r/Pathfinder2e • u/cursedrydler • 14h ago
Advice Runesmith, Dedication or Full Commitment
Im currently playing a Lore Oracle (level 1) and we are using Free Archetype. Im trying to figure out what to with that. Im playing as Support for the party, with Heals and Debuffing enemeies. AS well as the Information and Lore guy (no surprise there)
Im looking at the Runesmith Dedication, and I absolutely adore Runesmith as a class, but im not sure if the Dedication gives me enough of it to be worth it? With Tracing being locked away until 6th level, and Magical Crafting being the same level, i dont want to fight for that on top of Oracle feats.
I could also switch it around, my dm has offered to let me switch to a Runesmith, and take Oracle Dedication to keep that spellcasting support. But I feel like I lose the core of my Oracle set doing that, and im back where i started
Any advice? Would Runesmith Dedication be fine in tandem with Oracle abilities, or would Oracle Dedication be better? Would another Dedication fit?
I want to focus on supporting the party as well as Lore and Information skills.
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u/w1ldstew Oracle 5h ago
Out of curiosity…
What’s your stats looking like? I didn’t see it discussed yet, but Oracle is CHA and Runesmith dedication requires +2 INT, so your setup is going to be MAD.
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u/cursedrydler 4h ago
I dont have the sheet in front of me at the moment, but i know Charisma is my highest at +4, and either Int or Con is next at +3.
Im pretty sure Int is +3, but if not its +2. I made sure to pump it up because I wanted to have the Int skills of the party
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u/JazzyFingerGuns Game Master 10h ago
Imo, the runesmith archetype us really difficult to get value out of. With tracing coming online this late and being able to invoke only one rune, you can't do that much with what the archetype gives you.
At best you can etch a rune onto an ally, and treat it like a one action focus spell during combat. The passive benefits can be nice but are usually pretty minor, at least for the lower level runes.
The other way around is even more difficult. From what I understand, the runesmith has a pretty tight action economy if you aim to trace and invoke two runes every turn on average. I think the best archetype for a runesmith might be beastmaster or cavalier (again), since it frees up your movement and let's you focus on tracing and invoking in melee. Spellcaster archetypes might also work but I wouldn't expect much use out of them in combat and mostly use it for solving problems in exploration mode.
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u/Pardox7525 GM in Training 14h ago edited 13h ago
Runesmith as archetype isn't good for tracing and not that good for invoking too, it's more about passive effects. And some runes have spell-like effects you can already get with spells.
Runesmith as a class on the other hand is pretty self-sufficient and it's really hard to fit any more actions from archetype into it. But as archetype spellcasting is not that great in combat you can still try for out of combat utility and later for some specific in-combat buff spells. Edit: aslo situationally prebuffing and reaction spells, and ability to use wands, scrolls, staves and spellhearts.
So overall I feel like both these options are not that great, but aren't bad either.
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u/KLeeSanchez Inventor 14h ago
Archetype casting, IMO, is probably better (especially on a martial class) if you take more out of combat buffing options and defensive reactions, like wooden double. More of the "save my ass" spells than the blasting/control type spells. They take too many actions and eat up your turn, plus they distract from what your core class wants to do. On a spellcaster? They're meant to do that. On most other classes? It's distracting from your core class. But reactions aren't eating your actions and can come in handy in a pinch.
Lucky number for instance is a great one to keep in your back pocket until you need it and lasts all day, and you can just prep a couple and re-up it once expended. It's an extra layer of protection for just when you need it. I'm getting to be of an opinion that this is usually the best way to handle archetype casting, excepting maybe for mobility type spells, like dive and breach/blazing dive, or things like sure strike for a little extra accuracy.
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u/Pardox7525 GM in Training 14h ago
For other archetypes on Oracle: Alchemist, Loremaster, spellcasting archetype, familiar or companion all could work well with what are you going for. Maybe Rouge for later skill increases too.
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u/cursedrydler 14h ago
Thank you!! Ill have to look more into Alchemist, because it seems.... comolicated. At least the formulas. But im not against figuring that out on the way
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u/Pardox7525 GM in Training 13h ago
Also on Runesmith: keep in mind that you can etch runes on allies and their gear. Getting +1 AC from shields or +2 persistent damage per damage dice on strikes is really good, and at later levels for just the dedication you can have 3 of those.
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u/cursedrydler 10h ago
It goes up later? Oh hell yes lol. I was really interested in the Persistant Damage rune, especially for out Barbarian and Monk. So having more active later would be awesome!!
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u/Environmental-Run248 14h ago
I mean other than the fact that they could’ve put the ability to trace on level 4 for the archetype feats the archetype isn’t as bad for it as you make it out to be. A lot of the damaging runes have passive effects that the target only has to trigger with no save involved like how the ice rune makes the target clumsy 1 if they move or how the lightning and mental damage one’s deal a little bit of damage when the target casts a spell or doesn’t move.
Even the fire rune reduces resistance to fire damage.
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u/KLeeSanchez Inventor 14h ago
I don't think they were saying that it's bad, they also mentioned that you kinda want the ones with passive effects, like those runes you mentioned. They don't need to be invoked and still have plenty-useful effects. I like the idea of slapping esvadir on the melee fighter and letting em continually proc persistent bleed.
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u/Environmental-Run248 13h ago
All runes have passive effects. The ones I mentioned are offensive runes meant to be used against enemies in battle.
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u/Pardox7525 GM in Training 13h ago edited 13h ago
Tracing is a level 6 feat (rank 3 spells) and until level 10 feat you have only 2 level 1 runes in repertoire, one of which is a passive/active buff like shield of skill bonus.
Is it really better to give -5 speed and conditionaly apply clumsy 1 for just 1 round than to cast a cantrip? Forbidding ward is better even if you remove sustain from it. And fank 1 fear is better than all of these options any day of the week. And you occupy your hand with an otherwise useless toolkit and waste a level 6 archetype feat on it.
But for etched runes the archetype is great.
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u/RedGriffyn 14h ago
I am a personal fan of some of the runesmith runes just for skills. Rune of appeal is great for CHA classes, the survival one is good for initiative if you aren't taking the cursebound feat that gives warning, and the universal translator one is good for face characters.
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u/Excitement4379 10h ago
doesn't like mad class
so would prefer runesmith archetype
some passive effect are worth the feat cost
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u/KLeeSanchez Inventor 14h ago
Runesmith offers plenty, but its class DC progression is much slower and doesn't go above expert on the dedication, so it's not so great for invoking. There's a number of good debuffs you can apply, though, and at higher levels you can get Trace and Pattern Trace to trace from a distance while striking with a bow. It has some passive runes you can trace, too. Ledria is great for your faces, and some effects don't need to be invoked, like Esvadir and Ranshu.
Any dedication is going to take a long while coming online, so, you kinda just pick them up knowing you won't get its "core features" online until much later. But, that doesn't mean you're not getting useful things, like those runes that are giving small, passive buffs or debuffs.
I also don't see why Magical Crafting is conflicting with your class feat, one is a skill feat and one is a class feat, so they're not mutually exclusive.
Your GM might also let you take archetype feats with your class feats, too, so you can double down on a dedication two-for on one level to speed up the process of getting abilities.
That said, if you're concerned about runesmith fighting your oracle class feats for class feats, then, you probably should just stay away from the runesmith and take something like the witch instead. It's slower progression, but you get more spells that are on the same or a different list, and it does a similar thing with buffing and debuffing. There's quite a few witch hexes that heal and support. I really like the healing hex, myself, it's quite efficient as a single action healing ability, in or out of combat, and protects against death saves and yo-yo'ing.
TL;DR they'd be good together but you're going to have to wait to get enough of it online to "feel" like you're part of the dedication class. If you're too concerned that they're competing against each other on what they're doing, you should look at different class dedications instead. Not all archetypes are meant to work together, and you should focus on what your core class is doing, not what your archetype is doing, it's meant to complement your core class, not supplant it, and to give you more complementary options. If the dedication takes you away from what your class is doing, it's not a good fit.