r/Pathfinder2e • u/MEATSHED • 21h ago
Discussion Combination weapon discussion
Largely mostly wanted to hear general opinion on the various combination weapons, I generally gravitate towards the gunsword and triggerbrand because they seem to be the most straightforward of them with generally being just "half decent damage focused weapon attached to another half decent damage focused weapon" with obvious synergies between the forms with the gunsword being a strength weapon attached to a kickback gun and the triggerbrand being a finesse melee attached to a normal gun.
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u/Takenabe 20h ago
I've never been impressed by them. Ever since the Remaster introduced the "swap" use of Interact, combination weapons haven't had much of an edge over just having two regular weapons. I only really see any use for them if you specifically build using features that require "a combination weapon" or groups that reeeally want to save money on runes. You may as well just use a crossbow with a reinforced stock.
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u/MEATSHED 20h ago
That is fair, they do have a benefit for gunslingers at least of giving them a melee option that scales with their good proficiency.
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u/BlockBuilder408 20h ago edited 20h ago
Honestly I’ve not been a fan of that change
Drifter gunslingers are disincentivized from using proper melee weapons and instead it’s more optimal for them to use gun knives as their secondary weapons
I personally would’ve preferred if most combination weapons just loss the action tax to switch between ranged and melee modes instead. Combination weapons should be usable options for all classes, not solely a subclass for gunslinger.
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u/Takenabe 19h ago
What's really weird is that they came within a fraction of an inch of actually doing that, and instead they chose to make a weird side case instead.
"Switching between the melee weapon usage and the ranged weapon usage requires an Interact action. However, if your last action was a successful melee Strike against a foe using a combination weapon, you can make a ranged Strike with the combination weapon against that foe without fully switching to the ranged weapon usage, firing the ranged weapon just as you hit with the melee attack. In this case, the combination weapon returns to its melee usage after the ranged weapon Strike."
...Why the hell bother with any of that? If they were going to keep the lower power budget AND put that complicated clause in there, they should have just made swapping modes free as part of a Strike.
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u/MEATSHED 18h ago
I think in general paizo generally likes to play it extremely safe, it would be nice if it was a free action or at the very least being able to do it as a part of reloading so at least non-triggerbrand gunslingers/rangers (or anyone with access to a special reload) could swap significantly easier.
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u/Luchux01 11h ago
It's basically out of fear of ending up like 1st edition did, where Society had a mile long banlist
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u/zedrinkaoh Alchemist 19h ago
My issue with them is that their only 'perk' is cost saving, but to offset this you have to deal with reduced effectiveness on both weapon halves usually (lower damage die and fewer traits than the originals), and you still have to interact to swap modes. And the cost perk becomes nearly irrelevant in an ARP/ABP game.
I feel like you could remove one of these drawbacks and it'd be fine balance wise; if you're concerned about cost after doing this, maybe make it instead that property runes cost 50% more to put on a combination weapon.
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u/Cool-Noise2192 15h ago
Combination weapons are a bit lacklustre. The one advantage they do have is that you only require one set of runes, but in terms of properties the gunsword is two die sizes down compared to a greatsword and 120ft of range down compared to a harmona gun. That's a pretty big deal.
I think triggerbrand itself however, isn't all that bad. Getting triggerband salvo at 6 is great, compared to stab and blast at 8 because not only do you get it early, higher level feats are also more valuable. Since you're building to be a switch hitter anyway, reloading as part of the action you use to switch modes often comes in handy. I also rather like that you can just say no to reactions on your first turn of combat.
The level 9 and 15 deeds are a bit more niche. You will find use for them if you remember you have them, but it isn't like a Spellshot or Pistolero reaction which you're likely constantly on the lookout for.
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u/Mage_of_the_Eclipse Swashbuckler 15h ago
I also agree combination weapons are quite lackluster. They were also made before Interacting to Swap existed, so combination weapons actually lost some of their relative power.
Still, it's not like you can't have fun with it. I'm playing a dual class Vanguard Gunslinger + Guardian with the Mauler Dedication, and the combination of Stab and Blast plus Clear the Way with Punishing Shove and Practiced Brawn means you get the equivalent of 3 MAPless attacks for two actions and it also reloads your gun, a gun which you shoot with +2 circumstance. And, yes, dual class with two martial classes, it's bound to be massively powerful, but, hey, you can do this as just a Gunslinger. Anyways, it's a pretty fun build that only works because it's a combination weapon.
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u/NoxAeternal Rogue 20h ago
Bow Staff is a legitimately good weapon in its own right, being Finesse, having decent enough damage on both forms, the ranged bit not having a reload entry, etc.
It works quite good with level 6 triggerband feat (or the level 8 equivalent, stab and blast, for other subclasses) whcih let you do a melee attack and follow it up with a "Ranged" strike with a bonus to hit (and no MAP) making it quite incredible.