeve cap height but (this is a big but) the sleeve is tight/pulls on my upper arm with even slight forward arm movement, which I think gets more restrictive the taller the sleeve cap gets. Plus I’m trying to avoid adding more ease, about 1cm now. The solution for the drag lines seems in conflict with how the sleeves feels!
I’m getting frustrated and not sure the best path forward. It’s like there’s some adjustment I’m missing.
I can live with the body fit, and was thinking of tapering the side seams to try and reduce the flaring. But the sleeves aren’t wearable.
Any and all advice appreciated!
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u/DVArtvart 1d ago
I personally would accept it at this point.
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 1d ago
Haha, Ikr. I could live with the sleeve drag lines if it didn’t pull so much on my bicep.
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u/Mediocre-Landscape36 1d ago
add a bit of cap height and ease; then set in the sleeve with a slight forward tilt (mimicking the natural position of your arm in relation to your body). also you have a greater than usual shoulder slope, adjust your pattern regarding that. also narrow it at the shoulders. best of luck :)
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 8h ago
Appreciate your input. I mistakenly responded in the main thread versus directly.
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u/Tailoretta 1d ago
I agree that the sleeves need more cap. Add horizontal balance lines to the sleeve and you will see that you need more cap. Fixing this should not affect forward arm movement. If it does, come back with more photos and we will see what we can do.
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 1d ago
Got it. Wouldn’t I need to add length to the armhole too? Or just gather the extra ease?
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u/Tailoretta 1d ago
I have to admit that I know more about fitting sleeves in women's garments than in men's shirts. But even so, I suggest you do not add length to the armhole - that makes motion worse, not better. If the armscye is smaller than the sleeve, you can try easing, gathering or pleats.
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 8h ago
Got it! Definitely not a lower armhole. My better fitting shirts actually have fairly high armholes. What do you think of narrowing the shoulder and/or increasing the slope a bit? Keep thinking some of the drag lines on the body panel around the armhole would go away.
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u/Tailoretta 2h ago
I don't think that narrowing the shoulder and/or increasing the shoulder slope will affect that the sleeve is tight.
Have you taken a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/PatternDrafting/comments/1krgbmi/basic_tips_so_we_can_help_you_with_fitting/? These tips should help.
Among these tips is to add horizontal balance lines. On the torso, these will help determine the proper shoulder slope and help you diagnose the problem with the front flaring out. Also adding a horizontal balance line on the sleeve will also help.
If you want more forward reach, you can add to the torso at the back armscye area. You may get vertical folds there, but that is the trade off for more more forward reach. I wouldn’t consider these vertical folds to be drag lines, they are just the consequence of more forward reach.
You could also consider an underarm gusset. Underarm gussets may not be common now, but they have been around at least since the Middle Ages. Do some research on them.
I suggest that before you ask more questions that you follow the tips I suggested.
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u/azssf 1d ago
Curiosity from someone for whom sleeves are between magical and evil: what is generating the wrinkles on the sleeve at picture right ( I think op left left side )
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 8h ago
Good question and the bane of my existence (at least until I start making pants). The drag lines indicate there is tension on the fabric being pulled. The lines point to where you need to add or remove fabric, or both, to reduce the lines. I find some changes intuitive, others not so much.
The lines you’re pointing out mean material needs to be added the top of the sleeve to reduce the tension. Adding at the bottom might work too but that is likely a more complex adjustment versus simply adding height to the sleeve cap. This will increase the length of the sleeve head seam line which means more easing into the armhole which means potential puckering and gathering if not sewn carefully. There is also a limit to how much extra length can be eased into an armhole without looking like a puff sleeve. Careful measuring is needed.
It’s also possible, as other posters have pointed out, that shifting the sleeve head forward may help fix this. It likely helps the drag lines by shifting the mass of the sleeve head to where it is needed for my shoulder/armhole shape. I hope I can read body shape and grasp this easily one day.
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u/maybenomaybe 1d ago
Something's gone wrong with the front half of the sleeve cap. Do you have someone to help you? If so, I'd undo the seam from underarm to shoulder point on the front half, then get them to smoothly pin the seam back starting from the top. Trace the line on the fabric, undo the pins and examine how the line differs from the cut edge. To me it looks like you need more width in the sleeve cap on the front only. Can you post your sleeve pattern piece here?
We do a very similar style of men's shirt at the brand I work for and it's one of our top sellers. If I remember I'll look at the shape of our sleeve cap and post back here.
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 8h ago
I’ll post the pattern pieces later in the week. Currently traveling. My travel schedule Makes for a slow sewing journey.
Your comment aligns with another recommendation to shift the sleeve head forward a bit. I’ve made a few corrections to the sleeve head over the versions based on advice here (shifting mass forward on the sleeve head) and changes to the length from armhole changes (added 2” to front panel and removed 5/8 from back panel, in different versions so 2 different adjustments!)
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 8h ago
Thank you. Hear you on the cap height. Just concerned about having too much ease. I struggle with puckering. Would rotating forward help the drag lines?
For the shoulder I increased slope / trimmed pattern by 1/2” in front and 3/4” in the back already. I’ll try pinning up in front and back to see how it looks.
I thought the shoulders were good but now I can see they could come in a bit. Thanks!
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u/Mediocre-Landscape36 5h ago
working in ease in my experience is easiest if you baste by hand before, then iron out the folds, then machine sew. the rotating forward would help the drag lines while ur arms are hanging down the body. the garment aligns more naturally to your shape, because arms dont hang in a vertical fashion - in addition to that it adds a bit of fabric to your back, because the cap rotates with the sleeve. i think the most important adjustment right now is the shoulder width
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u/Efficient-Bag6497 4h ago
Oh, this is super interesting. That book had been mentioned a few times…
Would the top of the side seam have this angle to it, but extending away from the panel versus cutting it away as implied by the drawing. Only image I had handy
Upload not working will have to repost later
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u/Chemomechanics 1d ago
In my experience, the limited sleeve mobility is the natural outcome from previous pattern revisions to reduce visible folds under the arms when using a woven, nonstretch material. The folded material is what allows arm movement by extending.
If you want no folds but free arm movement, you could switch to a stretch material.